I just picked up 3.2 acres and had to pay more than I wanted for it. I want to keep the view from my house untouched, but to recoup some of the cash, I'd consider having some loggers in to selectivly cut some of the more valuable trees. Any idea what trees are worth? I've no idea if its $19 for a big one or $350... If I could get $10,000 back I would do it. I probably wouldn't want them in there messing it up for $3000.
What are trees (lumber) worth?
- Thread starter r0GuE
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Youare
Platinum Member
The value of your trees is very dependant on the type and quality of the wood. Around here the market has some bearing on prices paid.
My quess is that your 3.2 acres will not produce the $10,000 amount you would like unless you have a grove of black walnut or something like that.
Your county or state may have a forester with an extension service who would inspect your timber and give you a ball park idea if your plan would work or not.
Randy
My quess is that your 3.2 acres will not produce the $10,000 amount you would like unless you have a grove of black walnut or something like that.
Your county or state may have a forester with an extension service who would inspect your timber and give you a ball park idea if your plan would work or not.
Randy
MadReferee
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I had 8 of my 10 acres selectively cut a few years ago. It was mostly white pine anywhere from 12"-24" in diameter with some large red oak and other hardwoods mixed in. The price I got was totally dependent on what the various sawmills and electric plants were paying per board foot. Each type of tree has a different value depending on its diameter and length and straightness, etc.
You should contact a few local loggers and have them quote you a price. Here in New Hampshire, the logger has to give you a copy of the sawmill paperwork indicating how much wood was transported to the mill. The logger then pays the property owner, then the property owner pays the 10 percent timber tax to the town that issued the cutting permit. The town can also tell you the current going rate for different types of wood as the state publishes the current averages.
I had prime timber and got over $20,000 before tax.
You should contact a few local loggers and have them quote you a price. Here in New Hampshire, the logger has to give you a copy of the sawmill paperwork indicating how much wood was transported to the mill. The logger then pays the property owner, then the property owner pays the 10 percent timber tax to the town that issued the cutting permit. The town can also tell you the current going rate for different types of wood as the state publishes the current averages.
I had prime timber and got over $20,000 before tax.
Seat_Time
Member
You might want to get a consulting forester...go to either or both of these sites:
www.forestryforum.com
www.arboristsite.com
As mentioned, many factors will go in to the the value of your standing timber: dbh (diameter at breast heigth), type of wood, straightness, accessibility, distance to mill, etc. Check out those two sites, then go to www.woodplanet.com to list your offer to sell. Good luck
www.forestryforum.com
www.arboristsite.com
As mentioned, many factors will go in to the the value of your standing timber: dbh (diameter at breast heigth), type of wood, straightness, accessibility, distance to mill, etc. Check out those two sites, then go to www.woodplanet.com to list your offer to sell. Good luck
BillyP
Veteran Member
Think about the big mess you'll be left with afterwards.
fivestring
Veteran Member
<font color="red">"Think about the big mess you'll be left with afterwards." </font>
Yeah.
And... you might need to buy another tractor to manage the extra 3 acres. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Yeah.
And... you might need to buy another tractor to manage the extra 3 acres. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Ole_Hickory
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How big of diameter are you talking IE: chest high ? I would not cut anything under 22".
What species do you have,Red Oak/White Oak/Hard Maple/Soft Maple?Poplar/Ash/Cherry/Walnut?
On the amount of land you are describing I seriously doubt you would have $10,000 in marketable timber unless you have a fair amount of veneer timber or high grade logs.
As far as the mess goes you would be suprised how fast nature reclaims itself. I have cut/staged etc 37000 board feet on my days off from work with my JD4400 and Fransguard winch,I started out with skidding tongs and converted to the Fransguard winch.
If you are really serious about selling your timber I would talk to a forestry consultant or contact your local department of Agriculture and maybe they could come out and look at your timber and tell you if you have enough marketable timber .
What species do you have,Red Oak/White Oak/Hard Maple/Soft Maple?Poplar/Ash/Cherry/Walnut?
On the amount of land you are describing I seriously doubt you would have $10,000 in marketable timber unless you have a fair amount of veneer timber or high grade logs.
As far as the mess goes you would be suprised how fast nature reclaims itself. I have cut/staged etc 37000 board feet on my days off from work with my JD4400 and Fransguard winch,I started out with skidding tongs and converted to the Fransguard winch.
If you are really serious about selling your timber I would talk to a forestry consultant or contact your local department of Agriculture and maybe they could come out and look at your timber and tell you if you have enough marketable timber .
dmccarty
Super Star Member
Rogue,
Get a forester that works for YOU to come out and give you a price. DONT ask a logging company. Don't even think about that as an option. Get a forester.
If these are hardwoods they will have to be really big and good quality to make lots of money on that size lot. If they are big pine trees you might have a chance at least from the timber market I have seen here in my area of NC.
Get a forester. Talk to the state Forestry people as well. They should have info about all of timbering. NC has a hotline set up they will provide the market price of timber over the previous thee months. If your state has this then you might get a quick questimate for you trees.
Later,
Dan McCarty
Get a forester that works for YOU to come out and give you a price. DONT ask a logging company. Don't even think about that as an option. Get a forester.
If these are hardwoods they will have to be really big and good quality to make lots of money on that size lot. If they are big pine trees you might have a chance at least from the timber market I have seen here in my area of NC.
Get a forester. Talk to the state Forestry people as well. They should have info about all of timbering. NC has a hotline set up they will provide the market price of timber over the previous thee months. If your state has this then you might get a quick questimate for you trees.
Later,
Dan McCarty
Tom_Trees
Bronze Member
It's like they say -- depends.
I've had three outfits ask to walk my lot (4.5 acres) to quote; two of them actually did. one was 20 trees, $3600. The second came up with 20 trees at $3850. Three months later, the second guy was back -- he had a crew in the area and was willing to do $5000 for the 20 trees.
I took him up on it. 20 black cherry, 20 to 26 inches in diameter going off to be used for veneer somewhere.
He said I've another 8 or 9 trees that will be worth looking at in another six to ten years.
Anyway -- about $250 a tree in my case, and I've still got the tops. I wasn't around when they did the cutting, but it looks like they chunked the trees into roughly 9 foot sections based on what got left.
Tom
I've had three outfits ask to walk my lot (4.5 acres) to quote; two of them actually did. one was 20 trees, $3600. The second came up with 20 trees at $3850. Three months later, the second guy was back -- he had a crew in the area and was willing to do $5000 for the 20 trees.
I took him up on it. 20 black cherry, 20 to 26 inches in diameter going off to be used for veneer somewhere.
He said I've another 8 or 9 trees that will be worth looking at in another six to ten years.
Anyway -- about $250 a tree in my case, and I've still got the tops. I wasn't around when they did the cutting, but it looks like they chunked the trees into roughly 9 foot sections based on what got left.
Tom
MadReferee
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I just went back and looked at what was cut on my 8 acres and how much it was worth in January 2001.
Best White Pine (over 16' lengths) was $140
medium white pine (12'-16' lengths) was $95
average white pine (8'-12') lengths was $65
Red oak was $350
beech, hemlock was $75
ash, maple was $150
birch was $175
pallet wood was $50 and was mostly the bigger branches and smaller diameter trees
All prices are per 1000 board feet.
I had cut about 151,000 board feet of timber, with an average price of $138 per 1000 board feet, and left plenty of trees standing. The logger made a moderate mess but most of it was cleaned up and sent to an electric plant as pallet wood.
As others have suggested, get a professional logger or a professional forest person to evaluate and quote on what you have. Then get more than one opinion/estimate as they will vary considerably depending on who they sell the timber to and what their overhead is. My original estimate was only about 2/3 of what was actually cut.
One more thing, if you do have it cut make sure you get a bill of lading from the logger and the actual sawmill receipts to make sure you are not getting shorted. It happens. This is required by law in some states. Do not have your timber cut on a per tree basis. You will get screwed price wise.
Also some states require a permit to be issued to harvest timber. I do not know about PA but NH does. Since the state may get to tax your profits, receipts are really necessary. This will tend to keep the licensed loggers honest.
You might be surprised at how much you actually have. Good luck.
Best White Pine (over 16' lengths) was $140
medium white pine (12'-16' lengths) was $95
average white pine (8'-12') lengths was $65
Red oak was $350
beech, hemlock was $75
ash, maple was $150
birch was $175
pallet wood was $50 and was mostly the bigger branches and smaller diameter trees
All prices are per 1000 board feet.
I had cut about 151,000 board feet of timber, with an average price of $138 per 1000 board feet, and left plenty of trees standing. The logger made a moderate mess but most of it was cleaned up and sent to an electric plant as pallet wood.
As others have suggested, get a professional logger or a professional forest person to evaluate and quote on what you have. Then get more than one opinion/estimate as they will vary considerably depending on who they sell the timber to and what their overhead is. My original estimate was only about 2/3 of what was actually cut.
One more thing, if you do have it cut make sure you get a bill of lading from the logger and the actual sawmill receipts to make sure you are not getting shorted. It happens. This is required by law in some states. Do not have your timber cut on a per tree basis. You will get screwed price wise.
Also some states require a permit to be issued to harvest timber. I do not know about PA but NH does. Since the state may get to tax your profits, receipts are really necessary. This will tend to keep the licensed loggers honest.
You might be surprised at how much you actually have. Good luck.
Ole_Hickory
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</font><font color="blue" class="small">( <font color="blue"> Get a forester that works for YOU to come out and give you a price. DONT ask a logging company. Don't even think about that as an option. Get a forester. </font> )</font>
You are absolutely right !!!
If it is determined he has good marketable timber,he should consider taking bids on the timber as well.
You are absolutely right !!!
If it is determined he has good marketable timber,he should consider taking bids on the timber as well.
rozett
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I agree with Dan. Get a forester not a timber cutter.
We did a major timber harvest last year. I hired a licensed forester to write a Forest Management Plan ($600 but reimbursed 50% from state) and then manage the harvest. He marked every tree that was cut, managed the timber cutter to track process and exactly what was trucked out, and handled all of the paperwork with the cutter and the state. His fee was 10% of the gross take. So his pay is based on how well he tracks the cutter. He even brought in a wildlife biologist from UMaine to advise us on what to do in the deer wintering yard in my northwest corner. Most foresters will walk your property and give you a ballpark on what the value of the timber is.
We did a major timber harvest last year. I hired a licensed forester to write a Forest Management Plan ($600 but reimbursed 50% from state) and then manage the harvest. He marked every tree that was cut, managed the timber cutter to track process and exactly what was trucked out, and handled all of the paperwork with the cutter and the state. His fee was 10% of the gross take. So his pay is based on how well he tracks the cutter. He even brought in a wildlife biologist from UMaine to advise us on what to do in the deer wintering yard in my northwest corner. Most foresters will walk your property and give you a ballpark on what the value of the timber is.
dmccarty
Super Star Member
Rogue,
I don't think I gave enough info. Other peoples posts are jogging my memory....
I hired a Forester. I talked to a couple people and went with a man my father in law had used. This guy had to travel a good two hours to get to my place but he did it. His cut on all of this was 10%. I might have gotten a lower percentage depending on the value but since at least I had a reference on this guy and he had to travel I was ok with 10%.
What did the 10% buy me? Well he, his son, and a hired hand came out and cruised the land. They marked each marketable tree at the stump and at chest high on the tree. The provided me with a list of how many 1000 board feet I had per tree diameter and species. This inventory was then mailed out to something like 30-40 timber buyers. We had a closed bid sale on the property based on the inventory. Strange to have this much money based around on the back of a pick up truck! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
He also UNMARKED some trees on some parts of the property we decided to keep untouched.
He also watched over the timber operation when it occured. In NC it standard to give the loggers up to two years to timber the trees. If they don't take the trees in two years the trees are yours even though they already paid you the money.
Your Department of Forestry should be able to give advice on all of this as well. They should have standard contracts. In NC there is a "book" of standard logging practices. Mentioning this "book" in the contract locks the logger into certain things.
Lets talk taxes. Timber taxes are as clear as mud. There is a book on the Internet written by a couple professors who helped write the timber tax code. They did this back in the 40s. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
The NC Extension Office has classes on Timber Taxes. You might want to see if you state has them as well.
Taxes, at least the way I understand Timber Taxes, is calculated on the difference in the value of the trees at the date of sale minus the value of the trees when you bought them. I'm sure you did a timber cruise when you bought the land right?
/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Your Forester can determine what your basis is years after the fact if they have to since there are standard practices to determine the growth of the trees over time.
If you bought the trees recently you don't have much to worry about.
I got lucky and managed to time the market in our favor. I THINK we got about $400 per 1000 board feet for both oak and pine.
Later,
Dan McCarty
I don't think I gave enough info. Other peoples posts are jogging my memory....
I hired a Forester. I talked to a couple people and went with a man my father in law had used. This guy had to travel a good two hours to get to my place but he did it. His cut on all of this was 10%. I might have gotten a lower percentage depending on the value but since at least I had a reference on this guy and he had to travel I was ok with 10%.
What did the 10% buy me? Well he, his son, and a hired hand came out and cruised the land. They marked each marketable tree at the stump and at chest high on the tree. The provided me with a list of how many 1000 board feet I had per tree diameter and species. This inventory was then mailed out to something like 30-40 timber buyers. We had a closed bid sale on the property based on the inventory. Strange to have this much money based around on the back of a pick up truck! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
He also UNMARKED some trees on some parts of the property we decided to keep untouched.
He also watched over the timber operation when it occured. In NC it standard to give the loggers up to two years to timber the trees. If they don't take the trees in two years the trees are yours even though they already paid you the money.
Your Department of Forestry should be able to give advice on all of this as well. They should have standard contracts. In NC there is a "book" of standard logging practices. Mentioning this "book" in the contract locks the logger into certain things.
Lets talk taxes. Timber taxes are as clear as mud. There is a book on the Internet written by a couple professors who helped write the timber tax code. They did this back in the 40s. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
The NC Extension Office has classes on Timber Taxes. You might want to see if you state has them as well.
Taxes, at least the way I understand Timber Taxes, is calculated on the difference in the value of the trees at the date of sale minus the value of the trees when you bought them. I'm sure you did a timber cruise when you bought the land right?
/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Your Forester can determine what your basis is years after the fact if they have to since there are standard practices to determine the growth of the trees over time.
If you bought the trees recently you don't have much to worry about.
I got lucky and managed to time the market in our favor. I THINK we got about $400 per 1000 board feet for both oak and pine.
Later,
Dan McCarty
MadReferee
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I did not use a forrester or any other third party. I marked which trees I wanted cut since it was pretty obvious which ones had to go. Why pay 10% ($2000 in my case) for something I could do myself. In fact, my town's forest agent will do it for free if asked.
Also, in New Hampshire, the timber tax is paid on the value of the timber when it is cut. The towns use the state averages for the type of wood to calculate the tax. It is up to you, the landowner, to dispute their numbers. I know, because I did.
The timber harvesting permit, which list the amount of timber to be cut by species, is only good for one year.
As always, your state's mileage may vary.
Also, in New Hampshire, the timber tax is paid on the value of the timber when it is cut. The towns use the state averages for the type of wood to calculate the tax. It is up to you, the landowner, to dispute their numbers. I know, because I did.
The timber harvesting permit, which list the amount of timber to be cut by species, is only good for one year.
As always, your state's mileage may vary.
