What an I doing wrong with my FEL?

[penokee]

Have a L3130 HST with LA 723 FEL. I like it, but when driving into a large pile of dirt, as noted in the attached picture, the engine will die out unless I put in the clutch. I then let out the clutch and can curl it and start to lift and it's ok. Newbie at this Live Hydraulics Loader thing, so probably doing something wrong.
penokee /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Digging into compacted or settled dirt is tough, especially with sod on it. It is one of the hardest types of FEL maneuvers to master (I'm still learning too). Keep your RPMs up when you do it, I run mine at PTO speed or higher. Also practice pushing into the pile and manipulate the loader at the same time. It is hard to explain, but you need to be doing both at the same time, once you get the hang of it, you will see that it can be done. It will never be easy because you will be pushing the loader and the tractor to its capacity limits, but you'll soon get the hang of it if you manipulate the loader while you are driving into the pile.

 

[penokee]

Thanks Bob. I didn't have anything to compare to. Evidently I need more seat time practicing the loading and curl part.
penokee /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[btolle]

I never use the clutch in that type situation. Simply let off of the HST pedal as you are moving into the pile. You need to be moving forward very slowly while lifting and curling the bucket all at the same time. Lo range helps as does 4WD.

With an HST transmission the only time you need the clutch is when shifting the PTO into gear. Occasionally I use it if the Hi/Lo range selector is hard to move. A clutch is almost counterproductive on an HST transmission if you are an old gear shifter because you will still instinctively reach for the clutch when you slow down. Don't do it! You need to break that habit as soon as you can and you will get more done with less effort. I will not even put my foot on the clutch while driving just to keep myself from using the clutch.

If the dirt is extra hard I sometimes use the lip of the bucket (with the bucket pointed more or less straight ahead) to scrape downward to help break it up. Try different techniques until you find what works best for you and your soil conditions.

A toothbar really comes into it's own when doing something like you picture because the teeth will dig into the dirt easier than the flat lip of the bucket will. The toothbar is also great for scraping the dirt loose, acts like a giant rake. If you are going to be a lot of digging it would be a great investment.

As the operator's manual says, the idea is to move the largest amount of material in a given time period. You may move more if you just get what you can in one quick pass rather than trying to fill the bucket to capacity with every load. It takes a lot of time to back up and hit it again if the bucket is 80% full. The exception to that is if you are carrying the dirt a long way to dump it. Then you need to fill the bucket.

Don't forget to carry the bucket as low as practical when traveling. 600 pounds of dirt 5' in the air is a huge lever with which to turn the tractor over.

Play with the loader valve with no load on it. You should be able to push the handle down and to the left at a 45 degree angle to lift and curl with one movement of the handle rather than curling then lifting. Again, takes some practice but that's what is fun about it.

Have you been baptized with dirt yet? It didn't take me long to figure out that a bucket full to overflowing, bucket curled all the way back, and loader arms at maximum height will get me a face full of dirt every time!

Bill Tolle

 

[shoppintractors]

I'm figuring you have.....

-4 wheel drive engaged.
-Hst is in 'Low' gear.
-counterweight on the 3 point hitch to keep weight (traction) on the rear tires.

I've been known to lift the bucket up over a pile, point the bucket down (slightly forward angle) drive the bucket down, reverse the tractor, continue to lower the bucket and drag the dirt back, breaking loose the dirt from the pile. One word of caution.....when your hydraulic (curl) arms are fully extended is when they are most vulnerable. For example......If you have broken concrete embedded in the pile that the bucket could get hooked on while dragging backward I would be very careful when the curl cylinders are extended (thus the reason for having the bucket angle forward, to prevent it from hooking onto a potential immovable object.)

Don

 

[Alan L.]

Never use your clutch on an HST except to change ranges. When you go into a pile, don't try to pick up the whole pile from the bottom. A few calculations will tell you your loader simply won't pick up that much weight.

What you want to do is hit the bottom but as you move in raise the bucket and curl it back at the same time so that you are in the dirt but following the contour of the pile which is sort of pyramid shaped. If you don't hit it just right and it won't curl or raise, gently rock backward just a little to break it loose and then continue with the bite. You will get used to it with practice.

I think HST gives you a huge advantage working a pile, being able to rock back in a split second.

 

[Egon]

With a pile like that that angle in with only part of the bucket in use and break out the dirt. You can also go to the opposite side and push ftrom the top to loosen things up. Then back up and go for the full load.

Egon

 

[Freds]

Your pushing in on the clutch is giving the tractor a "breather" and letting the engine pick back up from almost dieing out. I don't think there is anything wrong with that, it's better than stalling out, your technique just needs worked on a bit. Letting up on the HST pedal should do the same thing. I don't even think I use the clutch for anything except starting the tractor and using the post hole digger.

Just keep everything moving (curl and lift) as you are slowly driving into the pile. I don't think I run over 2000 RPMs, but if it's a hard, compacted pile, I drop it into low range.
Using the bucket to cut and back drag is a good suggestion as you will always be picking up loose stuff.

 

[chevyorange]

you will have better luck if you break the pile up first. try cutting from an angel 3-6 inchs with corner of bucket pushing it in to a pile that you can scoop.I've done this for years and it also breaks the dirt up more for grading in the long run.It makes life easier on you and your loader.

 

[DannyD]

Are you coming forward on the seat causing the safety cut off to engage, or does this tractor have that? Mine is adjusted so that even a bump will cause me to stall, and it will be changed at the next service, next week. My bucket will not cause the engine to stall, but just wont move when the limit is reached

 

[_RaT_]

Lots of good comments, you do need to learn to work the pedal thats for sure, but what Egon says caught my eye <font color="blue"> With a pile like that that angle in with only part of the bucket in use and break out the dirt. </font> This is very true especially the "break out the dirt part". You do have to break out the dirt, that is, detach the cohesiveness it has to the rest of the pile. Even industrial loaders have trouble simply lifting a load that is not first broken from the pile. Once you master the HST pedal and learn to immediately back off on it as the engine loads, you will be quite happy with its performance, even with the relatively low HP the L3130 has for the equipment it carries. I often let the momentum of the tractor get into a pile of material, and almost at the same time am quickly backing off on the HST all the while curling and then extending and then curling once more the loader bucket. I never leave the pile without the bucket heaped and I need only one shot at it to make this happen. After many thousands of yards of material moved, you get it down. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[L3010Ken]

Your tractor should handle this task easily once you get the hang of it. I have a GST and while I had problems with killing the motor when first trying to coordinate driving, bucket lift and curl, shifting, throttle, etc. . . .after a while it became natural and I could load a 5 yard dump truck in less than 15 minutes with sod laden dirt like you have shown.

After about the 40th dump truck load, I had it down (^8

 

[txdon]

What are you doing wrong?

Whenever that happens to me I am in M range.

Shift to L, increase the gas, decrease the pressure on the HST pedal. When your tires start spinning adjust your bucket for a smaller bite by lifting it up or curling it up to level or a bit higher.

 

[smittyd3]

Be glad you have the LA723. It did me good to read your post.
I have a L3130 GST with the LA513 and I have to keep the momentum up as the some of the other posts have indicated.

I had to get used to the fact that I only have about 30 hp to play with.

Getting used to rollback breakout took a little time.

Part of my problem is I've operated loaders at work for since 1974 and when you get used to a Cat 980B, F or G it takes a while to get used to breaking 2" diameter tree roots with the corner of the bucket toothbar when it seems like you can do it quicker with a mattock or axe.

 

[frank_f15]

Very good explaination, saved me a lot of typing. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Really all he needs is a lottle more seat time, and he will learn you can't lift from the bottom.

 

[Egon]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( )</font> seems like you can do it quicker with a mattock or axe.

That may just be the quickest way. Builds character too! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Egon /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[penokee]

I appreciate all the replies. My former tractor was an AC WD without live hydraulics. I had to drive into the pile, put in the clutch, shift into nuetral so the FEL would operate, lift the load, then go through the shifting thing again to back out, etc.

My left leg was just getting too worn out after a few hours, so that was one of the reasons I convinced mom that I needed an automatic trannie and live hydraulics. Now I have to learn how to use it. She still thinks we should have left the money in the bank so the kids(in their 40,s doing well) would have a little nest egg. Love her dearly - I guess that's how mothers/grandmothers are supposed to be.

Thanks again for the advice - never too old to learn /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
penokee /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Nik]

Two other suggestions would be the use of a toolbar on the bucket to help loosen the soil and wait until after a good rain. Compacted soil may soften up and be easier to dig after a good soaking. I had a large dirt pile to move with my B2410. Waited for a good rain and then in next day or so I was able to easily dig into this compacted weed overgrown pile with ease. This was done without a toothbar.

 

[Lkraus]

I found that the best way to think about an HST is that the "Go" pedal is actually an infinitely variable gear changer. When you put the pedal down you go faster because you are using a higher "gear ratio", not because the engine is running faster. Ease up when the load increases and you are effectively using a lower gear, for more torque. It doesn't seem natural to lift your foot when you are about to stall, but it works.

 

[Mike_C]

Adding a toothbar will make an incredible difference.