What a Joke

[Diamondpilot]

John, I currently have a 7.3L and 2 6.0L PSD. I talked to a guy at Quadzilla, the maker of the chips I run in my trucks. I asked him how they were coming on the new 6.4L's. He said that all the new clean diesels gave them headaches they were trying to work around but he said they had 3 6.4L test trucks and they all put out about 40hp more than advertised in stock form. He felt there was a safe 200-250 Hp left in these engines at the flywheel and about 150Hp at the rear wheels in stock form.


As for the torque shift being a weak link I saw a 2004 F-250 2 wheel drive 6.0L that was running in the 12 sec bracket at the drag strip last summer. It was stock except for the injectors, turbo, chip, exhaust, and few other tricks like propane and nitrous. He was well in excess of 850 Hp. This was the guys daily driver also with nearly 80,000 miles on it then.

Chris

 

[bota7800]

Bota7800,

Word has it that Toyota will offer a dually with an 8.0L Hino diesel and six speed Eaton transmission, NOT an Allison, in 1-2 years. It will be rated at 300 hp and 600 pound feet of torque in initial form, likely more based on current competition. I have seen a picture. It looks a little funny but was unpainted to give it the industial look, so with paint it might look fine.

John M

John,

The one at the Stock Show was painted some sort of gray. It was one of those coatings that are intentionally flat and industrial looking (I don't know the right term)

 

[tlbuser]

Bota7800,

Word has it that Toyota will offer a dually with an 8.0L Hino diesel and six speed Eaton transmission, NOT an Allison, in 1-2 years. It will be rated at 300 hp and 600 pound feet of torque in initial form, likely more based on current competition. I have seen a picture. It looks a little funny but was unpainted to give it the industial look, so with paint it might look fine.

John M

PickupTruck.Com - SEMA 2007 - Toyota Tundra Dually Diesel Concept

 

[Robert_in_NY]

PickupTruck.Com - SEMA 2007 - Toyota Tundra Dually Diesel Concept

Are they designing this truck for the camper pulling segment?

Also, what is with the huge wheel wells inside the box? They continue all the way to the front of the box as if it had tandem axles

 

[tlbuser]

Quite possibly. There's a couple more articles in pickuptruck.com about the concept truck. Four leather and suede power captain's chairs, etc., BUT it's a manual tranny ???

 

[TomK]

I saw this at the National Western Stock Show. Cool looking truck, but it was a short bed and the 5th wheel hitch wasn't a slider that I could tell. One sharp turn and CRUNCH!!!

 

[Builder]

Are they designing this truck for the camper pulling segment?

Also, what is with the huge wheel wells inside the box? They continue all the way to the front of the box as if it had tandem axles

Auto show concept trucks are always like that. So few ever see production. I remember Dodge had a concept power wagon back in '99 at the auto show with a Caterpillar diesel and full front & rear lockers. They wouldn't let you up real close to it, but one of my buddies got a look underneath and the driveline wasn't even connected.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Auto show concept trucks are always like that. So few ever see production. I remember Dodge had a concept power wagon back in '99 at the auto show with a Caterpillar diesel and full front & rear lockers. They wouldn't let you up real close to it, but one of my buddies got a look underneath and the driveline wasn't even connected.

I know most concept vehicles are not even close to road legal or even able to run and a lot of them are just the design guys having fun. I was just surprised to see those wheel wells in the box like that. They don't serve any purpose and I don't even think they look good or useable. All they do is push anything you put in the box further to the center making it harder to reach. All I can figure is some kid thought it would look neat as well as the diamond plate with gaps around the wheel well

Speaking of the Dodge with the Cat diesel. I remember about 4 years ago I was at a large farm dealerships spring auction and the local Ford dealer had a beautiful F-650. The only reason I remembered it was it was the first time I noticed the CAT badge on a Ford

 

[Builder]

John, I currently have a 7.3L and 2 6.0L PSD. I talked to a guy at Quadzilla, the maker of the chips I run in my trucks. I asked him how they were coming on the new 6.4L's. He said that all the new clean diesels gave them headaches they were trying to work around but he said they had 3 6.4L test trucks and they all put out about 40hp more than advertised in stock form. He felt there was a safe 200-250 Hp left in these engines at the flywheel and about 150Hp at the rear wheels in stock form."

What do you think he's going to say? "They blow up if you add a 10HP chip"? I mean let's be serious, we're all big boys here. The guy's in business to sell chips, so what else would he say?

BTW: There aren't many engines that don't have "200-250" left in them. It's how long they'll run at an output that high that matters.

"As for the torque shift being a weak link I saw a 2004 F-250 2 wheel drive 6.0L that was running in the 12 sec bracket at the drag strip last summer. It was stock except for the injectors, turbo, chip, exhaust, and few other tricks like propane and nitrous. He was well in excess of 850 Hp. This was the guys daily driver also with nearly 80,000 miles on it then.Chris

So then why does Ford use an allison trans like the one in my pickup in their true medium duty applications and not an in-house Ford Torqshift? They could supply for their own trucks at probably a much lower cost to Ford?

Don't bean counters cut every possible dollar in cost to produce these trucks as cheaply as possible?

 

[bota7800]

PickupTruck.Com - SEMA 2007 - Toyota Tundra Dually Diesel Concept

Yep, that's the one. I did not get close enough to see the weird wheelwells. Maybe they should have Hillsboro or Bradford make a one-off flatbed for it.

 

[Builder]

PickupTruck.Com - SEMA 2007 - Toyota Tundra Dually Diesel Concept

Yep, that's the one. I did not get close enough to see the weird wheelwells. Maybe they should have Hillsboro or Bradford make a one-off flatbed for it.

IMO, what's the big deal? 300HP? 600ftlbs? So what? Not really very attractive truck, either.

I'd rather have a current GM, Ford or Dodge, more power, more gears.

The towing specs are pretty unbelievable. 24,000 lbs. We'll see........

 

[Robert_in_NY]

IMO, what's the big deal? 300HP? 600ftlbs? So what? Not really very attractive truck, either.

I'd rather have a current GM, Ford or Dodge, more power, more gears.

The towing specs are pretty unbelievable. 24,000 lbs. We'll see........

If it does get rated for 24k lbs wouldn't you need a CDL to drive that truck?

I like the looks of this truck better then the current Dodge but it kind of reminds me of that one monster truck with the muscular arms on it. Lots of bulges.

I still like the design of the Ford and GMC best though.

 

[Builder]

If it does get rated for 24k lbs wouldn't you need a CDL to drive that truck?

I like the looks of this truck better then the current Dodge but it kind of reminds me of that one monster truck with the muscular arms on it. Lots of bulges.

I still like the design of the Ford and GMC best though.

It depends on the GVWR. Let's say the GVWR is 13,000lbs. If the trailer is over 13K, then yes, you'd need a CDL because the combination weighs over 26K AND the trailer is over 10K.

A 24K trailer hitch is ridiculous because if the GCWR is even as high as 26K (like a Ford towboss F-450), then what's the most the truck can tow? Let's say it weighs 8,000 empty. Then max trailer weight would be 18K. Impressive, but nothing that's not already in production here by Ford, GM or DC. The max hitch needed would be an 18K hitch.

I think it's bolted on there to look impressive more than anything.

If for some ridiculous reason, Toyota plans on building a truck that's over 26K GCWR, then anyone who buys one will need a class A CDL to drive it. 26K GCWR is the most logical cutoff.

 

[AGRIMAN]

I don't really want to stir things up so I only have one comment and I'm finished. I believe a man should drive what ever makes him happy. If you don't like it trade.

I don't buy a truck because it pretty, I don't buy a truck because of the way it rides. I buy a truck to work and none of mine (12) are scared of dirt, work or being over loaded.

I wont hide the fact that I'm a FORD man, from my blue blood to the FORD tattoo on my arm. Henry's my hero. I've never owned and hopefully will never be force to own anything else.

The 7.3 is still the benchmark. the 6.0 was a big step backward (truth hurts) Time will tell on the 6.4. It might still be unproven, but it already seems to have a lot of DMAX guys worried. I'm no professional, but I do know a thing or two about building HP and to say that a ford diesel couldn't make a 1000 hp is ridiculous. I could bring up GM's first attempt at a diesel but I wont.

The Allison is a very good transmission, but to suggest that is far superior to the Torqshift is unjustified. Ford probably don't put the Torqshift in the 650 because.. it's A 650? Good or bad at least Ford has a transmission.

I pull to the race almost every weekend with a mixed group of Ford, GM and Dodge. Some guys have made brand changes for different reasons so I do have dissatisfaction stories on both the DMAX and Cummins. I don't care to get into them because I can't see were blasting one man problems solves or proves anything.

I use my FWD often and hard. Sometimes several times a day, sometimes just to get home. A good example would be today. On my way home from town I drove up and Semi Truck that had missed it's intended driveway. The truck in the ditch and the trail blocking the highway. Without hesitation or fear of my weak transmission, insufficient rear axle, poor frame or under sized driveshaft's I turned my nearly 200k 2002 F250 around and hooked to it. The driver ask me if I was sure I wanted to do it, to which I replied... I didn't didn't buy this thing to look at, it will pull you out or die trying. With the BULLY DOG barking and all four 36 inch tires smoking on the payment the poor old under achiever somehow pulled him back up on the highway. Once out the driver said to me. I'm really surprised, there's no question "That dog will hunt"



So now I know it's only because I have a good front axle. YEA RIGHT!



I did ask him around 40k

 

[Builder]

Man, that's a lot of action packed drama in one day. That story sounds like a magazine article. You're my new hero.

I think I had 6 or 7 7.3's and they were good diesels, but they weren't without problems like cackle and powdered metal con rods.

IMO, the benchmark LD diesel is the 5.9L Cummins. Next would be the DMAX, then the 7.3L.

 

[ihookem]

The Tundra can pull 10k easy as can be. My Kubota 7510 pushed 15k in idle once. The add showes towing straight ahead. That's not a good way to rate towing though. Driving down a hill in an s curve somewhere and swaying for a deer or another car is when pull ratings should come in .I think A small truck would sway way too much for it to be safe. Toyota should know better than to advertise something like this. They do a real disservice to unknowing customers that could get in some real trouble, but I'm sure it's a nice truck. I wonder if they could get sued for misleading cutomers if someone gets hurt.

 

[ihookem]

The Tundra can pull 10k easy as can be. My Kubota 7510 pushed 15k in idle once. The add showes towing straight ahead. That's not a good way to rate towing though. Driving down a hill in an s curve somewhere and swaying for a deer or another car is when pull ratings should come in .I think A small truck would sway way too much for it to be safe. Toyota should know better than to advertise something like this. They do a real disservice to unknowing customers that could get in some real trouble, but I'm sure it's a nice truck. I wonder if they could get sued for misleading cutomers if someone gets hurt.

 

[Diamondpilot]

I am not 100% this is true but I was told by the guy I always buy my vehicles off of that the tow rating of anything, small car through lets say one ton truck, has little to do with what it can pull but what it can stop. He says that when a manufacturer builds a vehicle it is give a max GCVWR and those are given a stop rating by the federal government with no trailer brakes. So lets say a truck has a GCVWR of 23,000# than it must stop that much from "X" speed in "Y" distance. He says this is usually the limiting factor, not the engine, rear end, chassis, suspension, ect.

Also here in Indiana you can legally pull a camper or a boat with a vehicle and be over the 26,000# rule without a CDL. The exemption actually states a "Individuals: Operating motor homes or other vehicles used exclusively to transport personal possessions or family members, for non-business purposes."

I know it is stupid but this was done as a matter of politics since over half of the camper manufactures are located here and quite a few large boat manufactures are also. People will not buy them if a CDL is needed. Of course all specifications of the tow vehicle must be observed. Its not fair that a guy can take off in his one ton dually towing his tri axle 5th wheel tow hauler with a GVWR of 21,000# and dually with a GCVWR of 33,000# like the new 2008 F-450 PSD but a guy can not tow his backhoe or tractor of similar weight even if its not for hire. There is also no CDL need for farm related use if its within 100 miles of the farm. Lots of people get away with this buy getting farm plates.

Chris

 

[Builder]

I am not 100% this is true but I was told by the guy I always buy my vehicles off of that the tow rating of anything, small car through lets say one ton truck, has little to do with what it can pull but what it can stop. He says that when a manufacturer builds a vehicle it is give a max GCVWR and those are given a stop rating by the federal government with no trailer brakes. So lets say a truck has a GCVWR of 23,000# than it must stop that much from "X" speed in "Y" distance. He says this is usually the limiting factor, not the engine, rear end, chassis, suspension, ect.

That's correct. A 210 HP F-650 is rated to legally pull 30,000 lbs off the back of the frame, but today's one ton pickups with 360HP are rated to tow a lot less.

Towing weight actually has little to do with power of the engine. It has more to do with a blend of factors, some as "minor" as the strength of the emergency brake. Ratings of tires, springs, axles capacities, brake diameters, etc. all are contributing factors.

"Also here in Indiana you can legally pull a camper or a boat with a vehicle and be over the 26,000# rule without a CDL. The exemption actually states a "Individuals: Operating motor homes or other vehicles used exclusively to transport personal possessions or family members, for non-business purposes."

I know it is stupid but this was done as a matter of politics since over half of the camper manufactures are located here and quite a few large boat manufactures are also. People will not buy them if a CDL is needed. Of course all specifications of the tow vehicle must be observed. Its not fair that a guy can take off in his one ton dually towing his tri axle 5th wheel tow hauler with a GVWR of 21,000# and dually with a GCVWR of 33,000# like the new 2008 F-450 PSD but a guy can not tow his backhoe or tractor of similar weight even if its not for hire. There is also no CDL need for farm related use if its within 100 miles of the farm. Lots of people get away with this buy getting farm plates.Chris"

Same in my state. If you have RV tags on a motorhome, you can legally exceed 26K. It's not just IN. In fact, I bet all states have this exemption or every Clark W. Grizwold that rents one to travel around the country with his family would wind-up in jail.

 

[Bird]

You're probably right about all the states having that exemption. In Texas, Chapter 522 of the Transportation Code spells out all those weight limitations, requirements for cdl, etc. and 522.004 Applicability, says in part, This chapter does not apply to . . . a recreational vehicle that is driven for personal use.