Wet areas in yard

[TOMDUALLY]

If it were me I think that I'd wait until next summer as you said you just moved in in november and the wet fall that you all had up there in the northeast I'm suprised that you only found 3 wet/squishy spots. If I did that test on my land I'd have to drain my front yard and back lot. Give it a little time to soak in and drain it self. After spring thaw you will find a lot more soft spots.

 

[bugstruck]

I think Eddie summed it up pretty well. Area 3 is no surprise, as that looks like it's in the floodplain and bordererd on one or two sides by stream, even if it's some distance back. Area 2 is somewhat surprising until Eddie mentioned the dam leaking. Either that or the spring? in Area 1 extends through the pond and resurfaces in Area 2 downgrade. If the dam is not leaking that's the only other cause I can think of. Frankly, Areas 1 and 3 look pretty normal to me.

 

[archerynut]

I am definitely going to wait it out through the spring into the summer to see what those wet areas do. I know for sure that the area above the pond never dries up, my uncle who used to live here told me that they never cut the grass there b/c it is always wet. The other areas that are below the pond I have no history on. MY thoughts right now are to put french drain in the area above the and then see what happens. Going to keep a close eye on what happens with the areas below the pond, could just be form the wet fall and winter that we have had in the northeast.

Next question, the low spot in the dam wall (circled area) needs to be repaired for a number of reasons. Eddie mentioned the erosion and that concerns me but also to make it look good and easy to mow. Any ideas to build that area up?

Had another idea for the area that is wet above the pond. Would it be possible to dig a holding area to collect the ground water, then build a waterfall/rockbed in that area and use a small pump to use that ground water
and water from pond to get water to the waterfall?
Weather is crappy and the thought of projects to do with a soon to be purchased tractor are keeping me occupied.

 

[dqdave1]

In my opinion; #1 can be resolved by french drains ending in pond. Other two can be resolved by french draining them off your grassy area, one to creek in backround and other off into wooded area. I noticed water level and do not see any overflow pipes. It would be wise to install an overflow to allow water to overflow through a pipe to an area off site ( stream) It seemed to be spilling over at variuos spots, which can contribute to the wet areas. This might involve raising areas around the pond to be level at all spots except where the overflow pipe is at . Overflow pipe should be buried below grade; not just laid on ground at lowest spot of pond. Example; Use transit to make pond walls all same height; then decide the height of water level below pond wall height; then plce overflow pipe below height of pond wall; say 12" down. This also makes for a nice looking pond .

 

[EddieWalker]

I think your getting ahead of yourself. First step and the only thing you should do right now is fix the overflow drain. Is there an area that will be lower that does not go over the dam? Was there ever a pipe drain in there?

Just building up the low area will just send the water to another area. You need to have a plan on what to do with the water comeing out of the pond.

If you have such a location, then to fix the overflow on the dam, you need to scrape off the grass and any other plant matter. Add good clean clay in layers and slowly build it up. Dump a load of dirt and spread it out. Drive over it and compact it in as much as possible. It's more important to spread it out thin and drive over it a bunch of times than moving allot of dirt ther all at once. The worse thing you coud do is get a dump truck there to dump a load of dirt that you cannot spread out and compact. That would be very bad.

Your french drain is good for surface water that doesnt drain. It might work in your situation, but I personally think it won't. I think your dam is leaking and that you have bigger issues.

How deep is the water in the pond? How tall is the dam and how side is it? What is the slope of the dam inside and out?

One very common way for dams to leak is for it to travel under the dam and then surface on the other side somewhere down hill. This happens behind the dam and will look just like what you have going on. It's a big job to fix this and not something to rush into.

Wait and see what happens. If it dries up during the heat of summer, then it's not leaking. If it's still wet, you got major issues. Right now we just don't know enough to start guessing what needs to be done.

Eddie

 

[archerynut]

Just realized that you can see the existing overflow pipe in the pond. I am going to take some more pics when I get back from vacation. Definitely going to wait until the summer before doing anything with any one of these areas. The overflow pipe will probably be the first project. New pics will show where the pipe is now.

 

[dillo99]

As far as I know the pond has been here for 25+ years. I am not sure that the circled area is supposed to be a spillway, I think it has eroded like you said and is a weak spot in the dam. I would like to reinforce this area, but not sure of how to do that yet. The white pipe that you see in the back left of the pond is supposed to be the overflow and does work, it is just when the level of the pond gets to the pipe it is also slightly trickling over the circled area also. If I could repair this low spot in the dam wall, I think it;s possible one of the wet spots would dry up. This is all questionable haven;t been here long enough.

WARNING...I am no expert. Listen to Eddie - he knows the most about this stuff.

but...a suggestion/idea...if the overflow is working but the water level reaches the top of the dam before the overflow kicks in, it would seem to me that your overflow is too high. Shortening the pipes (intake and out-take) would lower the water level which would at least help to prevent further erosion at the circle. Just an idea to employ in addition to adding to/repairing the dam.

 

[EddieWalker]

Listen to Eddie - he knows the most about this stuff.

Thank you for the vote of conficence, but I'm far from an expert. I'm just offering an opinion based on a guess that came to me from the pictures. It's very possible and even likely that I'm totaly wrong. It happens allot here, but in being wrong and learning about it, I learn something.

Eddie

 

[archerynut]

Here is the new pond pic that I had promised. The overflow pipe has a white arrrow drawn to it. Hope this gives some more information.

 

[EddieWalker]

The more I see of your dam, the more I question it's strength. The height above the water in several places looks like it's only a few inches. Two feet would be better.

Could the pipe have been bent up at one time?

I think the first thing I'd do is cut that pipe to lower the water level. The lower the better. You can always add to the pipe later on if you raise the dam height, but right now I'd cut that pipe.

Where is the discharge of the pipe? Does it leak along the way? How is the pipe sleeved? A smooth pipe is a guranteed leak. Water will follow the length of the pipe all the way through the dam.

Eddie

 

[archerynut]

I didn't even think of the overflow pipe leaking around it. I haven't gotten in the pond b/c of weather, but it appears that the overflow is just a white 6 inch PVC pipe. Dont know much else about it. The pipe is on an angle that runs through the back side of the pond towards wet area #3. I think that you are correct about leaking around the pipe. On that note how do you replace that pipe with a sleeved pipe without having to drain the pond? Here is another pic with the water level a little bit lower. The pics from before are when we were having some pretty wet weather so levels were up.


I thought that it woudl be better to have an overflow that had a right angle under the water level and then come up perpendicular to the surface of the water with grate over the opening. Forgive my ignorance, don't know much about sleeved pipe, can you elaborate? Thnaks again for all of the insight.

 

[Defective]

I'm sure Eddie & others will shortly chime in to say the same thing so I don't feel quite so bad telling you this...

I'm afraid you'll be draining that pond soon.

That pipe looks like somebody shoved it through the dam to fix an existing problem. There's no doubt in my mind you're getting a lot of leakage around it. An overflow pipe should have a collar to avoid giving the water a straight path along the outside. (I've spent the last 5 minutes searching for an image without luck...darn!)

The good news: If you have to drain it to install a proper overflow pipe, that'll be the perfect time to rework it overall and get any other potential problems solved.

 

[EddieWalker]

To find an "Anti-Seep Collar" go to Conventional Pond Fittings and scroll down until you see it.

I've seen them on Ebay too.

The way they work is to stop the water traveling down the smooth length of the pipe. You need them on all smooth and Corugated pipes. Yes, corugated too. The ones on Ebay are cheaper and home made by building a wood frame and stretching rubber across it. Then putting a small hole in the middle and sliding the pipe through it.

The negative of a collar is getting the soil compacted around it.

On my lake, I put in smooth pipe for a drain, but built a collar from concrete. My reasoning was that the concrete around the pipe would stop the water and accomplish the same job, but compact allot better. I dug a trench under my pipe and build up the sides with dirt. Then I filled with sacks of readi mix concrete. I did this at a joint to help out with an irregular shape in the concrete.

In your case, I'd be very tempted to dig down to the pipe with a shovel and below it, near the water side of the dam, Just the width of the shovel is plenty. Clean off the pipe and fill the trench with sacks of readimix to a foot or so above the pipe. Let it dry and cover the hole.

I agree with Defective that you may very well have to drain the pond and rework it, but only if you get tired of all the wet areas and/or the dam stops holding water and the level begins to drop on you. Until then, we just don't know enough to make a desicion.

One of the best sources for pond building information is http://www.in.nrcs.usda.gov/pdf files/PONDS.PDF and well worth your time reading.

It's good to be doing your research now. When the weather warms up, you can develop a plan and know what to look for.

Eddie

 

[archerynut]

Just thought I would add a new pic. We got a lot of rain over the past day or so and I ended up with a whole new pond in the yard. Actually the two little streams that border my property jumped the banks and ended up in the back yard. Couple of hours later it almost has completely gone away. Nothing down there to get flooded, well except for the deer camera in the woods!!!

 

[archerynut]

Forgot to mention, the low spot in the dam wall only seems to be getting worse with the rains that we are getting. That is going to be first project when I finally get the tractor. I think I am going to try to add to the dam wall and compact with tractor first, we'll see how that works. That low spot is starting to overflow and erode the dam wall further. Should I cut the overflow pipe shorter first to lower the level of the water???

 

[EddieWalker]

Dams fail by a very simple means. Water flows over them and erodes the dirt. Not much at first, but it just keeps getting worse. At some point, it will increase to the point that it will seem to happen all at once. Your pictures shows a dam that's read to fail.

You need to get the water lower. Much lower!!! Then you need to get your drain pipe fixed. These are just the first two steps. From what you have shown, the pond is toast. If you have long terms plans to keep it, I'd drain it and rebuild the dam. It will make for a tough year, but when your done, it will be good for decades.

Have fun,
Eddie

 

[archerynut]

I hate to ask the obvious question but I will. What is the best way to go about draining the pond? Is there any way to preserve the fish that are living in the pond now?

 

[EddieWalker]

You really need to go over to Pond Boss Magazine Home Page! for anything about fish. Do you want the fish that you have in there? Do you even know what species you have and there balance?

As for draining it, the siphon is the cheapest and easiest. What's the biggest hard or firm walled hose that you can get? There is a thread over on pondboss about using corrigated drain hose. That might work, but I've never tried it myself. PVC pipe is very common for this, but you need a way to close the ends and fill the pipe to get rid of the air. Then seal the pipe and open the end in the pond first, then the drain side. If you have the air out, it will drain your pond.

Just adding dirt to your dam still might be a solution, but I think it's just a temporary fix.

Good luck,
Eddie

 

[andrewj]

Archerynut:

I would talk to your local Wetlands Conservation Committee/Commission and/or whoever regulates that kind of thing prior to initiating any project with "wet land". A TBN member named "Timber" had a lot of difficulties with his local inspector types due to property work the previous homeowner did. Jay

Most folks would not consider a "wet spot" in a yard something needing protection as a "wetland." Government, on the other hand, governs. That's what it does. If you ask to be governed, you will be governed....perhaps his state's Department of natural resources would allow common sense to prevail and quiet his concerns....or perhaps they would do what they normally do and screw things up.

So before you call Natural Resources, think again. No good deed.....you know the rest. Ever heard of a door that, once opened, cannot be closed???

 

[thunderworks]

Archerynut: When I built my pond, I was told that the dam needed to be 3' higher than the overflow pipe (at a minimum) and that the spillway area is 2' higher than the overflow pipe . . . as water rises, past the overflow pipe in heavy rain, it will exit via the spillway before it ever crests the top of the dam. Water cresting the top of the dam is an impending disaster. I agree with Eddie, you're in for a significant pond rework.

Good luck with it.