Well Questions

[charliepff]

So,

After 8 years of renting I finally bought a house. It has well for water with the water softener and whole house filter. The problem I have is that both outside faucets are piped in after the well. As you can imagine, pressure is not very high at these faucets at all. I need to clean the gutters and wash the house since we are on a dirt road. So I went and bought a pressure washer. It requires 20psi with 5gpm. I was wondering if I repipe these faucets in before the water softenor will this help my pressure issues and enable me to run the pressure washer? Would I be better adding a holding tank with a small pump work better? Definately not sure on this one. I am also assuming if I do change the faucets to before the water softenor I will need to bleed the air from the system but will I need to do anything else? I do have a pressure tank too. Thanks for the help in advance.

 

[Dmace]

The water softener should be tapped into the cold water line AFTER any water spigots. If this is not the case then it should be changed. Not only will it slow your water pressure but you will be wasting salt and electricity on outside water. After you change that you should have more than enough water pressure for that pressure washer but you should test it to be sure.

 

[rswyan]

The water softener should be tapped into the cold water line AFTER any water spigots. If this is not the case then it should be changed.

I would say that if you change it, set it up so that you can select either hard or soft water ......

Each has their uses and is good for different things: hard water should be fine for watering plants, soft for washing (cars equipment, etc.), and for use with spraying .... if you do that.

 

[Stimw]

I plumbed my house, yard and shop. I ran two lines, hard water and soft water to the yard and shop. If I am hand washing my pick up, motorhome or boat I use soft. For pressure washing I use hard.
I have regular pressure on either line. I have my pump set to 40psi on 55psi off. My softener tank has 3/4" water lines in and out.

 

[beenthere]

For more water at your outside faucets, be sure there are 3/4" pipes running to them (not the normal 1/2" size). A world of difference. More volume is what you want.

I also agree, to plumb so soft water only goes to where you want it...shower, bath, laundry, hot water heater, plus any additional like for car washing. Drinking water is not from the softener.

Now, what is the well question?

 

[VABlue]

Change the outside spigots to tap off before the softener/filter, but after the pressure tank. The line from the well pump should go directly into the pressure tank; only the pressure switch (which turns the pump on/off) gets tapped in prior to the tank. You won't need a separate tank to run your pressure washer, you'll be fine...

 

[Egon]

Change the outside spigots to tap off before the softener/filter, but after the pressure tank.

Couldn't the line be tapped before the pressure tank assuming there is a downhole check valve?

 

[Richard]

Yep to what they said.

What I did was replumb some things so that I now have a hot/cold frostproof faucet next to the garage. This is plumbed such that it will be softened water once I add one into my garage. The other spigot I added is plumbed in as hard water.

now, when we wash the cars/dogs outside.... everthing comes out fluffly. When the wife waters her plants.... she uses the other one which happens to also be closer to her plants.

 

[Hawghauler]

I would say that if you change it, set it up so that you can select either hard or soft water ......

Each has their uses and is good for different things: hard water should be fine for watering plants, soft for washing (cars equipment, etc.), and for use with spraying .... if you do that.

+1 Need soft water for washing the cars and toys.

 

[SPYDERLK]

That is a hefty power washer. You might want to check your max continuous water delivery. Long term [hr or more] use of my well at 5gpm will have it sucking air.
larry

 

[charliepff]

Thanks Guys,

I have noticed after reading these posts that both outside faucets are piped with 1/2". I am sure that is affecting the flow to. I found out with my aunt's house in PA that we could only use the pressure washer for about an hour at a time with an hour inbetween or we would start sucking sediment out of the well. I am assuming that is what I will have to do here. I did not even think about using the soft water for the vehicles or the dog. I am glad you all mentioned that. I appreciate the help. Now I got to find time to do the work.

 

[skipmarcy]

The water softener should be tapped into the cold water line AFTER any water spigots. If this is not the case then it should be changed. Not only will it slow your water pressure but you will be wasting salt and electricity on outside water. After you change that you should have more than enough water pressure for that pressure washer but you should test it to be sure.

My water softner doesn't drop my flow or pressure in my house and I have every single water point on soft, including my outside bibs. My system runs at 30/50 psi. My softner is plumbed with 1" pipe in & out and then drops to 3/4" right before the water heater/cold split and I used 3/4" to everything in the house up to the very last foot or so where it drops to 1/2". The several places I lived at in Florida had water softners and they also were plumbed for the whole house, not just a few appliances, was the standard down there for wells. My softner goes thru about $45 worth of salt a year, it cycles once about every 7 - 10 days (computerized controls). On the electro-mechanical timers you can set it to cycle when you want it to. When I installed my system I just made a simple bypass with ball valves in the 1" so I can bypass the softner if desired, but with the savings in soaps etc., we're spoiled on the soft water. We can tell absolutely no difference in the taste of our water with or without the softner. If your system is operating properly, you take in approx the same amount of sodium from soft water daily as 2 slices of white bread has.

 

[rjkobbeman]

The water softener should be tapped into the cold water line AFTER any water spigots. If this is not the case then it should be changed. Not only will it slow your water pressure but you will be wasting salt and electricity on outside water. After you change that you should have more than enough water pressure for that pressure washer but you should test it to be sure.

I have one spigot on the soft water for washing cars.

My spigots tap on to the main run in the house, so "before or after the spigots" have no affect on my flow.

 

[Highbeam]

How does it improve car washing? Do you still need to dry the rinse water?

I am about to add a softener and am all ears to this thread.

Skipmarcy, what brand/model?

 

[rswyan]

How does it improve car washing?

Soft water allows soap to do it's thing:

"It is often considered desirable to soften hard water. This is because the calcium and magnesium causing hardness partly block the oil emulsifying action simple soap formulations use in the cleaning action.

The calcium and magnesium form an insoluble precipitate observed as a soap scum and extra large amounts of soap have to be used to counteract this.

Most modern soaps and detergents contain ingredients that at least partly prevent this effect and detergents are available that are chemically completely unaffected by the hardness." - Wikipedia

People who are used to hard water will often complain after taking a shower with soft water that their skin feels "slimey" ....

What this actually is a very clean rinse with a lack of leftover soap scum and minerals that normally don't get rinsed off with hard water.

Do you still need to dry the rinse water?

Best - if you hope to avoid water spots :thumbsup:

 

[Dmace]

My water softner doesn't drop my flow or pressure in my house and I have every single water point on soft, including my outside bibs.

I have one spigot on the soft water for washing cars.

My spigots tap on to the main run in the house, so "before or after the spigots" have no affect on my flow.

Sorry guys but if you "think" that a water softener does not affect water pressure at all then you are not testing it properly. I don't care what size piping you use, what the pressure is set on your tank or what flow rate you get from your well. There WILL be a pressure drop after a water softener even if it is slight. I may notice it more since my artesian well hit a natural spring and can flow 15gpm all day long but even at a much lower 5-6gpm typical flow, you will still see a drop.
Even a real expensive high quality water softener effects water pressure. Here's a Q & A from PlumbingSuppy.com

"Will installing a softener reduce my water pressure?"

All brands of softeners do have a pressure drop. Think of the concept of all of the water ways (mostly caused by the resistance along the walls of pipes and fittings and changes of directions) that the water must travel through as well as the bed of resin, etc. in a softener. Water pressure is lost going through ALL plumbing fixtures, from faucets to meters to pipes to water heaters and so on. The Soft-Economizer's normal service flow is 13 gpm (that's more gallons of water that most homes ever use all at the same time) and at that gallonage you "should" experience a 10psi pressure loss; at 10 gpm a 5psi pressure loss and at 8gpm (that would be a typical shower plus kitchen faucet plus a toilet being flushed all at the same time) you should have less than a 4 psi pressure drop. At 5 gpm there should be less than a 2 psi pressure drop. When shopping for a water softener this pressure drop is something to compare. The less pressure drop the better and that is why we are telling you to look for those statistics. The Soft-Economizer's pressure drops are very little compared to many other brands of water softeners.

 

[Stimw]

My water problem is Iron, my softener removes most of it. If I washed my vehicles with it they would soon be orange!! I also only drink water through my icemaker carbon filter, it really tastes good!
You always want straight from the well for watering plants because they like the hard stuff.
I have three wells on my property, the house well w/softener, the garden well and the Geothermal Heatpump well.

 

[skipmarcy]

How does it improve car washing? Do you still need to dry the rinse water?

I am about to add a softener and am all ears to this thread.

Skipmarcy, what brand/model?

Highbeam - When I built 4 years ago I bought this one from the Sears Outlet store in Nashville for a good price. It's a Kenmore Intellisoft 350 Series. Yes, you'll still have to dry your car, a softner doesn't get all the minerals out of your water but the spots won't be near as bad if you don't dry it with soft water. As mentioned, you have to get used to using soft water - you will use too much soap in your dishes and washing machine initially, shampoo etc too, that's a given - you'll be amazed at how much less you need. And it is true that in the shower you'll feel like you're still soaped-up after rinsing - the minerals and soap scum are what make you "squeeky" clean with straight well water. We're lucky here, just a slight bit of clear water iron so iron isn't a problem for us. In Florida the wells had tons of iron - just use the salt that's formulated for iron problem if that's your case. For this computerized model softner you need to know the hardness level of your water to program it - I bought a simple water test kit at Lowe's for about $10 that you can do 2 tests with to find the hardness level.

Oh, and as far as the pressure drop - I said that mine didn't have any pressure drop - I haven't actually put a gauge on it to see. I should have said no detectable pressure drop. And yes, I have operated my system several times in bypass straight off the well to know there was no detectable drop to my appliances/shower etc.

 

[brokenknee]

Couldn't the line be tapped before the pressure tank assuming there is a downhole check valve?

I have a hydrant in the yard that is plumbed in before the pressure tank. That is the way the well guys installed it.

A water softener will reduce your water flow. Think of it as a filter, a filter has resistance therefore will effect the flow.