Welding without frying

[DwightD123]

Brand new to welding. Honestly haven't even broke it out of the box yet. One of the things I need to repair is my Polaris ATV hitch. It is just about impossible to remove the hitch frame so I need to try to weld it while it is still on the ATV. How can I do this without frying the electronics on the ATV? I want to be super careful about this so please tell me with no shortcuts on safety.
In case it matters I have an arc welder. Thanks in advance.

 

[bikerdib]

I assume it is a negative ground vehicle (most everything is now days), disconnect the ground cable at the battery. That will isolate the electronics from welding. I would be concerned about heat affecting any nearby combustibles on the machine. Also, make sure there are no gas fumes built up where you are welding.

One of my biggest concerns is that since you are new to welding, you will be doing out of position welding which in tight areas can be difficult even with experience. Got any buddies with welding experience?

 

[gwdixon]

Clamp the work (ground) as close to the weld area as possible. Make sure it is on bare metal or maybe an unpainted bolt.

If you are the worrying type, disconnect the ground on the battery while welding. Some say it is important while others don't.

Before you weld something serious you'd be better off practicing for a week or so until the learning curve starts to flatten out. Post some photos of your welds on here and also post a photo of what you are going to be welding on the ATV. Guys here have a wealth of knowledge and are willing to share and give advice.

 

[jaotguy]

use a big fan to blow the fumes away from the area,
use tin foil to protect any flammable plastic / wires / in the area being welded
keep an extinguisher close by ... garden hose / spray bottle with water ...

practice on similar pieces before attempting the good piece ( to get heat settings right )

NEVER weld galvanized metal (fumes are toxic)

 

[Jordan9682]

If it is a high stress area on the hitch, I would make sure you get the hang of welding before doing it, you don't want it to break AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN. Also, vertical welding is MUCH harder than horizontal. As far as electronics go, you should be fine as long as the battery is disconnected. Plastic, and other "meltable" materials nearby should be covered somehow, even rags to keep sparks off. And make sure your not right by any flammable fluids from the quad

 

[DwightD123]

Thanks for quick responses. I dont have any buddies that weld believe it or not. At least that are close enough to help. I will definitely practice and put that later on my list.
I plan on doing a table then a boom for my tractors bucket hitch recvr. I figure those should allow me time to get the feel.
Since its a 08 Polaris ill assume negative battery should be disconnected. This may sound really stupid but how would I know if its galvanized metal?

 

[6011Artist]

dwight, galvanized metal is the shiny coating on chain link fencing, galvanized pipe...you know the silver looking (when new) stuff that doesn't rust easily.

I've welded a bunch of galvanized pipe, chain link gates etc. The fumes are toxic so be sure to have lots of good ventilation and make sure you aren't breathing the fumes. Set a fan up reasonably close by to pull the smoke/fumes away from you. Don't aim it towards you. Welding in the wind doesn't work either.

With welding in general, always have good ventilation, never breath the fumes but especially with galvanized.

 

[Shield Arc]

The last two trucks I've bought, both cab & chassis. A 2004 F-550, and a 2007 Dodge 3500, had an envelope in the glove box addressed to the upfitters. Both manufactures said to disconnect both batteries before doing any welding on the truck. The Ford had a start up procedure, the Dodge did not. The Ford I built a dump bed for, I had to weld the hinge to the frame. The Dodge I made a sub frame and used holes already in the frame to bolt the sub frame, so I didn't have to weld to the truck.
Best advice has already been given, disconnect the battery, and keep the ground clamp as close to the welding as possible.
I've always wondered about Tig welding using high frequency on a car / truck with on board computers?

 

[Gary Fowler]

Already good advice, disconnect BOTH battery cables to ensure no stray currents get to your computers. Wet rags and wrap around any exposed wires or other items that might get hot and melt or burn from hot slag or popping weld metal (remove anything close by to the weld to prevent this). Clean the area thoroughly of any paint, grease or dirt to make it easier for the weld metal to adhere. Clean the ground clamp area to bright metal also so it gets good contact and place it as close as possible to the weld area without it being in your way. Don't hook it anywhere where the current might travel thru a bearing and be careful with your electrode that you don't arc something else beside what you intent to.
Welding galvanize is not a problem as long as you avoid inhaling the fumes. Someone said to put a fan nearby to SUCK the fumes away which is good as fast blowing air on a weld is NOT GOOD. Galvanized (zinc coating) does not weld that great and affects the quality of your weld making it brittle so it is best to remove the zinc first OR run a light 6010 or 6011 pass on it using a stepping motion in and out of the puddle to burn off the zinc. Burning zinc gives off an intense white smoke and leaves a white powdery residue next to the weld + does a lot of fizzing and sparking when welding.
I would weld it using 7018 rods after the initial first pass with 60xx rods as the 7018 gives much stronger welds. Since you have a tractor, you might use it to lift the bike up so it is easier to get too and see the weld puddle.

 

[LD1]

I see no harm in disconnecting the battery as others have already mentioned.

But that said, I have never done so. I have welded on ATV's, tractors, cars, and trucks and never had any issues.

On a side note, (not to hijack the thread), but how exactally does disconnecting the battery isolate the computer?? I see it will isolate the batter from the welding, and isolate the computer from the battery, but how does that isolate the computer from the welding??

 

[jwmorris]

I see no harm in disconnecting the battery as others have already mentioned.

But that said, I have never done so. I have welded on ATV's, tractors, cars, and trucks and never had any issues.

On a side note, (not to hijack the thread), but how exactally does disconnecting the battery isolate the computer?? I see it will isolate the batter from the welding, and isolate the computer from the battery, but how does that isolate the computer from the welding??

My help if you unhooked the cables from the battery and shorted them to one another at that point.? Like blasting caps come. Welded on hundreds of cars almost all were race cars that had cut off switches for all power that didn't shut off both sides, never had a problem.

Make sure your ground clamp doesn't have current going through bearings or anything like that. If you don't know for sure just clamp the ground to the part you are welding back on.

What kind of welder are you going to use? A fan blowing away the fumes and shielding gas of a TIG or MIG is going to give you less than ideal results.

 

[DwightD123]

Ok. Duh on the galvanized. I knew galvanized fencing. I guess since I am new to welding I'm trying to question everything rather than assume I know. Good info on the bearings. The way this hitch is mounted I feel it is part of almost everything on this bike so ill try to clamp to the new 2" square tube piece I am adding. Might be cumbersome as that piece will only be 6-8" long.

As far as the welder I'm using I know I'm gonna get blasted for this but it's all I can buy right now. It's a Chic Elec 90 Arc.
Here is the job list as I see it. Let me know if I'm missing something.

I will err on the cautious side and dc the batt cables.
Ill then build a shield of Alum foil for wires and tires etc. then
I will trace the hitch frame to see if it connects to any bearings indirectly (?)basing my clamp location on my findings.
Then ill grind off the damaged hitch recvr, clean the areas to be welded as well as the clamp location.
Next ill cut the new 2" recvr, if necessary, to match the "hole" in the hitch frame I just created. Grind the new part clean where welding will happen.
Set up a suck fan.
Then finally weld.

Sounds like a half days job at the very least. Wow.

 

[bikerdib]

I hate to have to tell you but I think building a boom pole for your tractor is pretty darn optimistic for your welder.

 

[gwdixon]

I'll say it again. You may get a better response from posting photos.

The electric path between the ground and stinger should not include bearings, etc. But electricity travels in a straight path of least resistance. Just trace the path from the ground (work) clamp to where the welding rod will engage the metal. A bearing somewhere else on the ATV will not be a problem unless it is on the path you traced.

The HF welder is a little light for heavy-duty welding. Most likely 3/32" rod is all that can be used.

Where the new hitch mates to where the broken hitch was removed should be ground out to make a "V" where it touches together. That is, grind one side like \ and the other side like /. Then the "V" can be filled with weld metal. Just running the rod on the seam where the two pieces butt together is not sufficient.

(This is why photos would help.)

 

[DwightD123]

Great info GW.. I will gladly post pics but the ATV is at the farm and I am in the city. A sad tale indeed but it's necessary if I am to make a living.
I know I am at the bottom of the heap with this welder. I would love to buy a welder that could handle Aluminum too as I have a Pole Barn door that needs repair. If you guys could help me convince my wife of a good buy for a better welder that could also handle Aluminum I can try to convince her and my checking account that I should do it. Keep in mind I will weld 4 times a year maybe.

 

[DwightD123]

The electric path between the ground and stinger should not include bearings, etc. But electricity travels in a straight path of least resistance. Just trace the path from the ground (work) clamp to where the welding rod will engage the metal. A bearing somewhere else on the ATV will not be a problem unless it is on the path you traced.

Then I think I should be ok as I can put the ground clamp pretty close to the stinger and make certain it is the most direct path. Any bearings should be a less direct and definitely further away. Thats very helpful...thanks.

Dwight

 

[DwightD123]

I really appreciate the input. When I get to this project I will post some pics and welcome the input. You guys have already been very helpful. Thanks.

 

[jagyzf]

On a side note, (not to hijack the thread), but how exactally does disconnecting the battery isolate the computer?? I see it will isolate the batter from the welding, and isolate the computer from the battery, but how does that isolate the computer from the welding??

I have never disconnected the battery and welded on trucks and farm equipment, never had an issue.

Now most computers even with the key off are still connected power wise to the battery. That is why disconnecting the battery will reset your check engine light, radio, and even the way your vehicle runs. Or at least mine do and there is a procedure for the vehicle to relearn thing. So by disconnecting the battery this should isolate them welding. In other words without the battery there is no complete circuit.

I also have heard of a couple of cars that you are suppose to change the battery "hot" by connecting a outside power source to the vehicle so it never loses voltage, or some cars call for this. Don't know if it makes a real difference or not.

 

[Ed of all trades]

Yes disconnect the battery cables and DON'T let them lay against any metal. I have not had the luck some of you have had thow I only burnt out a guage on a truck. Had the ground on the same piece of metal that I was welding too. That little welder will do a lot when you know how to use it, but it does limit you.

 

[LD1]

I still don't see how disconnecting the batt isolates the PCM from the welding voltage??? It disconnects it from the batteries 12v, but the PCM still has wires hooked to the chassis and various other sensors that may be conducting the welding voltage