Welding Bucket Hooks!

[MikeD74T]

Actually Patrick G you are touching on something that is really starting to be an industry concern. quote]

All welding on stainless steel at my workplace, a nuclear power plant, is now required to have a ventilation evaluation. Results in HEPA system drawing directly from the welding point a/o respirator use. I believe it's an issue with hexavalent chromium, like in the Erin Brockovich story. MikeD74T

 

[Sandlot]

At work, the welders are required to where respirators under there hoods while welding stainless even with ventilation. A trick I learned welding overhead, is to wear ear plugs. It really sucks to get one of those slag balls down your ear canal, that is a sizzle you don't want to hear!

 

[patrick_g]

BX, There are filtered air helmets for woodworkers. Some are air masks with hoses to belt mounted battery packs with filters and fans. This works for taking dust out of otherwise good air. This sort of system could easily be incorporated into a welding helmet, using of course, appropriate filters.

I have worked with and around flow booths, redesigning some in clean room applications and have a fair feel for airflow in and around a working person. That is why I think I have a good feel for just how poorly most welding operations ventilate their work areas.

There is no inexpensive way to properly ventilate a work space for welding with uncomfortably cold or hot ambient temps to contend with. This is especially true for the light to medium intensities of welding most of us find ourselves involved with.

With woodworking you can use a good cyclonic dust collection system with good output filters and route the effluent air back into the workspace recapturing conditioned air but with welding there are additional problems and filtration requirements for recirculating the air gets expensive.

Probably one of the best solutions for the DIY guy would be a low pressure breathable air supply flooding the inside of the welding helmet with clean air. Some canvas or similar attached to the helmet to cover the openings to the ambient air would prevent letting in fumes as the flow of good air flowing out would keep out the fumes. This would be a comfortable arrangement, not all sweaty as the fresh air flow would be better than a stock helmet. Comfort is always an issue when it comes to safety gear with use being less likely if it is uncomfortable.

NOTE: Do not use a typical shop air source for breathing air. Oil type compressors are especially not safe to breathe from. There are small compressors that are certified for safe to breathe air. HVLP turbines might be worth looking into to see if they mix the high pressure air with the low. If not OK but if they do then don't use it.

I set up a hookah system for a buddy once. I got a used inhalation therapy compressor from Parsons. One of those would be a good compressor for a small personal clean air supply to run into a welding helmet with a light weight flex hose like used on bonnet style hair dryers and some miniature vacuum cleaners. It would be important to control the source of the air being pumped into the helmet.

When welding in my shop for more that a few seconds I open the o'head door and other windows or doors for cross ventilation and use a fan if there isn't a breeze. When I enclose my tractor shed (21x48) to make a metal working shop (to separate wood and metal operations) I will be setting up a fume hood sort of arrangement for welding. I can think of no way to get good welding ventilation in my situation without loosing most of the conditioned air in the workspace. I will have a wood scrap and waste oil burning stove which will help a lot in winter but the metal shop will just not be as "swanky" as the wood shop. For example in summer it can only be air conditioned if I am welding outside and not inside the shop.

Pat

 

[Sandlot]

Expensive, but if you make your living sticking stuff together with molten metal........

Grainger Industrial Supply: PAPR System,Welding,HE Filter,Shade 9-13 1AGB9

 

[patrick_g]

At work, the welders are required to where respirators under there hoods while welding stainless even with ventilation. A trick I learned welding overhead, is to wear ear plugs. It really sucks to get one of those slag balls down your ear canal, that is a sizzle you don't want to hear!

When I lived on my sailboat in San Diego, my next hatch neighbor was a weldor. He got a spark in his ear and it perforated his ear drum. They cut his outer ear mostly off, folded it back, and repaired the ear drum and sewed his outer ear back in place, He had to avoid getting his ear wet for quite a while. He was hard surfacing a rock crusher when it happened, just a freak accident but he put a little cotton or foam plugs in his ears after that to avoid a repeat.

Pat

 

[xlr82v2]

Ouch!

I'll take one down the pants any day over that!

 

[bx24]

Well, for both the fume removal and the hood venting I am thinking about using computer fans.

For the helmet, I was going to try to take a box (maybe the size of a plastic ammo box) and mount one or two 5" computer fans blowing into the box. From there I was going to outlet the air via a 1.25" shop vac hose to either the top of the helmet like the PAPR system that Sandlot posted or maybe in the bottom straight towards my mouth.

I have not figured out what to do about filtering the air. Having the unit on the floor should help grab air where things are cooler (assuming the bad air is warmer and will rise). The other option would be to hook up a remote source of air ... who knows.

As for the hood, again I was leaning towards installing a 8" fan in the ceiling with a flexible hose coming down. On the end of the hose, I was thinking about using a plastic washing machine overflow tub (turned upside down). One other thing I was thinking about was installing some hockey-puck low voltage lights in the hood to help light up what ever I am working on with the wires running up through the flexible hose.

To Patrick_G's point about exhausting all of the "conditioned air", there is no way around this other than to try and filter the air. I have a wood shop with a cyclone dust collector .... If any of you have a wood shop and have problems with dust, get one because they are AWESOME ... you won't regret it. I was welding today (outside on the driveway because I was in turn burning old ... probably lead paint beyond the area where I ground off the paint) and it was about 35 degrees F. I don't mind the cold too much because you can always warm up your hands on the hot steel! But it is nice to stay warmer. The problem I find is that I don't think the smoke or fumes are too bad until I leave the heated area and then come back in and almost choke. With this in mind, exchanging the air (albeit slowly) with a 8" fan can only be a good thing.

 

[Sandlot]

BX,

It is much easier just to buy a respirator that is made to fit under a welding hood. They are not that expensive.

Grainger Industrial Supply: Respirator,Half Mask,M 6JR26

Grainger Industrial Supply: Pad, P100 Filter, Pk2 6JR29 These cartridges fit under a mask.

 

[bx24]

Sandlot-

Your right about easier, but if I wanted easier I would have skipped on the tractor, welder, torch, etc etc and just wrote checks!

Seriously, I did think about that option, but two key things are making me think "complicated"

First and foremost, the smokey room syndrome - I have to figure out a way to exhaust or otherwise clear the fumes. This stuff is fun, but its not worth dying over.

Secondly, I sweat when things get hot and I have worn respirators (when painting) when the temp get up high .... It stinks. I figured the benefit of having the blowing air would be that it would also act as a cooling source. I already have the fan and I may be able to get the hose for free as well. I will post pics if / when I put one together.

 

[MUDONTHETIRES]

Yep, I could have burned through it with some 6010 or 6011, but, what's the fun in that? And, it would have looked like poop... But, that's one of the advantages of SMAW... you can burn through a lot of junk on your material that will stop all of the other processes cold.

That's the main reason I haven't tried to do any overhead... no leathers! The thought of all that slag dripping down on me doesn't sound like too much fun!!

Brian,

Let me start by saying those are mighty fine welds! Your video is great too!
As a beginner welder (purchased 1st welder 2 weeks ago) I have a silly question. Why did you elect to use 7018's over 6011's? After I learn how to strike an arc without having it stick to the metal, I plan on welding hooks on my bucket. I have a Lincoln AC225. I'm welding 3/8" hooks on a 1/4" plate. In your opinion, should I use 7018's?

Thanks for reading,
Mud

 

[PILOON]

aaah, yes... Burning flesh.

When I was about 12 or 13 or so, I was helping Dad with some welding projects... Anyway, to make a long story short, somehow one of those big ol' slagballs made it's way down the front of my pants and settled onto a part of my anatomy that I never wanted it to take up residence at.... at first I didn't know what was going on... and neither did my Dad... He couldn't figure out why I was jumping around and yelling...

Then Dad started laughing his rear end off... I didnt' think it was quite so funny, at least at the time I didn't. Mom didn't think it was so funny either, having just burned a big hole right in the front of a fairly new pair of pants!

I can laugh about it now...

If you weld, it's not if, but when Although, I have to admit, I get burned much much less now than when I was younger...

OUCH:-

Been there, done that!

It hurts all over again!

I was once welding a flat surface that sloped towards me and those 'splatters' found the same part of anatomy that 'makes you dance'.

(Dances with wolves comes to mind)

 

[PILOON]

RE BREATHABLE AIR SOURCE

Old style diaphram type compressors are a good source for breathable air.
Essentially a 5-6 inch rubber disk that is pushed up and down and breathes via thin spring steel blades for valves in the head.
Absolutly no oil present.

The foam insulation guys use them around here with a dedicated line to a face mask and actually the mask need not fit tightly as you have a positive air displacement due to the pressurisation.

Some of the newer woodworking 'oil less' compressures now being sold would also work as the piston is basically a teflon ring or sleeve that displaces air.

 

[weldingisfun]

Brian,

Let me start by saying those are mighty fine welds! Your video is great too!
As a beginner welder (purchased 1st welder 2 weeks ago) I have a silly question. Why did you elect to use 7018's over 6011's? After I learn how to strike an arc without having it stick to the metal, I plan on welding hooks on my bucket. I have a Lincoln AC225. I'm welding 3/8" hooks on a 1/4" plate. In your opinion, should I use 7018's?

Thanks for reading,
Mud

I would recommend that you use the 6011. I'm a beginner too and have read that the 6011 is the most versatile and commonly used of all the rods.

 

[chh]

Unless things have changed or I am mistaken 7018 is usually run DC. Your welder is AC only, but 6010/6011's would work very well for what your wanting to do. Practice is the only way to learn to make nice welds. So keep working at it and good luck.

 

[patrick_g]

I have not figured out what to do about filtering the air. Having the unit on the floor should help grab air where things are cooler (assuming the bad air is warmer and will rise). The other option would be to hook up a remote source of air ... who knows.

To Patrick_G's point about exhausting all of the "conditioned air", there is no way around this other than to try and filter the air. I have a wood shop with a cyclone dust collector .... If any of you have a wood shop and have problems with dust, get one because they are AWESOME ... you won't regret it.

BX, Particulate filtration is easy with your setup but the better the filter (you want HEPA which can be had as parts for some vacuum cleaners) the more flow resistance you have and computer fans might not move enough air through a good filter. That was the good news. Now the bad... Some of the stuff you don't want to breathe is not particulate but is gaseous and even HEPA filter won't git 'er done. It just might be easier for you to run an intake hose to a source of clean air and then a computer type (electronic enclosure ventilation fan) might do a good job since yo wouldn't need a filter of maybe just a furnace type filter.

I have had a cyclonic dust collection system as part of my shop design from day one and 3 years later haven't got it installed... but real soon now!!! Did you buy or build? Oneida or brand x or...? Hopefully I will get one installed this winter.

I would think with proper precautions regarding sparks the suction capability of the cyclonic system could be used to evacuate welding fumes. My plan is to install it in my metal shop so I don't listen to it when I am in the wood shop (several feet of common wall.) The filtered air is to be returned to the shop. If I use the suction in the metal shop for fume extraction I will have to have an alternate air outlet so as to not "pump" fumes into the wood shop. That would be a bad idea since the wood shop shares a heat pump with the upstairs shop (wife's cerramics and stuff) and the sun porch.

I intend to use the cyclone to "pump" pelletized feed from bulk (dump trailer) to storage drums too, making it even more cost effective and multi-use.

Pat

 

[bx24]

Pat I have an Oneida setup with the blower mounted on top of the cyclone. From there the exhaust goes into a "box" with holes cut in it where the air exits vertically (in the down direction) through 5-gallon buckets with the bottoms cut out (mounted upside down). From there, each bucket has a 6' filter sock zip tied onto the buckets with another bucket at the bottom to close off the end of the sock.

After emptying the wood chip drum a couple of dozen times, the the only thing that was in the filter socks (at the bottom of the bucket) was about a 1/4" of dust so fine that it could pass for flour. Essentially all of the dust swirled out and much less than 1% made it to the filters. I bought the cyclone can and the filters from Oneida and the blower from HF.

If you do a lot of wood working, drop everything else and finish it now, you won't regret it.

I agree about the cyclone not doing anything for the fumes. I would definitely come up with a way to exhaust your fumes to the outside rather than to your wood shop. For me, the 200 CFM fan hood should get rid of most of my problems (I hope!)

 

[flusher]

When I lived on my sailboat in San Diego, my next hatch neighbor was a weldor. He got a spark in his ear and it perforated his ear drum. They cut his outer ear mostly off, folded it back, and repaired the ear drum and sewed his outer ear back in place, He had to avoid getting his ear wet for quite a while. He was hard surfacing a rock crusher when it happened, just a freak accident but he put a little cotton or foam plugs in his ears after that to avoid a repeat.

Pat

Cotton, earplugs--OK.

I prefer a balaclava, a tight fitting hood like race car drivers wear. It protects your head (other than the face which is protected by the helmet), ears, neck. Just be sure to tighten the balaclava so it fits snugly around your head and face. Welding supply stores sell them and there're pretty cheap protection.

 

[xlr82v2]

Brian,

Let me start by saying those are mighty fine welds! Your video is great too!
As a beginner welder (purchased 1st welder 2 weeks ago) I have a silly question. Why did you elect to use 7018's over 6011's? After I learn how to strike an arc without having it stick to the metal, I plan on welding hooks on my bucket. I have a Lincoln AC225. I'm welding 3/8" hooks on a 1/4" plate. In your opinion, should I use 7018's?

Thanks for reading,
Mud

For me, the only time I use 6011 is on very dirty, rusty steel. 6011 has a very harsh, aggressive, "digging" arc. Penetration is very high. If you want to lay nice, attractive looking beads, 6011 is NOT the rod to use. Don't get me wrong, it will hold and be strong, but it's just the nature of the beast... they don't lay very pretty beads, and the spatter level is quite high with 6011 as well.

7018 on the other hand, compared to 6011, has an almost "buttery" smooth arc that leaves behind a fairly attractive bead. 7018 is a "low hydrogen" rod (that, due to the way 99% of us store it, no longer meets the "low hydrogen" spec) that is used for making very strong, x-ray quality welds. But despite this improper storage that we all do to it, it still works very well as a general purpose rod. I think 7014 lays even nicer beads, but it isn't as forgiving of a little dirt on your material as 7018. 7024 lays the nicest beads of all, but it's for flat position only, so it is somewhat limited in it's usefulness as a general purpose rod.

7018 is normally for DC machines, it just won't run properly on an AC machine. For those with AC machines, they make 7018AC, which I've heard works very well. The difference is in the ingredients in the coatings on the rod.

I'd recommend using 7018... I think it's the rod best suited for the job.

If you're wanting to keep a minimum of different types of rod, I'd recommend keeping some 1/8" 6011 and 7018AC on hand. Use the 6011 for the dirty rusty stuff that you just can't get cleaned properly, and the 7018AC for everything else. You'll be loaded for bear with those 2 rods.

 

[thatguy]

Patrick_G - What is 'hard surfacing" you mentioned in the thread about your neighbor..

I would love a couple hooks on my bucket and since I dont weld I would have to rely on someone else for that.. Is there a science or art of where to place the hooks?

Brian

 

[MUDONTHETIRES]

For me, the only time I use 6011 is on very dirty, rusty steel. 6011 has a very harsh, aggressive, "digging" arc. Penetration is very high. If you want to lay nice, attractive looking beads, 6011 is NOT the rod to use. Don't get me wrong, it will hold and be strong, but it's just the nature of the beast... they don't lay very pretty beads, and the spatter level is quite high with 6011 as well.

7018 on the other hand, compared to 6011, has an almost "buttery" smooth arc that leaves behind a fairly attractive bead. 7018 is a "low hydrogen" rod (that, due to the way 99% of us store it, no longer meets the "low hydrogen" spec) that is used for making very strong, x-ray quality welds. But despite this improper storage that we all do to it, it still works very well as a general purpose rod. I think 7014 lays even nicer beads, but it isn't as forgiving of a little dirt on your material as 7018. 7024 lays the nicest beads of all, but it's for flat position only, so it is somewhat limited in it's usefulness as a general purpose rod.

7018 is normally for DC machines, it just won't run properly on an AC machine. For those with AC machines, they make 7018AC, which I've heard works very well. The difference is in the ingredients in the coatings on the rod.

I'd recommend using 7018... I think it's the rod best suited for the job.

If you're wanting to keep a minimum of different types of rod, I'd recommend keeping some 1/8" 6011 and 7018AC on hand. Use the 6011 for the dirty rusty stuff that you just can't get cleaned properly, and the 7018AC for everything else. You'll be loaded for bear with those 2 rods.

Hey Brian,

Thanks for the advice on the rods. I'll pick up some 7018AC's this week!

Mud