Weld Critique Plz

/ Weld Critique Plz #1  

Haywire

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I got a bead today that finally looks like something. I was doing the little circles rather than just trying to lay a straight bead. This is Hobart 1/8" 6010 at 64 amps, electrode positive.

What can you suggest to improve on this result other than just practice? Self diagnosis tells me more consistent speed.

thanks,
Ian
 

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/ Weld Critique Plz #2  
You are soooo making me want my welder now.:laughing:

I got nothing for you since you've run more beads than I have (zero), but I'm anxiously awaiting the feedback on this myself.:thumbsup: Keep up the practice and the posting. Hopefully, I'm learning as you go.:D
 
/ Weld Critique Plz #3  
Looks like your running a little cold. Try running it at 80, and with 6010 dont run circles, I backstep. Run it forward and then when the pool thins out back step it to get that ripple. Like whipping.

I honestly dont run much 6010, but step it, and run a little hotter and you should be good.
 
/ Weld Critique Plz #4  
I'm not an expert, but I'd turn it up to 80, 85, or maybe even 90-AMPs. Try running a "J" pattern. Run the long part of the "J" on the bottom plate, come back and make the curl up onto the upper plate.
 
/ Weld Critique Plz
  • Thread Starter
#5  
I turned it up to 80 and had a huge amount of undercut. Everything was melting all over the place. Metal Soup!

I could do ok at 70, but not with the back and forth. With the circles it's one long smooth movement. Stopping and changing directions back and forth throws me for a loop and it all goes to heck.

Ian
 
/ Weld Critique Plz #6  
You have to really watch your arc length, (distance from tip of rod to plate). Too much arc length will give you undercut / lack of fill.
 

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/ Weld Critique Plz
  • Thread Starter
#7  
Too much arc length will give you undercut / lack of fill.

Ok, good. I see that a lot and I know I'm bad about moving forward and not moving down. I'm trying to see what the puddle is doing and forget about the rod tip.

Ian
 
/ Weld Critique Plz #8  
The recommended amperage for 1/8 inch 6010/6011 is 75 to 125 amps. Like Shield Ark said, you are probably just not feeding the rod and holding too long an arc. Practice, practice, practice...
 
/ Weld Critique Plz #9  
I can't tell by the pic how thick your material is, but 65 amps is pretty cold for 1/8".
When welding with 6010 watch your puddle until it flows just to or a little past your edge then move the rod in a straight line about about 1/2" in the direction you are travelling. Then move it back and "stack" another puddle on top of the first one only slighlty overlapped. When you are travelling back to the puddle you can make a very small circular motion but not muth. You do this over and over and every motion back will make on little ripple in your finished welds. All of this happens very quickly and you need to weld a lot to get good at it. When you are stopped and watching the puddle go past the edge that is what keeps you from having undercut.
For a beginner I think your weld looks very good. When you get really good with 6010 the bead will look like a bunch of little dimes all laying in a row slightly overlapping each other.
Some of the welds I see on the build it yourself equipment on this site is a little scary looking but you are off to a great start.
I have read that you tube has some very good welding videos. I have never watched them as I made my living as a welder for quite a few years before moving into Supervision.
 
/ Weld Critique Plz
  • Thread Starter
#10  
The top piece is 1/4 and the bottom is 3/16". I'll go back and try to maintain a short arc with more amperage.

Thanks for the tips. I'll post some more pics when I make a little more progress. I'm about out of junk to weld together. I'll pay that shop a visit next monday and get some more scrap.

Ian
 
/ Weld Critique Plz #11  
I'm no expert either, but I can see a couple of things that would make me try a few changes.

I think you're a bit fast in places, which does two things. Firstly, you run at the very leading edge of the puddle, leaves larger spacing between the dimes and less deposited material. If you move a little more slowly, the puddle develops more width, which leads to better coverage at the edges of the bead. It also puts more heat into the base metal, allows the weld to penetrate better and gives a smoother looking bead.

Your electrode should travel no more than three times it's thickness on the weave motion, possibly less on a fast-freezing filler metal. My understanding is that you don't want to go back into a portion of the puddle that's already solidified unless you're "patching" a hole.

Slightly more heat will help, as will slowing down a bit. Without brushing the slag off the toes of the weld it's hard to see how much fusion you're getting out there. It looks a little cold at the edges.

The first pic was 1/8 7018, the extra heat smooths out the distinct ripples, flattens the weld slightly, and smooths out the toes so they blend into the base metal. As I recall it was a fairly slow weld too.

The second pic was mig, not really much comparison to the first, but the appearance is easier to see. Flat toes, not much ripple to it, I think it was more of a straight bead than a weave. Not happy with the amount of spatter I had, and you can tell my vertical welding technique needs work.

I find that after using the stick for a while, I'm shocked at how much ground I can cover with the mig. If I use the same travel speed I'm piling the weld up too much. I think that's part of what gives the stick such good penetration, the travel is slower which allows more heat buildup and better (deeper) fusion.
I can weld a job up in half the time it takes me with the stick. Not including chipping and brushing slag.

Each has their place, I normally use the stick about twice to three times as much as I use the mig now.

Try running practice beads until you don't see improvement, then give it up for the day. I find the single most important things (once you have the heat right) are travel speed and puddle manipulation. You can steer the puddle where you want it, and control it's extent and shape by what you do with the rod.

Sound is often your best secondary indication of arc length. It tells you something's changed, like a warning chime.

I try to picture burning the rod over the length of the weld area before I strike the arc. Think about the angle your hand is going to have to maintain, how much slack you have in the weld cable, and if you have room to move the holder toward the workpiece as the rod gets shorter. As you get more experience it'll become second nature.

I find once I strike the arc, things happen faster than I'd like. Too much to think about all at once. If you plan the bead before you start it gets easier. Slow motion welding would be nice!

Like I said at the start, I'm no pro when it comes to welding. I didn't post all the ugly bead pics!!

I've seen a lot worse than what you have there, and have done much worse myself.

Sean
 

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/ Weld Critique Plz
  • Thread Starter
#13  
Ok, I need to be looking for more of a flatter, feathered edge rather than a steeper angle like a drop of water on wax paper.

I upped the amps to 85, concentrated on keeping a short arc and didn't get the metal soup I had before. The back and forth got a little better I think, but it's not very consistent.

I'll keep at it.
Ian
 
/ Weld Critique Plz #14  
Ian,
Don't sell yourself short. Those welds are much improved. I'd say you were a little cold, but the unit has arc force control, so don't be surprised that it will handle the weld at a little lower amps than recommended. Honestly, your dime spacing though not 100% consistent isn't that bad for a newb. I've seen a lot, lot worse from guys with more than two weeks under their belt that is for sure.
 
/ Weld Critique Plz #16  
Ian,

Not sure if you knew this already, but I'll go over it just in case you don't.

Stick electrode "x" requires "y" number of amps to burn properly. The "y" value varies depending on brand, type (6011, 7018 etc), and also diameter of the electrode.

Each individual welding machine may burn the same electrode differently. My old Century AC/DC transformer may need a higher or lower setting to burn electrode "x" than your new Everlast. And there's no telling how accurate the dial, or in my case slide lever and scale actually is. I wouldn't be surprised if mine was out to lunch by 20 amps.

Ok, so let's say we have a setting of 120 amps DC to properly burn a 1/8 7014 electrode. That's on my machine, remember.

If I want to weld together a couple pieces of 1/8 plate, 120 amps puts "x" amount of heat into the base metal every second the arc is running. I move the electrode "z" inches per second, which defines how much heat goes into a given area of the base metal, and also how much penetration I'm getting. If my base metal can't absorb that much heat without turning into a pool of molten metal (as opposed to a puddle), I need to reduce the amps until it's manageable, say down to 90 amps. Now I can't use a 1/8 electrode, because the welder can't burn it properly at 90 amps.

So I use the next smaller size electrode, in my case 3/32 7014 at 90 amps. I get the weld profile I'm looking for, the heat being absorbed by the base metal is manageable without melting everything, and things are good.

You can cheat to a certain degree welding thicker materials by increasing the amount of bevel you put on the edges of your workpiece to allow the smaller electrode and lower current to do the job with multiple passes. There's very little choice welding thinner material with a larger rod. Welding in short bursts and allowing the metal to cool between will help a bit, but makes for a scabby looking job.

My rule of thumb is material less than 1/4" thick calls for 3/32 rods, 1/4" to 1/2" I'll use 1/8 rods, most of my work falls between those two. Lighter material means I'll use my mig. The 1/2" stuff definitely gets beveled before welding, and still gets several passes.

My first project with the stick was building a cart to move it around with. You won't have that problem with the Everlast, I'm envious of the light weight of the inverter. Anyway, I bought a box of 1/8 7014 to start me off, and spent a weekend burning holes through the 1/8" thick angle iron I used for the cart, then patching them. First project Monday morning was picking up some 3/32 rods for the next time.

I'm pretty much self taught, and the results aren't always so good. I have a lot of pros I can ask questions, and what I've found is that learning to weld has been a series of light-bulb moments in a lot of darkness.

Sean
 
/ Weld Critique Plz #17  
Have you thought about cutting the electrodes down some? When I was learning I found that my hand shake was frustrating making it real hard to tell if it how I was trying to weld or if it was the unsteadiness in my hand. I know several people who rarely stick weld so they just cut all their electrodes in half.
 
/ Weld Critique Plz
  • Thread Starter
#18  
Yep, that exact thing occurred to me. My hand movements aren't so exaggerated when the rod is shorter and I have better control. A friend of mine said that when he sticks, he bends the rod so he can get his hands into a more stable hold position and isn't out there so far away from the weld.

Ian
 
/ Weld Critique Plz #19  
I think you'll find most weldors use two hands. Maybe not so much with 7018 running flat fillets welds, but sometimes you just need the extra stability. Everybody's arm gets tired, and when you get tired your arm will shake to some degree.
 

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