Way out in lead, er, left field

[etpm]

I hafta add weight to my Yanmar YM2310. I keep thinking about liquid weight and steel weight. The steel being discs that bolt to the wheels. The holes in the rim are there after all. But then I had a thought. The best weight for lowering the center of gravity is, of course, weight down low. Liquid in tires is biased slightly to the lower half because they are not filled to the top. But the bias is slight. And like a bullet to the brain this idea struck me. What about a few hundred pounds of lead shot in each tire? Add some sort of liquid to lubricate the shot so that it tends to stay at the bottom of the tire. The reduced friction would, maybe, keep the shot from abrading the inside of the tire. It would at least reduce the wear. So, bad idea? Should I put the gin away?
Thanks,
Eric

 

[CobyRupert]

How would you get it in tire? Or out if you you have to move or change tire?
How could you be sure a pellet does get into the bead when you mount tire and prevent a good seal?

 

[MossRoad]

Think about it.

Liquid is not compressible. If you fully filled a tire with liquid, you'd be riding on solid tires. That's why there's an air gap at the top of the tire. To allow compression and expansion of the tire as you encounter ruts, bumps, etc.

Also, the liquid in the tire doesn't spin around and around. It pretty much stays put as the tire slips past it. You'd have to get up to a pretty good speed to have enough centrifugal force to keep the liquid pressed against the outer circumference of the tire.

If you put lead shot inside the tire, it would be similar to a cement mixer. As you move, all of the weight would try to stay in the back portion of the tire, and it would constantly be sliding up and down in that space. I'd guess it would make for a very uncomfortable, pulse-like feeling.

I had a tractor with calcium chloride in the rear tires. I could have added a lot more weight in wheel weights than I could have added with the liquid.

There's about 7.48 gallons in a cubic foot.
A cubic foot of water weighs about 62 pounds.
A cubic foot of steel weighs about 489 pounds.
If you really want to lower your center of gravity, I'd go with the wheel weights on the outside of the rims.

Weights are removable. Addable. Subtractable. Etc.

 

[CalG]

Ball type weights are actually "a thing" for tire balance. Or was at one time. Water caused agglomeration may have ended it's application.

Getting lead shot into a tubeless tire is a no brainer. Break down one side only, pour the shot in and air up!

I think the idea has merit! Soapy lube water and all. The water antifreeze soap combination just would add weight right where it is most desired!

Now to do the cost analysis... lead shot at $3 per pound....water at ,00002 cents per pound hmmm......

 

[California]

Put away the gin... Get iron weights. Modify similar ones if you have to.

I loaded the YM240 tires to 50% (axle high) with tapwater. (There's no freeze hazard here). It improved pulling power a lot, but the weight made me go up the grades in the orchard in a lower gear so slower. My main objective was rollover stability,. As you noted, all the weight is low down. Then after ROPS became available I bought one of the first ones and drained the tires down to what would would come out with the stems at 6 o'clock. It rides better and pulling power is sufficient.

When I got the little YM186D it needed rear ballast to offset the loader when there wasn't an implement on the back. I found iron wheel weights and modified them to fit. One of the best improvements I can think of.

Just put iron wheel weights on it. They allow the casing to flex better than liquid fill so the traction improvement is greater.

 

[etpm]

Ball type weights are actually "a thing" for tire balance. Or was at one time. Water caused agglomeration may have ended it's application.

Getting lead shot into a tubeless tire is a no brainer. Break down one side only, pour the shot in and air up!

I think the idea has merit! Soapy lube water and all. The water antifreeze soap combination just would add weight right where it is most desired!

Now to do the cost analysis... lead shot at $3 per pound....water at ,00002 cents per pound hmmm......

Yeah, the cost. There is that. Maybe I could go to the local gun range and sift the trap shooting range. Then again.....
Eric

 

[pmsmechanic]

Go to a tire shop and get all the weights you can. Also to the gun range. Melt the lead and pour it into forms for weights. From what I understand as long as you don't get melted lead too hot you don't need to worry about lead poisoning. If the melted lead is smoking it's too hot.

 

[CalG]

wheel weights and poured ingots would raise holy hell with any tire casing.

 

[4570Man]

Go to a tire shop and get all the weights you can. Also to the gun range. Melt the lead and pour it into forms for weights. From what I understand as long as you don't get melted lead too hot you don't need to worry about lead poisoning. If the melted lead is smoking it's too hot.

Any reclaimed lead is going to smoke like crazy regardless of the temperature.

 

[pmsmechanic]

Any reclaimed lead is going to smoke like crazy regardless of the temperature.

And I learn something new again. Thanks

 

[pmsmechanic]

wheel weights and poured ingots would raise holy hell with any tire casing.

I agree. My thinking was to pour the lead into a steel mold that is then bolted to the outside of the tire. I don't think I would put any metal inside the tire. Even with a lubricant it would still grind itself into a slurry over time.

 

[California]

We've seen reports here of poured concrete wheel weights. The owners liked them.

But research how to embed a rebar circle and bolts. Or tubing for bolts where the tubing will be under compression when you bolt them on instead of stressing the concrete. And some way to make clearance so they can be removed easily. I might also add a visible loop for lifting the weight with a crane. Far simpler than pouring molten metal!

 

[California]

Here's an old thread where I modified unknown-origin iron weights to fit on the little YM186D.

Wheel Weights for YM186D

I found a pair of cast iron wheel weights on Craigslist. 75 lbs each, 15 inch diameter. Application unknown. He wanted $20 for the pair. I'm too cheap to pass that up. :D They are a good fit on the YM186D, after I removed some metal to let the valve stem pass by without touching. I also...

www.tractorbynet.com

(with more details in post #6 of that thread).

And that references a photo that is no longer available so here's the lost photo:

 

[ljjhouser]

Way out in left field. Lead is so soft that it would wear and probably turn into a liquid googy toxic mess. Also, lead shot, reclaimed or otherwise, is expensive. I shoot trap and I think reclaimed 25 pound bag is about $50.

 

[etpm]

My question about lead shot in tires was mostly in jest, but after reading the posts here I realized that if I were to do something like this it would be better to use large balls rather than shot because the lead would eventually grind itself into a really nasty slurry. This slurry would still work great but would be terrible to deal with come tire change.
I checked with the local scrap yard and 1/2 inch thick steel plate is 40 cents per pound. So what I'm gonna do is buy enough plate to make 4 ea. 2 foot diameter discs. The corners that get cut off of the rectangular plate to make discs I will weld to the discs, so no metal lost but for the kerf of the plasma cutter.
40 cents per pound seems like a pretty low price for weight. I think it's cheaper than beet juice. Since I already have about 200 pounds of lead I am also considering casting it into a frame that I can then bolt to the tractor using the same holes that the drawbar brackets use. There won't be a ground clearance problem for what I use the tractor for and the extra weight down low will help to lower the center of gravity.
My other tractors are a Ford 9N and a Case 580 CK backhoe. The Ford has calcium chloride and water in the tires, the Case just has air. The Ford has never seemed likely to tip over, but its rear wheels are set at the widest they can be. The Case does not have added weight, it really doesn't seem to need it. But it can get tippy feeling. Lowering the outriggers and swinging the hoe boom around really helps keep all 4 tires on the ground.
My little YM2310, though similar in size to the 9N, feels much more tippy. Even though, like the Ford, I have the rear wheels set for the widest stance, it still feels like it wants to tip over. The added weight will not only add much needed traction, it will also add stability. Especially the lead below the rear diff.
Since I retired recently I still have a complete machine shop along with torches, welders and a plasma cutter just 300 feet from my house. This makes fab jobs much easier. So adding the steel and lead should be cheaper for me than folks who don't have the resources and skills I am so fortunate to have.
Eric

 

[LouNY]

Had a neighbor that was a plumber that acquired a very large amount of lead.
He made some steel housing in the shape of wheel weights, then melted the lead
and poured those forms full they were extremely heavy for there size.

These are my 300# each wheel weights, I had to remove them to adjust the width of my tires then reinstall them,
the last picture you can see that the front wheels on the 574 are just about skimming the ground.

 

[California]

My little YM2310, though similar in size to the 9N, feels much more tippy. Even though, like the Ford, I have the rear wheels set for the widest stance, it still feels like it wants to tip over.

Did I put this in this thread already? When I got my YM240, I read everything I could find about them. One poster on some tractor board said he saw theirs lying on its side occasionally when he looked out his office window and over toward the plant's shop. Because it was too narrow to drive with weight lifted high on loader forks.

I like your idea of cutting ballast discs for your wheels. Put on several!

 

[etpm]

Did I put this in this thread already? When I got my YM240, I read everything I could find about them. One poster on some tractor board said he saw theirs lying on its side occasionally when he looked out his office window and over toward the plant's shop. Because it was too narrow to drive with weight lifted high on loader forks.

I like your idea of cutting ballast discs for your wheels. Put on several!

Each rear wheel is gonna get in essence a 1 inch thick, 24 inch diameter disc. With the corners left over from cutting the discs from the squares welded on so that I use all the steel. That should be about 160 pounds per wheel. I hope it's not too much. I don't think It will be.
Eric

 

[California]

Each rear wheel is gonna get in essence a 1 inch thick, 24 inch diameter disc. ... That should be about 160 pounds per wheel. I hope it's not too much. I don't think It will be.

That sounds just right. I just looked in my (US) YM240 parts manual and it shows three optional rear wheel weights for each side, total 70kg each side. (20+25+25).

 

[Boss 302]

Yep, probably no need to reinvent something just go with what's already available.