watch out for bait and switch

willywildes · Oct 11, 2004

On 8-28 i bought a new L3130 from bobcat central in Stockton CA I had been to several dealers in my area getting prices.
all were helpful all within a few hundred dollars. I setteled on
Stockton becouse they had a big clean shop and new showroom parts area. I told them what i wanted new 3130GST
513 loader heavy duty bucket,bolt on blade t&t 72"tiller,72"gannon box so he gives me the price which was a
two hundred dollars higher than my second choice dealer
never using part numbers just using generic terms so when
they fed ex the P.O to sign i noticed no bolt on blade. So i called
and told them i orderd the heavy duty bucket with a bolt on blade thay said will take care it. The tractor shows up with a light duty bucket that they drilled and put on a cutting edge
I said the minute i saw it this is not the bucket i orderd he said yea i know we have to order one he wrote on the P.O.
need round back bucket. then calls me two weeks later and says he needs me to pay $285 if i want it. butt he really didnt think i needed it. today they brought a newly painted scratched up used bucket it is straight so i'm just going to
live with it i split the cost in half and they were to throw in
the 50 hr filters and oil. what i got was 2 gallons of motor oil
and 1 gallon of udt 3 oil fillters and a fuel filter. this is why
car deallers had to putt on sticker prices. I love my tractor
but my EX DEALER sucks. I hope no one else has to go through this

WW

KennyV · Oct 12, 2004

When it comes to pricing/shopping things like this can happen.

If you beat up a dealer too bad on price, a shady one will agree to anything and then go out of his way to get back at you. An honest guy would just tell you he can’t do it and he may even try to explain why.

It dose not sound like you did anything to deserve this ‘buyer beware’ /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif type of sale you received. You say it was two hundred dollars higher…

This may be a new guy in the tractor business (no excuse). He now has all the normal obstacles of running a business plus the bad ‘word of mouth’ that he will certainly receive from you… A very poor business move on his part.

You are obliged to specify what you are expecting in your purchase agreement, and dealer is obliged to satisfy that PO. With any discrepancies you then have to work it out the best you can, or litigate…

Enjoy your tractor, sounds to me like this guy has just gone out of his way to steer you to a better dealership /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif. There are more good dealers than bad ones out there for this, and other reason. KennyV.

DannyD · Oct 12, 2004

Label me the idiot or whatever, but that tractor would have been back on his lot and he would have been refunding my money or talking to my attorney, simple as that. Sounds as though you left no doubt what you wanted, and expected and he did all he could to make sure you got less than what you asked for, but more than what he could afford to sell you. But then again, I am just an idiot butt head.

Rolando · Oct 12, 2004

Shouldn't you be contacting Kubota directly? They need to know about these kinds of shenanigans, and hopefully they would do something about it.

Junkman · Oct 12, 2004

( Shouldn't you be contacting Kubota directly? They need to know about these kinds of shenanigans, and hopefully they would do something about it. )

Kubota doesn't get between a franchised dealer and the customer on disputes of this type. What the buyer should have done was to return the contract and have it updated with the correct bucket being shown on the face of the contract along with all the other details. Since he didn't do this, the dealer is only obligated to deliver what the contract specified. When there is a written contract, all verbal agreements go out the window and are no longer enforceable. This could also be the result of a unscrupulous salesman pulling a fast one that even the management wasn't aware of. Whenever there is a dispute, the first thing to do is contact the people that own the dealership and try to resolve it with them. They are the ones that will suffer from the bad salesman's selling practices long after the salesman is gone. For this reason, they will usually try to make it right. If it was one of the owners that he made the deal with, then they were cognizant of what they had in mind doing from the outset. In this event, the only recourse is to file a complaint with the BBB, for what ever good that will do.

willywildes · Oct 12, 2004

I talked to kubota today they are working on it. Talked to the dealer thay claim it's a new bucket they picked up from kubota yesterday and painted it because it was scratched. then said thats all your getting and hung up on my wife. you can tell someone used it to load a good deal of rock.Im not being a hard **** they charged
me 110$ for doc fees when they quoted 85$ said they would
change it. they didn't.they over estimated the tax buy 140$on the work sheet. but didn't give it to me just put in on the price of the tractor. The point i'm trying to make is a some dealers word isn't worth a ****. Don't trust any of them make sure
it's the right model number on the contract. They will say any thing to make a sale! I put my trust in them and learned a lesson. It could be worse.

ww

_RaT_ · Oct 13, 2004

Looks like you got it equipped with all the right stuff. Sorry about the mess up. You should do well with the setup. I have much the same but I don't personally like bolt on cutting edges. The HD bucket has a good tough edge to start and I find the exposed bolts and the ability to get the bucket into material takes more umph. Now if I was plowing snow and dragging the bucket on aspahlt, it would be another story. I also find that about 70% of the time I have a toothbar on which pretty much isolates the bucket cutting edge anyway. You certainly can't really go wrong though having the bolt on cutting bar, not trying to make you feel like it doesn't have it's benefits. Best wishes with your tractor. Rat...

Junkman · Oct 13, 2004

The sales tax money you can recover. If they over estimated the sales tax and didn't return the excess, then they are in violation of the state tax laws. All taxes collected belong to the state and if they over charge on the tax and don't either remit it or return it, then they are guilty of STEALING! I would contact the state Attorney General and discuss the entire transaction with them. As a business, the last thing that you want to be happening is have the taxing authority going over your books with a fine tooth comb. The states take a very dim view of fraud when it comes to taxes..... especially California where they need and want every tax dollar that they can find. It is now time that you turn the heat up on that unscrupulous dealer. Don't wait, because the longer you wait, the harder it will be to get the governmental agency to take action. Strike while the iron is hot!!!

Cliff_Johns · Oct 13, 2004

( On 8-28 i bought a new L3130 from bobcat central in Stockton CA . . . snip . . . I love my tractor but my EX DEALER sucks. I hope no one else has to go through this )

I was under the impression that we were not to discuss specific dealers in any negitive conotation, but now I can't find it in the rules, so I guess it's OK. Seems like we should avoid this sort of thing, though since it may cause legal problems for TBN and is also an invitation to sleazy dealers to come on TBN and badmouth the competition. Perhaps I'm just being paranoid, or maybe I'm really being followed.

Still, sounds like you got a nice machine, it's too bad the actual deal took some of the shine off your enjoyment. I'm sure the loader will last a very long time in any case.

Cliff

Riddler · Oct 13, 2004

A similar frustration that I encountered (also with a local Kubota dealer) was quoting me a decent price on the tractor and implements, showcasing the subtotal in bolded print and then inserting line items just below the subtotal, not in bolded print, for things like "set up fees", "shipping charges", etc. In the end, I would have been paying the dealer the same amount as another dealer who quoted me near-list prices but didn't tack on hidden fees and costs. When I told the sales person that I was not inclined to pay the add-on charges, he claimed that his "service department" charged the "sales department" for inspecting, assembling, ordering, etc., so there was nothing he could do to waive the fees. Of course, this was a nonsense explanation designed to head off any further discussion of waiving the fees. This dealer's tactics were enough to send me to my local blue dealer for a visit, who turned out to be wonderful to do business with. The buying process ended up uncomplicated, relaxed and enjoyable. I also ended up saving a lot on machine that was very comparable to the orange machine I had in mind.

The moral of the story is be patient, open minded and visit lots of dealers. They are by no means created equal.

willywildes · Oct 14, 2004

GIVE ME A BREAK ON THE RULES!! this is only part of a pattern
of how this dealer operated and is intended to help people like me who will only buy one tractor in there life time.
What to watch out for. riddler is right i kind of rush in the end to get
the 0% and took a mans word that could not deliver. Well
Kubota is helping me to get it resolved. Riddler glad to here
all is well on your new baby. Good luck be safe!

p.s as for lawsuits i have the truth on my side and the documents. just not worth the time and effort

WW

Junkman · Oct 15, 2004

That dealer was telling you the truth and there were no hidden costs. He line itemed them for you to see. The line items are not negotiable in some dealerships, because this is the way service is set up. Service has to carry their profit margin and they do charge these fees to the sales department. This is done so the sales department also has to show a profit on their own merit, and not short change the service department out of their profits. I don't see anything wrong with this type of selling as long as it is all spelled out. The dealer did this and for some reason you are unhappy. I don't understand why this should frustrate you when a dealer spells out exactly what you are getting and how it is broken down into the $$$$$. This dealer was upfront about all the costs in the purchase. You decided to go else where, but at least you then had an idea of what it actually cost to get that tractor from the crate to standing on its own 4 tires. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

KennyV · Oct 15, 2004

…I as a consumer do not care for all deception, the dealer prep, assembling, ordering, shipping AND handling and every other possible break down things are marketed with…

IF you need to charge 1.23% more than the price you are putting in bold print … why not just put you total price in bold print? The reason … in most cases more likely than not, it is used to pump the price and leave some space for the ‘closer’ to negotiate the sale. That’s one way to market your stuff, not my choice when it comes to buying…

When it comes to a car, boat, or tractor, you already know what model you are interested in… how you want it equipped, and if you want the white wall AG tires only on the front. You are generally price shopping AND maybe dealer shopping. You’re generally looking for the bottom line… a good scale to judge your dealer is HOW LONG DOSE IT TAKE before they give you that bottom line.

If he needs to add .00027% to the sale because he wants to have two ply tissue in the bathrooms… that’s fine, but he dose not need to itemize to the consumer to justify his pricing. Or so that house keeping can show a profit. The idea that jumping through a lot of hoops will dazzle the buyer to the point he can’t see the end number may have worked somewhere, sometime. Why not line item the cost of the coffee that is available while you are in the dealership? I also think there is room for energy adjustment, could snag a few more bucks during the dead of winter or peak heat of summer. After all, those are actual bills that must be paid. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

“Upfront” is not a lot of ‘line items’ in small print justifying the real bottom line. But the way … all things are negotiable. If not at this dealership it will be at the one that makes the sale.

Just my limited experience as a consumer, and long rant... /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif KennyV.

willywildes · Oct 15, 2004

The difference between buying a car and a tractor is the mulroony sticker which spells out the destination charges
and all options before this law some of them were tractor dealers. use generic terms you sign the contract no cooling off period and when the car comes in it has half the options
you thought you were getting. Then they tell you its all a misunderstanding and for xxx amount of dollars we can get it for you my P.O. only uses stock number #xxxxx serial#xxxx. model la 513 includes 66" bucket with bolt on blade. only the bolt on blade is only shown with optional h/d bucket. 3130GST R/4 tires they could have brought me a harvest return
and said that what the contract says did you check to see that
the dealers stock # and the serial# matched the contract when you received your tractor. or the tractor you looked at the dealer is the same one you recived you should when you buy a tractor when you buy a car you usually drive the car home the same day. watch out and be safe

WW

P.S as more home owners buy tractors someday their might be a law. it just takes a few bad apples.

_RaT_ · Oct 15, 2004

I got my tractor with more then I asked for. Spark arrestor and folding ROPS. My experience was quite the opposite of yours. Everything was clearly spelled out and there were no surprises.

BRIGUY · Oct 16, 2004

Car dealers used to do this crap. It didn't work. It made them look like the crooks that some of them are.

I only do business with people who quote me a price plus tax. The only exception to this in my Kubota purchase was the documentation fees. The dealer explained this to me several times up front before the deal took place.

We all know these costs exist But the bottom line is what is needed to compare prices.

Dargo · Oct 16, 2004

My comment only has to do with your 72" tiller. My 4310 I had wouldn't turn my 72" tiller in my heavy clay soil. I also had a JD 4600 and it was a gear drive tractor. Low gear in low range with the 72" tiller = stall or keep slipping the clutch. It takes the full 48hp PTO power of my L5030HSTC at slow speeds to do the job. Unless your soil is really loose and sandy I don't think you'll like your tiller.

willywildes · Oct 17, 2004

I'm no expert on tillers, butt when i went through tiller brochures some tillers of the same size needed different pto horse power. I asked a few questions about this and was told it depends on the number of flanges and gear reduction. I have used it to till in heavy clay to till about 1ac and tilled down to the rottor i did soak the ground first and waited a week and it had previously been disked with the d2. i use 1st gear GST and it will pull down in wet spots but it works great so far sure beets the troy bilt. I should add i did 3 passes lowering the skid shoe each time. Be safe

WW

DannyD · Oct 17, 2004

I think you got the bad and the ugly in one dealership. My last purchase I know for a fact I paid list, but they gave me alot more than what they are selling my old tractor in trade, almost what I paid. Looked good on paper, made no diff to me. When I got there to sign the papers, guess what, the figures matched what I was told they would be. The tractor had already been delivered 2 days before, I was in town and just stopped by to sign. I like this type of deal, I know the bottom line, they know I know it, and that is all I pay. All fees etc are ABOVE the bottom line.

Same thing on my truck, went in ask the price, trade etc, they put it on paper, we dealt to rounds, came back this much for the deal, and this much per month. In fact the actual payment is 2 dollars less than what they quoted.

I make no bones about it, when I walk in and am approached, I tell them I used to be in sales, know the game, won the game, and dont play anymore.

Cell phone, first time with this seller. I get it all done and he whips out this paper that is going to cost me like 7.00 a month and I have to do it to get service. I ask him why he did this in this manner. Told me something like that is how they want it done, get the sale then show them the small stuff. He kept the phone, and I ripped up the paperwork right there. Called his boss, who promptly fired him, sold me a phone and service at what was advertised, and has kept my business thru 3 phones for me, and several for the other 3 lines I have. Been with him for over 5 years now. He tells those that deal with me, shoot straight and truth only, no bs.

willywildes · Oct 20, 2004

talked to kubota today, after kubota said the dealer would be calling me to straighten this out. No call from dealer in over a week. called kubota back today said he talked to dealer after receiving my call yesterday. dealer said he wouldn't charge me
anything for used bucket. (what a nice guy) if it goes like everything else they have told me i should get the bill tomorrow. KUbota did say they dont get involved between customers and dealers and can"t help me anymore. They were kinda luke warm.

Be safe
WW
THE END !