Was this safe towing?

[Richard]

Yesterday on my way home, I just stopped & stared with jaw open.

Noticed on road approaching me from opposite direction a rig pulling a full sized yellow industrial backhoe/loader.

Seems the rig pulling it was (most likely) a dually truck. I have NO idea what brand the truck was, I dont really KNOW that it had dual wheels, I didn't get a look at that as I was too busy verifying that it was indeed, a full sized loader/backhoe.

This truck had a big trailer behind it, the trailer had 3 wheels on each side, I did not notice if the wheels were double wheels, though I dont think they were.

This backhoe ...geez... this thing if it is similar to Brutus, weighs somewhere around 15,000 lbs. Then the trailer large enough to carry it....

I drive a Miata, so I know nothing about towing other than back yard trailer with some lumber on it.

This just "looked" terribly mismatched and out of proportion and franky, unsafe.

WAS it? Can a F-350 type truck safely tow a full sized industrial backhoe/loader? if it can, can a 250? /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

2 years ago, a friend of mine wanted to borrow my backhoe, said he could tow it "no problem...I have a towing package".

I said absolutely no way. We get a dump sized truck to pull it to his place and he's welcome to it. (he lives near some BAD hills that would make me nervous for the brakes & pulling power to go back up other side)


Richard

 

[Tractors4u]

A dually/1 Ton truck could pull it, provided that they used the right sized trailer that was equipped with brakes. If it was a triple axle trailer like you say, then it was probably OK.

 

[markct]

most heavy one ton trucks can handle a 9 ton trailer moderatly well, i know a contractor around here that does that frequently. but not all one ton trucks are created equal, and i dont mean by brand, i just mean that gvws for one tons vary alot. i wouldnt think that you would want to do it with a lot of hills, but as long as the trailer had good brakes and most importantly the driver had good common sense, then it should be ok. also you need more than a step bumper or a reciever hitch, the truck should have an actualy hitch plate welded directly to the frame.

 

[cowboydoc]

I consistently haul loads of this type with no problems at all. I've got excellent brakes on my trailers and have no problems. My suspension is beefed up to handle the extra load and I also run the better brakes.

 

[Richard]

Well all, I must say I had absolutly no idea a pickup truck could tow that much weight.

Maybe I won't challange a pickup truck to a Miata-Truck pulling duel... (I'd hate for him to smoke his transmission)

/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[RichNJKubota]

How kind of you to save his tranny.

 

[SageBrush]

Actually, no "one ton" could pull a 15K tractor plus the trailer and stay within the manufactures tow ratings. Yet many people do, on a daily basis too.

I know of a fellow who pulled a 310 JD on a utility trailer 50 + miles with a light duty F-250.... the kind that looks like a F-150, not a Super Duty. He claims he had no problems, just a little slow. Safe? Well its not DOT approved. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

People are always pushing the limits of these trucks, thats why I buy new. My truck can pull about 14,000 as equipped with the family onboard and stay within the weight ratings. I know it coud pull a back hoe, but I would be over weight at least 3K with my set up.

Also, the truck pulling the back hoe could have been a F-550 Ford, which is rated for that kind of load. They use the same cab as the F-250 and F-350 SD, but has bigger axles, wheels and a stronger frame.

 

[Junkman]

How do you know for sure that this is a one ton truck...... many of the new Fords look like one ton trucks but are rated for a higher payload.... Like the F450 & F550....... they look just like a F350 at a fast glance......

 

[Taylortractornut]

Its safe as long as the truck is set up for it. I haul my older Ford hoe and a 580 Case hoe on dads 1990 350. Also use my 85 Chevy 1 ton. Its a gooseneck trailer. I hauled a 12000 pound lathe home a few years ago with it. I just always check the ball plate and chain mounts. Its pretty safe you just hav to repect stopping distance and other things.

 

[Soundguy]

Our F-450 service truck pulls loads like that on a pintel mount tri-axle trailer often. Rubbertired backhoe/loader to do small sitework.. etc.

Not uncommon .. as far as leagal.. there are big differences between manufacture warranty specs.. and what the DOT will let you license for.. etc... If you have the axles, the chassies usually can be licensed up to way beyond warranty specs...

Soundguy

 

[F350Lawman]

Funny this came up, I was thinking the same thing. Last week the guy down the block mentioned he has a co-worker with a backhoe and trailer but no truck. Seems the guy was in business but no longer. My neighbor was lamenting that he can't make use of the "free" backhoe. The co-worker, who actually works for my neighbor said if he can transport it he is welcome to keep it for awhile and get some jobs done on the property. I guess it is just sitting now and not getting used.

I volunteered to go get it with my F350 dually for him and in exchange he ageed to do some minor tasks with the hoe at my place as well.

It's about 25 miles one way only with one big hill that I can avoid if needed once I see how the load goes. The only deal killer will be hydraulic trailer brakes which I am not equipped to run. I think many of the small local contractors have electric brakes on the trailers and pull them behind small dump trucks as well as pickup style dumptrucks so it SHOULD be ok. Now we'll see if it happens. If not I have another offer for back-hoe use but this guy has no trailer so we have to go about 5 miles through the street.

I don't think trailering it will be a problem as long you drive accordingly.

 

[cowboydoc]

Well its not DOT approved

Ummm yes it is DOT approved. I am approved by DOT to haul 30k with my license plates. The truck mfg. rating is ONLY for warranty issues. As long as you don't go over your axle ratings you are fine. In my case it's my pin weight. As long as my pin weight and axle ratings are within limits I can legally haul up to 30k.

 

[Phred]

Also if you take a look at "pickups" with flat beds its very hard to tell the difference between a F450, F550, and an F350 unless you know what your looking at.

This type of load is a piece of cake for a 450 or 550.

I once saw a dodge 2500 hauling a dozer on a gooseneck trailer with duals! That setup was unsafe at any speed.

Fred

 

[SageBrush]

30k is well over any F-350's GCVWR. Your "approved" by your DMV. Not the DOT, who usually enforces the Federal regulations.

My Dodge is rated for 23K total combined weight. That is the legal weight as per the manufacture. That is the weight amount that most states go by. You can have 80K plates, that dosen't mean for one second the truck was ever meant to run that heavy or that it is "legal" to do so". Meaning the police can issue a ticket if they want to.

Any owners manual has a very clear towing guide.

At 30K (26,001 actually) you are required by Federal Law to have a CDL with a few exceptions including: Farm trucks driven within 150 miles of the farm, service men in millitary service, RVs or non-commercial activity. The truck still needs to be within the weight limits of the manufacture to be "legal".

With that said, most rual police will not enforce DOT requirements on local farmers. RV's are exempt in most states for some reason. Commercial trailers are limited to 10K, after that you need a Class A CDL. In GA we have a non-commercial Class B and Class A for farmers.

There is very little enforcement for non-commercial trucks though. You probably will never have a problem if the DMV let you have 30K plates. Do you have a CDL?

For those interested in hauling over 26,001 in a non-RV or non-farm truck:

Federal Law:

Classes of License:
The Federal standard requires States to issue a CDL to drivers according to the following license classifications:

Class A -- Any combination of vehicles with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.

Class B -- Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 10,000 pounds GVWR.

Class C -- Any single vehicle, or combination of vehicles, that does not meet the definition of Class A or Class B, but is either designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver, or is placarded for hazardous materials.

Commercial Driver's License Exemptions:

(1) Active duty military personnel, members of the reserves and national guard on active
duty (including personnel on full time national guard duty), personnel on part-time training, and
national guard military technicians (civilians who are required to wear military uniforms and are
subject to the code of military justice).
(2) Firefighters and operators of emergency equipment are exempt from having a
commercial driver's license provided their vehicles are equipped with audible and visual signals
and are operated by a person in the employ of a volunteer or paid firefighting organization.
Emergency equipment such as a fire truck, hook and ladder truck, foam or water transporter, or
other vehicles used only in response to emergencies are included.
(3) Farm vehicle operators are exempt from having a commercial driver's license provided:
(a) The vehicle is controlled and operated by a farmer;
(b) Used to transport either agricultural products, farm machinery, farm supplies, or both, to
or from a farm;
(c) Not used in the operations of a common or contract motor carrier; and
(d) Used within 150 miles of a person's farm.
(4) Operators of recreational vehicles are exempt from having a commercial driver's license.
(5) Drivers who are exempted from having a commercial driver's license must comply with
examinations and be licensed in the appropriate Class A, B or C non-commercial drivers
Adopted September 19, 2003 Page 2

COMMERCIAL DRIVER’S LICENSING REQUIREMENTS CHAPTER 1
license. Applicants for Class A and B noncommercial must furnish an affidavit in lieu of a road
test showing a minimum of 3 months or 3,000 miles driving experience in a vehicle which
represents that class.
(6) If members of the national guard, military personnel, firefighters and other operators of
emergency equipment, farmers and operators of recreational vehicles apply for a commercial
driver's license, they will be required to pay the application, driving skills test, and license fees
unless:
(a) They hold a veteran's driver's license.
(b) Attach a DPS-516 to the commercial driver's license application.
(c) Employed as a school bus driver with a city, county, state or federal school system.

 

[cowboydoc]

NO Sage I'm legal with the DOT. I've been checked hundreds of times over the years by numerous weigh stations. I do have a CDL and I do haul commercial. Mfg. recommendations have nothing to do with real life. They only have to do with the mfg. recommendations and for warranty. The only thing the DOT is concerned with is what is my axle weight and what am I licensed to haul up to. As long as I don't exceed those I'm perfectly legal.

 

[F350Lawman]

I agree

I see guys hauling huge loads commercially with 1 ton pickups on the NY thruway too.

By heavy loads I mean gooseneck trailers with 3 full sized vans on them, goosenecks with 10 golf carts, or even 2 large boats for example.

They go right through the weigh station/toll at the beginning of the thruway so they must be legal.

 

[Richard]

This post isn't directed to anyone specifically, but I just want it to be known, I did not, and do not want to start any "towing wars".

I myself am very ignorant of towing issues other than hauling lumber home from the store.

I saw what appeared to be a "regular" pickuptruck (though might have been a dually... ) towing what I presumed to be an outlandish load for it.

I had never in my life seen a "regular" pickup truck pulling a full sized industrial loader/backhoe and it just looked WAY outta wack to me. I had presumed that the only sized vehicle that would be capable of towing something that big was a dump truck....though, now that I think about it, maybe the reason I usually see them towed by dump trucks is so that they have somewhere to put that, which they dig up!! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I saw today, a second "pickup truck" towing another full sized loader/backhoe, but when the truck got near me, it looked more massive than it did at a distance (the one other day WAS a "regular" sized truck, ie, maybe a 350). Today's truck was clearly a larger truck than what I saw the other day.

Richard

 

[F350Lawman]

Hey, don't feel bad. I was and still am amazed at what these guys tow. When I am going down the highway and I see a guy in 3*** series truck from one of the big 3 auto makers towing a huge gooseneck with 2 BIG boats angled skyward, I still am impressed.

I think the real change is the ammount of power these trucks make. Not that many years ago these diesel trucks were making 180 hp and around +-400 lbs of torque now we're at around 325hp/560tq and heading for 350/600 anyday.

Hope they made the brakes better too /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

 

[Richard]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Hope they made the brakes better too )</font>

Maybe when towing a backhoe, you can hook up vehicles brake circut to the hoe's stabilizers and use them like Fred Flinstone brakes /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

(just be cautious of the vehicle next to you when the stabilizers make their downward movement... we in tiny cars dont much appreciate, being crushed)

/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[F350Lawman]

Although it is not my method of choice, the brakes are good enough to stop a decent load in an emergency. Awhile back I towed a big, full of junk travel trailer for someone and naturally a few miles into my 100 mile trip the trailer brakes went. Not as heavy as a backhoe but I stopped OK with some common sense.

Whenever I am towing I try to drive like the trailer brakes might go at any moment just to be safe. A little extra space comes in handy /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif