Unexplained Traces in The Snow

[Industrial Toys]

This thread is specific to a certain recent incident, but is also general. The other day I backed our JD 6200 out of the barn to blow snow. It has been cold here. At time minus 35C in the mornings. The tractor was plugged in (coolant heater only) for a couple of hours. Started but didn't sound happy about it!

I lifted the bucket boom to avoid an obstacle where it was parked and backed out maybe twenty feet and turned sharply. Then I noticed a trail of hydraulic fluid in the arc where I had turned and went to invesigate. The only thing I could see was what looked like a drip on the bucket cylinder on the one side but I never even activated the bucket. And only raised the boom inside the building.

Now that I think about it. Maybe it came from the steering cylinder mounted latitudinaly (sp?) across the front underside. anyway, I carefully observed the snow during my subsequent snow removal operations but noted nothing amiss.

Has anyone experienced any cold seal failures upon initial operation of hydraulic equipment?

In general, for years, I always seem to come accross either hydraulic oil in the snow or totally unexplained coolant traces in the snow where no equipment or vehicles ever seem to show a loss of such fluid. It's hard to say if such things are happening year round, as one would never see the evidence.

 

[NewfieDan]

You may want to keep a close eye on the hydraulic fluid level. If you are seeing traces as you operate, you most likely have a leak. It may not be a bad leak but it is there. The best way to find a leak I have found is to look for a wet spot that collects dust. The usually show up around seals, the wipers on the hydraulic cylinders, and gaskets.

I have operated equipment in colder temps than you describe without leaks. The coldest I personally have operated has been -42 to -45C without leaks. There is a significant amount of warm up time though.

 

[pat32rf]

I have had times when the snow has messed with my steering lines and moved them just enough to leak a bit as they drag on the crusty snow. Seems that they only work loose in the winter.... I have a couple of coolant heaters on mine....and it stays plugged in all night in this weather..

 

[Mace Canute]

...........Has anyone experienced any cold seal failures upon initial operation of hydraulic equipment?...........

Yes. Many years ago in the 70s we were out trying to salvage a power line. It was storming and very cold but our idiot foreman decided abusing the digger truck (and us) was a good idea. We set up at the first pole and I pulled the control lever to raise the boom...nothing happened for a second or two then it very very slowly began to rise and as it did so hydraulic fluid came past the seal on the piston rod but since it was was so cold it had the consistency of grease.

We did make an honest effort to salvage the line but it just wasn't possible; we packed up and headed back in to town.

 

[texasjohn]

hydraulic fluid came past the seal on the piston rod but since it was was so cold it had the consistency of grease.

now THAT'S COLD!!:snowflake::snowflake::snowflake::snowflake:

 

[Industrial Toys]

That's what it looked like, grease! The JD has a closed hydraulic system, so the oil doesn't warm up with the tractor idling. They had installed OEM a heating element in the air space of the transmission but these tended to burn out, so I actually disconnected mine from the block heater. These German engineers need to have their earrings ripped out and then best be FIRED!

 

[pat32rf]

That's what it looked like, grease! The JD has a closed hydraulic system, so the oil doesn't warm up with the tractor idling. They had installed OEM a heating element in the air space of the transmission but these tended to burn out, so I actually disconnected mine from the block heater. These German engineers need to have their earrings ripped out and then best be FIRED!

I often believe that the engineers never actually use what they design! They should be made to do a years maintenance on any machine, changing filters, lubricants etc, outside in the cold!

 

[Industrial Toys]

What kills me, is when they came out with this tractor, they proclaimed "We started with a clean sheet of paper" How STUPID! If you try and actually find out about products and how they work, it's almost impossible! Everything is marketing driven targeted at your average mindless consumer. Or the cost is not even mentioned, just the bi-weekly payment amount! There are pickup trucks being made where you need to raise the cab to get at the spark plugs. Who investigates such things before buying? Shouldn't Motor Trend and the like, figure stuff like this into their evaluations? No, but it's got twelve Big Gulp Cup Holders and storage pouches on the seat backs WITH BUCKLES! Great for when your driving and trying to get something out!

I need to go outside and cool off! I'll stare at the grease smear in the snow for a while!

 

[Dr_Zinj]

Interesting. You might check your lift cylinders for scoring where some of the fluid might be coming out. Don't use your hand though, get a chunk of white cardstock and hold it near the lines and cylinders with the engine running and as close to the same operating conditions that caused the leak traces. Using your hand is a good way to get hydraulic fluid injected into you, and that's absolutely zero fun.

 

[powerscol]

At -31 degrees F (-35C converted), yes you could of had a temporary seal failure. I have been around a lot of construction equipment at -15F where the first few moves on the cylinders leaked, until the seals reset once they warmed up a bit. At very cold temperatures, everything shrinks (get your mind out of the gutter boys) and takes a bit to expand. I suspect if you look up your cylinder specifications, you will probably see your outside the specified operating range until the fluid warms up.

 

[Industrial Toys]

For what it's worth, I am using Low Viscosity JD oil. One of the reasons I am so paranoid about leaks is the hundred bucks a pail price tag! And that JD 6200, it seems has never been without some hydraulic leak it seems. If not that, then a fuel leak. Thought JD was famous for their high quality hydraulics. Wait, I forgot, they started with a clean sheet of paper!

It is so **** cold. It has not gone above freezing here since mid January and it's been a lot colder then that most of the time. My enthusiasm to do anything outside is frozen too. I will look at the hydraulics closer, when it gets warmer, in the mean time just keep an eye on the snow, when and if I have to use it.

 

[DJ54]

I have a small spot in the snow, right below the bucket cylinder on my backhoe, that's been setting since late fall. Temps locally have been recorded @ -15º, -16º in the last few weeks. And that cylinder doesn't leak when operating in normal temps.

 

[orezok]

This is what happens when seals fail due to cold. Be very very wary! :laughing:

 

[varmint]

Sounds a bit extreme, ripping out their earrings! How about their nipple rings, and leave it at that? Very cold temperatures cause interesting problems- the Alaska pipeline project was a hoot to read about. And, in the early 80's, I met a German heavy equipment mechanic who worked up there in the winter, under a canvas tarp, when big dozers broke down in the middle of nowhere. He and his 1" rachet set got 'coptered in and out. Ice roads over lakes only happened in mid winter- a bummer for men and machines.

 

[Hammer Head]

You may have had some ice on one of your cylinders. Just enough to get caught in the seal or deform the seal for a short time.

 

[john_bud]

Hst?

Could be the bypass was allowing fluid out. If it has a bypass... just a guess.