Two loader functions

[TomIre]

Now that I have a grapple, I'm bothered more by not being able to do two loader functions at the same time. For instance, curl and lift at the same time. My dealer said there is a very narrow "window" on the joystick control where that can be done.
I haven't found it! Have you?

 

[K5lwq]

You could replace the valve with a series/parallel type valve. With this type valve the tank port will close allowing the remaining fluid from the first spool to be used in the second. It is limited to flow of course and will operate slower.

A series valve has such a small window to allow for simultaneous operation that it is impractical to utilize.

 

[MossRoad]

Before you had a grapple, could you curl and lift at the same time?

 

[ericm979]

I can't lift and curl at the same time either (3725 with BL20 loader). It doesn't matter what's attached to the loader. I think it's the valve. The cable linkage might make it more difficult. I could lift and curl with my old Kubota even though the lever linkage was worn, so I don't think it's me. Most of the time it is not an issue but every once in a while I wish I could make it work.

 

[npalen]

You could replace the valve with a series/parallel type valve. With this type valve the tank port will close allowing the remaining fluid from the first spool to be used in the second. It is limited to flow of course and will operate slower.

A series valve has such a small window to allow for simultaneous operation that it is impractical to utilize.

That's interesting! I didn't know there was such a thing as a series/parallel type valve. Sounds like I need to do some reading.

 

[K5lwq]

That's interesting! I didn't know there was such a thing as a series/parallel type valve. Sounds like I need to do some reading.

Just be mindful that it is not perfect and the cylinder with least resistance will move first. Mine works with a 10 GPM pump but it is slow. Higher flow would help a lot.

 

[TomIre]

Before you had a grapple, could you curl and lift at the same time?

No, I couldn't. Sorry I wasn't clear. Just didn't seem to need it as much with the bucket. With the grapple it would make a few things easier.

 

[FastEddieR]

My 4720H with BL20 can curl and lift/lower at the same time. Unfortunately for me I can't seem to find the right spot with the joystick when I actually NEED to do it. When there is a load in the bucket or on the forks it is almost impossible to move smoothly, it jerks and bounces unless I hold the stick near the base and move it VERY slowly and only a tiny bit. It's kind of frustrating.

 

[MossRoad]

No, I couldn't. Sorry I wasn't clear. Just didn't seem to need it as much with the bucket. With the grapple it would make a few things easier.

Good. I was wondering if something changed when the grapple was added.

On my machine I use that function when I have my bucket/forks on because the way my loader geometry is made up, the angle of the bucket/forks changes constantly with lift/lower function. It would be nice to have auto-leveling geometry, but that's a different subject.

 

[Branson Bob]

You could replace the valve with a series/parallel type valve. With this type valve the tank port will close allowing the remaining fluid from the first spool to be used in the second. It is limited to flow of course and will operate slower.

A series valve has such a small window to allow for simultaneous operation that it is impractical to utilize.

So if it operates slower with the series/parallel valve would the next mod be to replace the pump with a higher volume one?

 

[K5lwq]

So if it operates slower with the series/parallel valve would the next mod be to replace the pump with a higher volume one?

My Kioti LK 2554 originally cam with a 8 GPM pump and it was slow and getting weak so I replaced it with a 10 GPM one that was an upgrade for the LK3054. I just had to change the studs to bolts and it fit perfectly. Easy in this case.

I replaced the valve with a 3 spool to add a grapple. It took a while to source the valve I wanted and wound up with 2 because I did not like the first replacement for the loader. I design flaw in the valve body caused lowering the boom to be uncontrollable. Both of these valves were the parallel/series type valves that allowed two functions at same time. In fact I have done all three functions at the same time but with no weight.

Your Branson has a 13 GPM pump so it would perform better on the Branson. I do use multiple functions for certain situations but normally I find it faster just to do one at a time.

 

[Branson Bob]

My Kioti LK 2554 originally cam with a 8 GPM pump and it was slow and getting weak so I replaced it with a 10 GPM one that was an upgrade for the LK3054. I just had to change the studs to bolts and it fit perfectly. Easy in this case.

I replaced the valve with a 3 spool to add a grapple. It took a while to source the valve I wanted and wound up with 2 because I did not like the first replacement for the loader. I design flaw in the valve body caused lowering the boom to be uncontrollable. Both of these valves were the parallel/series type valves that allowed two functions at same time. In fact I have done all three functions at the same time but with no weight.

Your Branson has a 13 GPM pump so it would perform better on the Branson. I do use multiple functions for certain situations but normally I find it faster just to do one at a time.

Thanks K5. So in your estimation (and I won't hold you to it) I could change the valves but keep the existing pump?

 

[K5lwq]

Thanks K5. So in your estimation (and I won't hold you to it) I could change the valves but keep the existing pump?

It certainly will make a difference. If you have room, getting stacked valves gives you more options than the monoblock valve. For example, you can get load checks on each spool which I believe would be beneficial if you are doing heavy lifting with pallet forks. My valves only have one check valve. Works ok but have had situations where the load would drop a bit before lifting.

Whatever you get, don't buy a Youli valve. Not impressed with there quality. Walvoil valves are very good quality. Made in Italy.

 

[ptsg]

It certainly will make a difference. If you have room, getting stacked valves gives you more options than the monoblock valve. For example, you can get load checks on each spool which I believe would be beneficial if you are doing heavy lifting with pallet forks. My valves only have one check valve. Works ok but have had situations where the load would drop a bit before lifting.

Whatever you get, don't buy a Youli valve. Not impressed with there quality. Walvoil valves are very good quality. Made in Italy.

The used valve I have for my homemade loader was from a backhoe loader, either a Case or a CAT. It does have all those features like load check valves, Float with anti cavitation valve, work port relief valves on one circuit and more stuff. I do believe it also have a parallel/series combination but I had to swap the sections around to be able to build a joystick, so I think I might have lost that feature. I always wonder if I had leave it the way I got it, how the loader would behave, specially with two functions.

I've never learned about those parallel/series/tandem combinations and probably should. I just saw it on the literature from my valve and looked a bit complex at first glance. It's made by Rexroth.

Either way, I can do both functions at the same time, it's just a bit hard to find the sweet spot because my joystick is not quite perfect. Also I went a bit overboard on the size of the cylinders and it's a bit too slow with two functions.

Also, Bob's tractor also have the 8.9 GPM main pump with 13cc. Same as the 15 series and some of the 20 series. The 25 series seems to use a 16 cc pump which would put out 11 GPM and the bigger models of the 20 series uses a 15 cc pump with 10.3GPM. I suppose one could get the bigger 16 cc pump.

EDIT: I'm using Branson website as reference for the size of pumps and we all know that the info is not always right there.

 

[ericm979]

I tried this again today when I was putting the tractor away. (nothing in the bucket, about 1500 rpm). I can do it sometimes but the sweet spot is very narrow.

This makes me wonder if I could tune up the cable system with lube or adjustment to make it work better.

 

[ptsg]

Never messed with a cable setup before. Is there any adjustments on those?

 

[K5lwq]

The used valve I have for my homemade loader was from a backhoe loader, either a Case or a CAT. It does have all those features like load check valves, Float with anti cavitation valve, work port relief valves on one circuit and more stuff. I do believe it also have a parallel/series combination but I had to swap the sections around to be able to build a joystick, so I think I might have lost that feature. I always wonder if I had leave it the way I got it, how the loader would behave, specially with two functions.

I've never learned about those parallel/series/tandem combinations and probably should. I just saw it on the literature from my valve and looked a bit complex at first glance. It's made by Rexroth.

Either way, I can do both functions at the same time, it's just a bit hard to find the sweet spot because my joystick is not quite perfect. Also I went a bit overboard on the size of the cylinders and it's a bit too slow with two functions.

Also, Bob's tractor also have the 8.9 GPM main pump with 13cc. Same as the 15 series and some of the 20 series. The 25 series seems to use a 16 cc pump which would put out 11 GPM and the bigger models of the 20 series uses a 15 cc pump with 10.3GPM. I suppose one could get the bigger 16 cc pump.

EDIT: I'm using Branson website as reference for the size of pumps and we all know that the info is not always right there.

I understand Bobs primary is 8.9 but I referenced ball park total because on my Kioti it was 8GPM with a priority valve for power steering. It robs a good bit of flow from my loader. That said, I do think he would see an improvement from a better quality valve.

 

[ericm979]

Never messed with a cable setup before. Is there any adjustments on those?

There's likely to be cable tension adjusters but probably not anything else. The loader valve and cables are not in any of my manuals. I'll have to take it apart and see what's in there.

 

[Branson Bob]

Good conversation. Thanks you guys.

I'll probably live with the stock hydraulics as having two functions simultaneously working will likely not be worth the money it would cost me. If I have the time I might get a quote for it though.