turnoffs and downsides to old iron-survey

[Soundguy]

Howdy guys. This is an info / opinion gathering survey I'm doing to get the general idea on how people view old iron in general. What features / options you have come across that you deem undesireable, turn you off.. feel that it hurts value, or is just generally negative. This covers design features (flaws? ).. (un)suitability for specific purpose, etc. This is an open opin based discussion.. you don't have to own old iron to have an opinion. If you do own old iron.. or have owned / operated old iron.. give me the play by play. If you have considered old iron when you were shopping to buy a tractor.. what changed your mind.. .. or.. as a buyer.. What are the main reasons you wouldn't buy old iron.

I'll start the thread off with my next message, with my experiences with units i've owned / operated /seen / smelled /touched.. etc.

Soundguy

 

[Farmwithjunk]

WOW! This'll make me think a LOT harder that I normally do on a monday morning.

I guess that I'll break my answers into 2 catagories.Old Iron to be used vs. Old Iron to be collected.

Using a tractor calls for a few basics. I don't know how they did it before 3-point hitches became so common. GOOD brakes are a must. (Some old tractors barely had brakes) Electric start and lights seem like a must have. Comfortable seats are a good thing. Power steering is worth it's weight in gold. ROPS. Beyond that, a bunch of small stuff.

Old Iron to be collected. Hmmmmmmmm! As long as it'll fit on my trailer and in my barn, anything goes. The oldest tractor I currently own isn't THAT old by some standards. (1957) It is from an era that had all my "gotta have to use every day" list. If I can find one, and it's not too terribly expensive, my next oldie will be a "styled G" John Deere. (mid to late 1940's) The "hand start" versions are rare and pricey. I'll settle for an electric start model.

It's sorta funny. The very things that make a tractor seem "un-useable" for everyday work just make them more valueable as collectors items.

 

[Soundguy]

Ok.. I'll start with units I've owned.. by manufacturer.

ford

avoid the SOS trannied units like the plague. Usually cost as much money to R&R the tranny if it fails as the dang tractor cost...

2n... straddle brakes... r&l brake on either side... kinda makes you think when you hit the brakes, and want to clutch.. Setup can be adjusted so clutch linkage operates the left brake... though usually you see units that are out of adjustment, ( left brake not used ) and right brake worn out.
Front mount distribuitor. I don't have a problem with them.. but ti is about the #1 gripe I hear from ford owners... "why ford put the distrib in front where it is hard to get to".. course.. i think they overlook the fact that it is a 2-bolt removal, and 15 minute roud trip job to remove, install points set, tme, and reinstal... guess people don't read the manual? /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Spark plug wire tube for front mount engines. From a collector point of view, these are rare.. why? beccause they are so danged hard to snake (4) 8mm wires thru when they were designed for 7mm wires way back when.. most of the time they are removed.. or the wires are tied to the side of it.

JD trike letter series:

Difficult to get on and off.. especially if it has fenders.. If no fenders.. then you can usually scale the side of an axle and tire and climb up from the back...

On my B the first time i climbed on from the front left I stepped on the manual starter switch... Big NO NO on a magneto tractor.. they start right up! Can't get on from front right due to hand clutch. Now.. if it has no fenders.. not as bad.. but DO remeember that when you loose traction in mud... Your backside is about the only thing left clean once them big wheels spin...

IH

My biggest grip is that 2 piece radiator design with cast base.. cub has it... what a PAIN. Same goes for the rear final dive oil sumps.. gotta remove fixed drawbar and any mounted equipment to simply chage oil!?!?

Yanmar

Cramped operator space.. and it isn't just because it is a small tractor.. my unit is 17/21 hp... That's almost twice the power of my IH cub and is over 2x the hp of my allis G.. and the cub has more op space.. and the G is just plain roomy.

General turn offs. Fear about lack of parts, sometimes lack of R&R info if you do find the parts.. lots of the old guys keeping this stuff alive are passing on.. but their info isn't....

'Auction' paint jobs.. Not all are bad dals.. but you gott wonder what it is hiding!

Rotten rims.. Ok.. I know CACL is cheap loading.. but how hard is it to keep that tube sealed to keep the CACL off the metal rims. If ya got a leaky tube.. don't add air every 2 weeks... fix the darn thing! Cause 50 years down the road.. i might be buying your tractor and I'd like the original rims!

Hand clutches... gosh.. gotta get used to them.. I don't know how many times i stomped the fire out of my JD-B's left brake trying to get that sucker to roll to a stop while heading into the barn /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Water pumps... Ok.. JD and Yanmar... was the water pump really that much of a savings to leave off?? /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Any others?

Soundguy

 

[RonR]

First unit: 49 JD M wide front end. Good power, small, easy to work on. Had cal in both FRONT/Rears. Fronts & rears had WHEEL WEIGHTS also. A bear to steer since it had no PS. Removed the front weights helped a bunch. Used it at Dad's for 10 yrs and sold it to a collector. (Last five years, I had to store it outside and it faded big time from the nice paint I'd put on it).

Second unit: Ford 861 gas, SOS tranny. Grandpa was original owner and he ABUSED it badly. Amazed it still worked at all. Nice utility tractor--but I had little use for it. Sold it after 2 yrs.

Third Unit: 1929 McCormack Deering 22-36 (model 15-30). Grandpa's FIRST tractor, he bought it new for $800. A real BEAST. Hadn't run since '45. I got it in 82. It had sat outside with nothing on the exhaust all those years. Couldn't believe when I got it home (had to hire a semi/flatbed, since it weighed 7000 pounds and was on steel) and took the exhaust manifold off. Mud Dauber wasps had built nests and sealed the entire access to the cylinders closed! There was only a little surface rust in the cylinders and the motor was not stuck.

Took me five years (we had to babies in the interim) to get it running! It was a beast (did I mention that?)! Had a 4 cylinder, 455 cu in motor. Idle was about 800 and full throttle was 1200RPMs.

Grandpa had "overhauled" it once as I found the original rods/pistons in the scrap pile. Also found a NEW sleeve! One of the wrist pins had worked loose after his overhaul, and it cut an 1/8" x 1" groove in one sleeve. Blowby was terrible, but I never got around to replacing it. I wanted to see if it would run first.... Once I got it running, it would alway start on 2nd crank--full choke it one spin, then off and it would start on 2nd!

Mom in law grew up driving this tractor doing field work and HATED it. She had a tough life. I could barely steer it--don't know how she managed.

We moved and I gave the tractor to a buddy, after a local museum turned me down. Lost track of it now.

Fourth unit: Bota BX2200-- a wonderful tractor. Like driving a cad!

Next unit: Hope to someday get some more space and a '50-70 utility tractor. Would love a JD3010. Will probably be a 30HP something though.

Ron

 

[SouthernMan]

Certainly one of my favorite subjects - old iron. First, a plug for RFDTV - they regularly televise tractor programs such as Machinery of the Past, Tractor Tour (this week, they're showcasing the tour in Lawrenceburg, TN, called "The Crossroads of Dixie" tour). Anyway, if you love old iron (including steam engines), this is "must see" tv.

In general, I love old iron of any make. From a purely emotional point of view, the old ones just have a mystique about them. I was raised on MF, from 20's and 30's up to my current 471. In my opinion, MF (and Ford) had a distinct advantage over much of their competition due to the Ferguson lift system. Virtually every other make utilized a 2-pt. hitch of some type, while some had no hydraulic lift at all. Hated starting them, especially that old 20 with the "armstrong" start.
Allis-Chalmers - my favorite of the oldies. I have a '58 D14 and a '47 C. Love the engines, the hand clutch on the D's("power director"), the power of the WD45's, and not least, the Tennessee Vol orange....Hate the 2pt snap-hitch and the search for parts these days.
JD - love the design through the years - they always led the market in design.
IH, Case - not too familiar with em...

Generally, if I want to collect one, I don't care much about hp, lift capacity, etc. - it's much more emotional than practical.

If I'm gonna work it, (like the D14), then I want a 3pt hitch (the D14 is converted to a 3 pt), good hydraulics, good steering (not necessarily power), and a good engine from which to start (wet sleeves a must!), conversion to 12 volt, etc.

SM

 

[ed3357]

I love to watch the old timers working, and I hate to see them rusting away out in the fields. A couple of observations:
1. My dad had a Allis Chalmers D12. It leaked gas around the bulb. I consider it to be a design defect if it leaks gas. Dad kept pretty good care of it, kept it in a barn, etc. I've noticed other A-C tractors with this leak.
2. Implements couldn't be interchanged with different tractor makes. 3ph sure makes it easy now.
3. My old popper --JD model H -- doesn't have a pto. It was designed to replace a team of horses. She's retired to the parade and hayride circuit now. Not a design flaw, but not a selling point now.
4. Hard to climb up in some of the old birds. Fords are the easiest to climb on.
5. I haven't driven a lot of tractors, but the transmissions for certain makes weren't made for easy use.
Eric

 

[California]

Ok, I'll play. I saw your post on the other thread that started this question.

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Yanmar

Cramped operator space.. and it isn't just because it is a small tractor. )</font>

Yanmar is the only old iron I'm familiar with so my comments are limited to that.

I'm small, 5' 5", probably about the same size as the Asians these tractors were designed for. And my Yanmar fits like a fighter pilot. That feels small even for me.

I can't think of any other downside that is Yanmar-specific.

One limitation that comes with operating any non-syncro transmission is that it doesn't allow shifting down as a grade steepens. And the combination of no power steering and a heavy loader teaches you to stop where you can get moving again before you need to turn the wheel.

Also I wish the paint didn't show this tractor's 25 years but I don't intend to restore the unit while the mechanicals are like new. I've never had a problem with steering, lubrication, dash instruments, injector hub, position control, maintenance documentation, parts that may no longer be available after the end of the model run, etc like I've read about on other tractors. Everything simply works.

Really, I can't think of any turnoffs. Operation, maintenance, and reliability are everything I would hope to find in any equipment used or new.

 

[Egon]

Common old tractor drawbacks.

Six volt system, lack of live PTO, lack of power steering, no provisions for loader, Many were very noisy, poor seats but many had the advantage of being able to stand, No cabs but a few with heat housers, More starting proceduures for some and difficulty starting in cold weather, No hydraulics, Large turn radius, rough ride from steel wheels.

Egon

 

[ptfarmermd]

My only experience was with a 1949 Ferguson TO-20, but here is my turnoffs and downsides.

No ROPS.
No seatbelts.
No safety switches in case the operator came off.
No PTO shields.
No loaders unless you customize.
No live PTO.
No Front Wheel Assist, until the later old iron.
No power steering, unless you provided it. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
No screens for the radiator, so you had to clean it off every hour or so, so it would not overheat.
Not very economical, at least not the one I grew up driving. It uses about 1 1/2 gallons of gas or more per hour at PTO speed. My new diesel for comparison uses about 3/4 of a gallon per hour at PTO speed.
6 volt electrical system.
No position control, at least not on mine.

 

[redlevel]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( My only experience was with a 1949 Ferguson TO-20, but here is my turnoffs and downsides.

No ROPS.
No seatbelts.
No safety switches in case the operator came off.
No PTO shields.
)</font>

That was from a time when it was assumed that people would use common sense, and if they didn't, their family didn't sue the manufacurer.