Trying to make a difficult decision

[CinderSchnauzer]

CS - thanks. Didn't know that there was such a huge difference in pricing. Seems strange to me since Canadian dollars are so much closer to the US dollar now.

I once wrote to GM to ask why the base Corvette was $15K more in Canada and the Silverado trucks built in Oshawa, ON were $10K more. The answer, as I interpreted, after cutting through the PR spin doctoring was "because we can get away with it"

 

[LostInTheWoods]

Upon doing some research locally I have found that the uglier / boxier Honda Element typically found in FWD, rapidly goes down the depreciation curve (given a pretty niche buyer) compared to the sleeker CRV, typically found in AWD. I've seen a 2007 and 2006 FWD both with less than 100000 km for ~$11000-12000. They might be worth considering as they would be ideal for hauling the dogs or a dump run.

My choices boil down to:

1. Keep the truck. It will be paid off in 3.5 years. Until then find a few other corners to cut and use extra income that tends to come my way to cover any shortfall.

2. Sell the truck. Buy as cheap as possible a commute vehicle as I am prepared to without regretting my daily driver. Have it paid off in a year.

3. Sell the truck. Buy a 2009 Forester or CRV. Will take me about 3 years to pay off but I will save about $300 monthly on payments and $200 on gas.

4. Sell the truck. Buy a new Forester or CRV. Will take me about 5 years to pay off but again I will save about $500 monthly.

Right now I am leaning towards 2.

Thanks for all the thoughts.

Good to "see" you again.

I think you're leaning in the right direction. Look for a cheap, but reliable daily driver for that commute. Is 4WD an absolute necessity? Although Kentucky is obviously not a Canadian province, we do get an occasional snow in the 4-10 inch range (that's up to 25.4cm for you canucks ).

We have a FWD Mazde Tribute (aka Ford Escape), now at 113K miles that does very well in snow. As long as the terrain isn't too unforgiving in your area, perhaps FWD will work? Highway mileage for the V6 20-21mph. Four cylinder would be even better, I'd imagine. V6 has decent tow capacity for a small SUV (3500lbs or about 1500kg). Reliability has been excellent...only repair so far has been to replace water pump.

Use the savings between the current truck's costs and the cheaper replacement and buy a trailer for those occasional hauling needs, then put the rest of the savings into a fund. Accumulate money in that fund until you can purchase another daily commuter after the first one wears out. If you can realistically save $350/month, then after 4 years, you have a bit over $16K to buy another good commuter. You might even squeeze out a few more dollars if its an interest-bearing account.

I have a 63 mile (roughly 100km?) commute. I have determined that for my personal needs, there's no justifiable reason to have anything other than an inexpensive, reliable commuter.

Regards,

Lost

 

[ultrarunner]

I knew we couldn't afford to drive a truck, so for 5 years we used a 5x8 utility trailer with a suzuki sidekick then toyota matrix to bring most of the materials for our house, deliver about 1000 square bales a year, haul ATV's, bring home farm equipment (my 18 ft tedder came home on it, as did my suzuki samurai).

This year I found myself needing to move bigger stuff so I bought an older 1 ton truck for 1200$. I've put about 500 km on it, too much for gas to use it all the time. We commute in our car (50,000 km/yr).

I won't eat the depreciation, and the insurance is just liability since its not worth much.

I hate making car payments almost as far as its depreciating.

I'm a big fan of trailers... 5 year tag costs around $35 and it is so much more convenient to haul things locally... easy to load, low to the ground, no worries about scratches and dents... well you get the picture... also, almost zero maintenance, no separate insurance... wheel bearings and tires cover 99% maintenance wise.

A family friend built a great cabin in the Sierra back in the 50's... he hauled everything behind his 1950 Plymouth with a home made box trailer...

My trailer will haul more than my truck easily.

I started my business with a $800 1972 Plymouth Valiant with a lumber rack and a utility trailer... still have both.

 

[schmism]

I still think he needs to keep the truck he has and just pay it off at this point and drive it for another 5-10 years afterward.

Do you really think that will happen? its been my experience, that everyone i have run across that faces a similar problem... didnt trade in and or sell a 15 year old vehicle(they bought new) to buy the brand new one. They traded in some 3-5 year old something they were still makeing payments on (on had just recently payed off)

The idea that people drive the same car for more than 7 years is rare. over 10 years is unheard of. Ive owned my toyota truck for 11 years now... feels like a LIFE TIME ago when i bough it! it has 240K miles on it.

After moveing our house to a nearly 100% cash (as in green cash) household you quickly learn that makeing ends meat has everything to do with the money you can save TODAY! not in a month, not in a year not in 10 years.

So if you can sell the truck and not be upside down you can easly save $400+ today! right away you start seeing the saveings add up.

Of course the best option is to use $5000 of savings, buy something with cash and have no car payment period. then that $800 a month you pay back to yourself to the saveings account and guess what... 7 months later you have your money back. and every month after that your makeing an additional 800 a month in CASH. Course the smart guy continues to save 400-600 of that for the next car purchase or the occasional repair bill.

point is if you do something like the above, and you pick something with a decent reliability record in that same 3 years you could have put something like $25K in CASH into the bank.



I see most of this thread as a discussion of what "new" vehicle to get when the real question you need to answer is, how much money do i want to save?
Once you figure out that question, THEN and ONLY then can you set about finding a vehicle that is best able to meet your needs for what your willing to spend (or in this case save).

 

[Dick L]

This might not be for every one but it made a less costly truck that has served and still serving me well.

I paid 6,000 for this 1994 7.3 diesel Ford E 350 truck with 40,000 miles on it. I put 2,000 more dollars into making it look like this. I did all the work myself. So I then had a 8,000 dollar truck and has hauled loads to and from many states.

Some day I might even paint the truck bed. It is kinda my trade mark as the ugly truck.

 

[mjncad]

The idea that people drive the same car for more than 7 years is rare. over 10 years is unheard of. Ive owned my toyota truck for 11 years now... feels like a LIFE TIME ago when i bough it! it has 240K miles on it.

I'm definitely in the rare camp as I bought my Accord new in 1995 and would drive it anywhere without qualms. It has about 147,000 miles on it.

My bought new 1999 F-250 has under 36,000 miles on it. Yes, you can see how much I use it; but I'm happy with it.

Before that I somehow coaxed 150,000 miles out of an '83 S-10 pickup. What a POS that thing was. I got rid of it in 1995.

 

[aczlan]

If I were in your shoes, I would probably get a Volvo S70, V70 or XC70 (if you want a FWD/AWD car) or a 740, 940, 960, S90 or V90 if you prefer RWD. If you cant get through a road in a Volvo with snows on all 4 corners, it is too nasty to be out.

For example, there is a 2003 XC70 (FWD platform AWD car) with 155000Kms available in Toronto for ~$6K (here).

That will get you a fairly new car that will give you 13.06L/100KM (7.65Km/L, 18 MPG) to 7.84L/100KM (13.75Km/L, 30 MPG) depending on the car and how you drive.
At that point, maintenance wise, will probably need some front end parts soon, but with the proper tires it will get you anywhere you want to go.
That car will need a timing belt at about 200,000KMs.

Just my $0.02

Aaron Z

 

[EE_Bota]

Canada is an interesting place...similar enough to the US were we would not feel lost there, but yet different in so many ways. A trip through Ontario farming country is a fascinating trip for people with my sensibilities. Some of the barns alone are worth the trip.

Some of my buddies near Stratford area can do about as well with rear wheel drive as many of us can do with four wheel drive.

And the economics are different. I have the same commute as the OP, but I don't understand his costs at all. And the costs on the truck look different as well. I believe him, it is just the difference in costs make it dicey to comment with any real authority.

What can I comment on with some authority:

I can vouch for Subarus. I have always had at least one since my teenage years.

I can vouch for the concept of using a trailer to avoid having to have a truck because that has been my strategy for the last 5 yrs.

I think the farm and the house make sense all on their own for a variety of reasons. But if I may offer some advice: be very stern, cold, and calculating about what you do with that land. You and your family can be quite happy and content there without any animals at all. Make all animals (except a security pet) pay their own way.

 

[slowzuki]

Trucks are about 20% more expensive here, fuel is about 20% more, insurance etc compared to the US. From looking at our mileage rates, a full size 4wd truck is about 3x the price per km.

With 50,000 km year commute, vehicle is my biggest expense. Fuel alone is about 2500$/yr in my small car, if I drove that using the truck it would be about 7000$/yr. Figure in 16,000$ compact car vs 35,000$ 1/2 ton payments, the insurance etc.

Even winter tires, the car is about 350$ vs 1100$ for the truck. Both last about 2 winter seasons.

 

[clemsonfor]

If I were in your shoes, I would probably get a Volvo S70, V70 or XC70 (if you want a FWD/AWD car) or a 740, 940, 960, S90 or V90 if you prefer RWD. If you cant get through a road in a Volvo with snows on all 4 corners, it is too nasty to be out.

For example, there is a 2003 XC70 (FWD platform AWD car) with 155000Kms available in Toronto for ~$6K (here).

That will get you a fairly new car that will give you 13.06L/100KM (7.65Km/L, 18 MPG) to 7.84L/100KM (13.75Km/L, 30 MPG) depending on the car and how you drive.
At that point, maintenance wise, will probably need some front end parts soon, but with the proper tires it will get you anywhere you want to go.
That car will need a timing belt at about 200,000KMs.

Just my $0.02

Aaron Z

My inlaws bought a used s70 and that thing was junk. I dont think it had 100K when they got it, it was an 03 or something. It had all kind of problems, the windows did not roll up right and it seemed to always bee in the shop for something and was always $400-900 everytime. They bought it used but it came with all the service records and they were pretty meticulous. It just seemed to have these major things go out faily often in the 2 years or so they had it. I think if i remember right a brake booster was one of those.

 

[fiveacrefarmer]

Budgets are tight all over. I'd recommend selling the truck and buying a VERY fuel efficient car. I own a $4000 Honda civic that gets me almost 40 MPG. I have my old beater truck, too. Neither one is pretty and their both noisy, but I'm not digging a hole in my bank account.

The truck's paid off and the Honda note runs $100 per month.

Save up and keep your eyes open for an inexpensive truck that meets the most basic requirements.

Don't let pride or excuses put you out of your home and farm. Haul hay in the van for a while.

 

[Soundguy]

I'm definitely in the rare camp as I bought my Accord new in 1995 and would drive it anywhere without qualms. It has about 147,000 miles on it.

My bought new 1999 F-250 has under 36,000 miles on it. Yes, you can see how much I use it; but I'm happy with it.

Before that I somehow coaxed 150,000 miles out of an '83 S-10 pickup. What a POS that thing was. I got rid of it in 1995.

I am too.. my dodge is going on 11 ys now..

had a 90 ford mini van traded in 09 on a clunker deal..

I usually run mine till there is no good left in them.

soundguy

 

[LBrown59]

Do you really think that will happen? its been my experience, that everyone i have run across that faces a similar problem... didnt trade in and or sell a 15 year old vehicle(they bought new) to buy the brand new one. They traded in some 3-5 year old something they were still makeing payments on (on had just recently payed off)

The idea that people drive the same car for more than 7 years is rare. over 10 years is unheard of. Ive owned my toyota truck for 11 years now... feels like a LIFE TIME ago when i bough it! it has 240K miles on it.

After moveing our house to a nearly 100% cash (as in green cash) household you quickly learn that makeing ends meat has everything to do with the money you can save TODAY! not in a month, not in a year not in 10 years.

I have a 1989 Nissan pickup i bought new 21 years ago this month.
Still runs and looks like new with only 47000 miles on it.

 

[mjncad]

As a friend of mine living in Toronto tells me, "Canadians, especially Ontarians love to pay taxes." If there is as much Gummint nannyism up there as I suspect, that will drive up the cost of everything.

 

[canoetrpr]

Do you really think that will happen? its been my experience, that everyone i have run across that faces a similar problem... didnt trade in and or sell a 15 year old vehicle(they bought new) to buy the brand new one. They traded in some 3-5 year old something they were still makeing payments on (on had just recently payed off)

The idea that people drive the same car for more than 7 years is rare. over 10 years is unheard of.

FWIW - so far, while I have bought my previous vehicles new and taken the depreciation hit on the steep part of the curve - first few years - it has not bothered me much because I have kept them for a good long time.

My truck replaced my 1999 Honda Accord with 300000 km on it - which I purchased brand new 10 years before the truck. I would have kept it going as my commute car but it was 5 speed and had the tightest clutch that you could ever imagine. So much that I've injured my back with my time in that car.

My 2005 Odyssey that the DW drives - which was purchased brand new, now has 200000 km on it. We will be keeping it until it dies.

There are some interesting differences I have gathered from some things that we have to consider in the great white north here and I am guessing from the parts of the USA many of you are from. I'm sure it is not much different from the northern states that get as much weather as we do.

For starters, 10 or 12 years is pretty much what we would consider the life of a car up here. The salt on the road in the winter and just the temperatures if you ask me, tend to lower the lives of our vehicles. Thus I think the age vs. mileage equation is often not the same. Heck, I find that I have to rust proof annually to get 10-12 years rust free.

I'm still keeping my options open and will make a final call in the spring. My situation is not quite so desperate as it might have sounded like from my first post. If I truly could not afford it, my truck and every other hobby that I have would be gone.

There are an interesting set of variables to consider including:
- The depreciation hit that I have already taken on the first couple years of the truck.
- Transaction costs (sales taxes etc.)
- Will I be kicking my self and hating my drive if I go to a much cheaper car?
- The cost of a new set of snows and rims for whatever new ride I might get.
- If I don't go with something really really cheap as a commuter car that I can get paid off in a year then the delta in savings starts to make less sense.
- Cost of a used trailer.
- Cost of a dog trailer. One reason I have the truck is that I participate in a sport with my dogs and I have a dog box mounted in my truck. This complicates things a bit. Having my dog(s) in my car makes a mess of things quickly - which is one reason I moved to the truck to begin with.

After some looking around at vehicles I would be happy driving on my commute, I am coming up with stuff that would sell for $15000 or so + taxes + winter tires + trailer + possibly a dog trailer and taking a big hit on my dog box.

The equation is tilting towards keeping the truck as DiamondPilot was suggesting and driving it as I had planned - for a good 10+ years - whatever the life of it is.

I've appreciated all the thoughts. You guys are awesome for getting someone to consider all sides of the equation. Even if I do hang on to the truck, I am more convinced than ever that I need to bank the money once it is paid off - to save for whatever next vehicle will be needed to replace my DW's van - and a cash purchase is the way to go - even if it means purchasing used - which she will be perfectly fine with.

 

[Diamondpilot]

I think you are going about this the right way. The selling of the truck just does not make sense. You need it and you have taken most of the hit. Its probably worth $25000 used and it just does not make sense to spend $20000 on a used one with 4 times the miles and no know history that is not what you want or do what you need.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

Chris

 

[not2old]

As a friend of mine living in Toronto tells me, "Canadians, especially Ontarians love to pay taxes." If there is as much Gummint nannyism up there as I suspect, that will drive up the cost of everything.

Well, here in B.C. I hate taxes. A new diesel pickup would cost about $50,000.00 or more. (I buy the fanciest, top model for all the politicians, so I'll be damned if I will buy less for myself) The taxes on this are over $6000.00 and one of the reasons I still have my 1990 truck (bought new) with 412,000 kilometers. I've had one year maintenance at $4500.00 and one at $3000.00. Average is less than $1000.00 Anyone can drive a new one, it only takes MORE MONEY

 

[canoetrpr]

not2old - that 1990 looks like she's in pretty darn good shape - especially for a 20 year old truck!

I do love diesel myself and wish there were generally new diesel options.

Rumours were that the big 3 were all working on small diesel engines for their 1/2 ton trucks. Did not seem to materialize. Ford has just put out a new gas 5.0L v8 to replace the 5.4L I have and has instead gone the route of a 3.5L V6 gas with a turbo as the fuel economy option.

 

[mjncad]

I hate taxes too Not2old.

 

[clemsonfor]

Well Canoetrpr. I hope you decide to cut somewhere else then, like less cable , lower internet package, lower the heat, cyber comute 1 day a week. Get rid of half the cows or something. I know the feeling when one month i spend more than the wife and i make and the feeling when i get when its 2 or 3 in a row. I hate it and could not live with it for years till the truck is paid off. In my opinion you are still not looking at this the right way. But after all you asked for advise we advised but you and you only make and have to live with the decision you made.

If you have to pay for that truck for 3 more years at $200 more than you make a month that is $7,200 out of your savings. This is assuming that there will not be an out of warrenty repair on the truck, no repairs on your van, no PM or wear items on either of those vehicles. I will only put that total up to $9,000 for both vehicles which i think is low, considering you may pay $400 for a brake job, and it sounds like you dont wrench on your stuff at all or to indepth so i feel this is very conservative esp. if a shop is performing anything but oil changes. I feel that there is no way you will take an $8-9K loss by getting out of that truck. I have a friend who her and her fiance just sold both their 2 year old trucks to get out of the payments and they had no trouble and they were sold within 24hours each. Hers was a landscapers 2500HD truck with a GN hitch so it was no secret that it towed either.

As far as the dog. I bet the last row of seats in the van folds down flat and i bet that you can get one or 2, depending on how many dogs you have, of those x-large pet crates for $50 from walmart like i have to put my dog in the Toyota. This keeps a wet dog off the carpet and all the wet and mud contained to the plastic cage and off the interior. So no you would not need a special dog trailer, now if you carry like 10 beagles for rabbit hunting or a pack of hounds for fox hunting, you may need a trailer. But just one or 2 or three for show trials or hunting you can get away with 2 plastic crates inside the van.

That said I do not know your finances so yes i have no idea of your savings bonous potential, can and how fast the wife could pull some parttime work if need be. Only you know this and can decide.