Trying to hire and they are all "Drawing"

[77transam]

When I was in Fl. a couple of years ago, had a friend who was on unemployment and food stamps. If I recall correctly, he got around $240.00 a week UE and $210 a month FS. That's $1,170.00 income a month without having to do anything 'cept walk to the mailbox!!!:confused2: His rent was around 500 or so, utilities included.

I offered him a job as a laborer with the framing co. I was working with at the time, starting at $10.00 an hr. He said thanks, but no thanks. After taxes, fuel and food, he wouldn't be making as much as he was, sitting at home in the a/c, sleeping in, drinking beer and eating ribeyes for breakfast!!!:laughing:

I know that nowadays people don't have the same work ethic many did years ago. Many don't feel any shame in milking the system for everything they can. Why work menial labor for menial wage when you can live the "subsidized" life?

Sad fact is, it's hard to make it most places with even a "decent" wage. Min. wage is what? $7.25 an hr? Are you kidding me ?? Who out here can survive on that alone? Rent, basic utilities, fuel/insurance (hope your car's paid for!) will eat that up QUICK! Then you gotta eat, and buy toothpaste,shampoo,etc. Who out here can get by without a cell phone? Rent alone in most cities is min. $500 and up, and that's in the "less desirable" locations. (See ghetto:shocked

"Here is the crux of the whole matter. A new house cost 1050% more in 2006 than in 1970. That means a new house in 2006 was 10 ｽ times more expensive than one in 1970. By comparison, the median household income increased 452% between 1970 and 2006. The 600% difference between income and housing expense is why there is a crisis of monumental proportions plaguing this country." (Quoted from the blog below)

If ya'll get a free minute, check out this guy's blog on housing/cost of living. Pretty interestin' stuff. Based on some comparative research I've done, most all his figures are pretty close.

The Cost of Housing: 1050% Higher than 1970 and Climbing Mercyman53′s Weblog

 

[brain55]

It once was that way here too. Before the presidential mandated extensions of UE benefits, the states collected insurance premiums and paid out 13-26 weeks of benefits and considered an additional period on a case by case basis. As long as you showed a good faith effort to get a job and had a reasonable outlook on what job you would take, it was usually approved for one additional period. Bad attitude, poor skills and unreasonable expectations, etc and you only got the one benefit period.

The Federal govt mandates took the ability to decline benefits away from the states and forced them to keep paying long after the insurance ran out.

Well put.

For those crying about a livable wage. Do you think the guy flipping burgers at McDonald's or taking your money at 7-11 should make $20/hr? These jobs pay minimum wage because they require little to no skill. These positions are not meant to be careers, they are meant for HS and college kids, as stepping stones. How much do you think a Big Mac or Slurpee would cost if these jobs warranted a "livable" wage? I also wonder how many have actually had to hire and fire people. I have hired and fired many mechanics over the last several years, for what you would consider skilled positions. The employer was not paying minimum wage for these jobs, he was paying what the skill or experience level would dictate. Many of these people did not know how to show up for work. Then if I could get guys to show up, they couldn't pass a drug test. Several were far less skilled than their resume indicated. It got to where every time I walked into HR they asked if I was hiring or firing somebody. It took well over 2 years for me to build a competent team.

My first job out of trade school paid $4/hr, minimum wage was $3.35/hr, with 5 years experience I made $7/hr nursing a drug addiction. By the time I had 15 years experience I was making $22.50/hr and my last job with almost 25 years experience I was making nearly $40/hr. My point is, I didn't make a livable wage until I had earned it. I busted my *** to make it to where I am today. Why I should I subsidize somebody who would rather collect unemployment than work. Like was stated, our contributions and employer contributions have long since run out. States are borrowing money to pay mandated benefits, which means the taxpayer is footing the bill. Government needs to stop spending our money for things other than essentials. I do not consider unemployment as essential. I don't expect anything more out of people than I expect of myself.

Brian

 

[ultrarunner]

When I was in Fl. a couple of years ago, had a friend who was on unemployment and food stamps. If I recall correctly, he got around $240.00 a week UE and $210 a month FS. That's $1,170.00 income a month without having to do anything 'cept walk to the mailbox!!!:confused2: His rent was around 500 or so, utilities included.

I offered him a job as a laborer with the framing co. I was working with at the time, starting at $10.00 an hr. He said thanks, but no thanks. After taxes, fuel and food, he wouldn't be making as much as he was, sitting at home in the a/c, sleeping in, drinking beer and eating ribeyes for breakfast!!!:laughing:

I know that nowadays people don't have the same work ethic many did years ago. Many don't feel any shame in milking the system for everything they can. Why work menial labor for menial wage when you can live the "subsidized" life?

Sad fact is, it's hard to make it most places with even a "decent" wage. Min. wage is what? $7.25 an hr? Are you kidding me ?? Who out here can survive on that alone? Rent, basic utilities, fuel/insurance (hope your car's paid for!) will eat that up QUICK! Then you gotta eat, and buy toothpaste,shampoo,etc. Who out here can get by without a cell phone? Rent alone in most cities is min. $500 and up, and that's in the "less desirable" locations. (See ghetto:shocked

"Here is the crux of the whole matter. A new house cost 1050% more in 2006 than in 1970. That means a new house in 2006 was 10 ｽ times more expensive than one in 1970. By comparison, the median household income increased 452% between 1970 and 2006. The 600% difference between income and housing expense is why there is a crisis of monumental proportions plaguing this country." (Quoted from the blog below)

If ya'll get a free minute, check out this guy's blog on housing/cost of living. Pretty interestin' stuff. Based on some comparative research I've done, most all his figures are pretty close.

The Cost of Housing: 1050% Higher than 1970 and Climbing Mercyman53′s Weblog

Yes... but those 2006-07 Housing prices are down 80% in some neighborhoods in my city... homes that sold for 500k were picked up by investors paying cash for 100K...

By anyone's analysis... 2006-07 were anomaly years, bubble, or the bigger fool years... can't say how many times I heard people in the Biz say today's high price is tomorrow's bargain.

 

[PILOON]

What I'd like to see is extended benefits for those willing to go back to school, whether it's university or trades, and some help for people who want to start their own business. That would keep people from having to collect in the future.

?

That program does exist, as I was teaching some aviation trade courses a few years back.
However even that was generally a fiasco as about 50% of my students merely attended to get the extended UI benefits.
Made teaching very difficult.
My solution was to take roll call early as once completed the deadbeats would leave the room and allow the serious students space to learn.

 

[77transam]

Yes... but those 2006-07 Housing prices are down 80% in some neighborhoods in my city... homes that sold for 500k were picked up by investors paying cash for 100K...

By anyone's analysis... 2006-07 were anomaly years, bubble, or the bigger fool years... can't say how many times I heard people in the Biz say today's high price is tomorrow's bargain.

Wow, 80% drop is unreal! Picked up by "investors paying cash" is the key phrase here.

Prices on foreclosed homes here are definitely rock-bottom compared with original retail, but the problem is the banks aren't lending money anymore. Unless you've got a perfect credit score,have been at your current job 5+ years, have a low debt-to-income ratio, and 20% down...

New construction prices are down too, but by maybe 10-20%, not 80. I can't imagine any business that could survive very long taking an 80% loss.

What is a "livable" wage? How do you go about determining what it is? My father worked for 25 years, never missed a day, was always punctual, for a steel company that pulled the rug out from under it's employees, laid off 75% of it's work force and gutted their profit-sharing. He then had to try to support himself and an invalid wife while paying a 2nd mortgage taken to put my sister through college. What is a livable wage for him? I'll fight any man who says he hasn't earned it. Yet when he applied for similar positions at other companies, he faced a pay cut of 50 to 75% of what he was earning.

NC Employment Security Commission has postings for CNC machinists/ $11.00 an hr, Welders $12.00 an hr. Carpenters $10.00 an hr. Are those fair wages for skilled workers?

The truth of the situation is we do not pay our fair share for goods and services in this country. Gas prices here are far below the rest of the world. Any farmer will tell you that there's no guaranteed profit in agricultural farming, and if America paid comparable prices for fuel that others pay, a huge portion of farmers and related industries (trucking,shipping,packing,refrigeration,grain-supported industries) would fold relatively overnight. Then you would see $20 cheeseburgers in McDonalds. You would see $5 to $8 a gallon fuel prices and then anything supplied by fuel-driven industry would see exponential price increases due to cost increases being passed to the consumer. $1000 a month power bill, $10 pepsi and $10 loaf of bread. What would be a livable wage then?

Just don't know how lucky we are.

 

[Reverend Blair]

That program does exist, as I was teaching some aviation trade courses a few years back.
However even that was generally a fiasco as about 50% of my students merely attended to get the extended UI benefits.
Made teaching very difficult.
My solution was to take roll call early as once completed the deadbeats would leave the room and allow the serious students space to learn.

It exists for certain industries in certain regions, Piloon. It doesn't exist as a general program. As you've noticed, the parts that do exist are also not performance-based. That's all about buying votes and not at all about getting people back to work.

 

[LD1]

NC Employment Security Commission has postings for CNC machinists/ $11.00 an hr, Welders $12.00 an hr. Carpenters $10.00 an hr. Are those fair wages for skilled workers?

I faced the same thing here back in 08 when I was laid off. I have a vast array of skills and I am not afraid to work and get dirty. I have carpentry skills, I can pass a welding test on all forms, I have mechanical experience, machining experience (no CNC though).

It almost made me laugh every time I would read an ad for one of these skilled trades as you mentioned. $11/hr for a welder??? get real. What "Quality" welder is going to go to work for that?? And the carpenters, concrete workers, etc all of which I have experience with, around $10 per hour???

I don't know if it is a regional thing or not, but part of the problem around here is all the TEMP services. Addeco, acloche, ameritemps, spherion, belcan, etc.etc. For starters, their ads are basic. Like "columbus based company looking for welders...$11/hr". And they are not allowed to tell you the name of the company until they have hired you. I don't know about you guys, but the company I work for is hugly important. Last thing I want to do is wast a bunch of time and trips taking drug tests, screening tests, interviews, just to find out it is a place I DON'T want to work. And a LOT of these companies NEVER hire fill time. It is cheaper labor for them just to cycle throught temps ever 5-6months or so. I didn't want to be at a place like that.

And another problem I had when looking for a job was the starting rate a lot of these places paid. Like interviewing for a $20+ per hour job, but wait, you only make $9.25 for the first 6 months. Well, job sounded great, benefits were great, but fact is, I cant pay my bills for the next 6months only making $9.25 per hour. It would be nice if there was some law where a starting rate for a new hire cannot be more than 25% less than the normal rate.

Sorry for being long winded, and not really making excuses, but these are some of the real things that people are faced with when on unemployment. I know there are a LOT of loosers milking the system, But the las few years have been some MAJOR layoffs at bigger companies. And as with most union shops (as in my case), it is the younger new people that get laid off. Most of us this was our first "real" career job with good benefits and all. In the 4 years that most of us were there, we settled down, got married, bought a house, baby on the way, and then show up to work one day and BAM, laid off. They continued to pay us for 2 months for a severance package, plus vacation time we had, and then we could start unemployment. Everything in my gut/pride was telling me to get a job ASAP as I did not want handouts. But if I had accepted a job @ $10 an hour with no benefits, I'd still probabally be paying hospital bills, I would have lost the house, tractor, vehichles, etc. UE was willing to pay me the equivellent of 14-15 per hour and THAT made the difference between loosing the house and keeping the house. Fortunatally the right job came along. But if it hadn't??? I know there are a lot of others in the situation I was in. But I admit, there is also a lot of worthless people milking the gumment check as well. But not everyone on UE is like that.

 

[slowzuki]

To the folks saying the luxury of getting 1000$ a month to stay at home on your butt, I don't understand? Unless your house is paid for, and you live in a very rural area, 12,000$ a year won't go far.

A cheap apartment here is 700$/month, 50$/month lights, 200$/month min for food, leaves 50$ to wash, cab fare etc. You can't get sick because you can't afford it. You can't afford cable or beer...

 

[Reverend Blair]

I faced the same thing here back in 08 when I was laid off. I have a vast array of skills and I am not afraid to work and get dirty. I have carpentry skills, I can pass a welding test on all forms, I have mechanical experience, machining experience (no CNC though).

It almost made me laugh every time I would read an ad for one of these skilled trades as you mentioned. $11/hr for a welder??? get real. What "Quality" welder is going to go to work for that?? And the carpenters, concrete workers, etc all of which I have experience with, around $10 per hour???

Yeah, I've seen way too much of that. I'm self-employed so I bid on jobs. A bid typically includes providing all of the tools, hauling materials, etc.. I always break my bids down into materials and time, so people know exactly what they are getting. It also gives them the opportunity to source the materials if they think they can get them cheaper (they can't, but it saves me hauling materials or arranging delivery).

I've had two people, both men in fancy suits; one living in a very expensive house and one wanting to beautify his company grounds; tell me that they've seen ads for labourers @ 10.00/hr and don't understand why I charge so much. I've had others say they can do the work themselves.

Okay, first of all my prices are competitive with others in the business.

Second of all, I'm the one who shows up and does the work. I'll hire sub-contractors for electrical and plumbing, or if there's a lot of concrete. I sometimes hire casual labour and think next season I'll get a student for the summer, but if you hire me I'm on-site doing the work. You get all of my experience and it's my butt on the line if things go wrong, not some low-wage seasonal worker's.

Third of all, I have the tools. They aren't free, and they aren't the cheap home-owners version. The post hole auger, tractor, and generator require gasoline. The truck and trailer need maintenance. The nailers need maintenance and the right nails. The saws need blades. It just goes on and on.

Then there's the insurance. I have my own life and injury, but I have to pay comp on anybody who works for me. I have a policy that covers any damage done to property.

Finally, there is paying anybody who works for me. I pay $15.00 an hour for labour. They have to have their own safety shoes and hand tools (usually a hammer and tool belt), and some way to get to work. By paying a premium, I get better workers even when hiring casual labour. I can usually get guys I've worked with before for that rate. The job goes quicker, there's fewer problems, and I save money in the end.

If these guys want $10.00 labour, let them go to a temp agency and hire it. Then they can supply all of the tools, figure out the design, and learn the codes.

The guy who wanted his company grounds beautified now has a wobbly, crooked fence, two unstable picnic tables, and some terracing out front that I wouldn't walk too close to because it looks like it could come down at any moment. My guess is that he did it himself or got his under-paid production line employees to do it.

We really do undervalue labour. The results show in the end.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

When I needed money in the past I did just about any honest work I could find because there was no form of welfare for me. I pay my UI premiums and in a few cases have had to lay people off and was glad it was there for them. In all cases these were employable people who did not ride out their UI to the end.

My brother's Union had an option to take a pay cut (making $25) or close the local General Tire factory. They voted to close it and learned many of the other factories were only pay high school grads $10-$12 per hour and fewer benefits.

If one is truly worth $25 per hour and take a $10 per hour job doing the same thing they will not stay at $10. Many have an eye out for the under employed because they are looking for quality people.

Character flaws that hold back an employee really upset management teams looking for talent.