Trouble in 4 or more

[tractorshawn]

Thanks in advance, My luck has not been very well this summer, I thought things went wrong in 3's. I had to Rebuild the mower deck, rebuild electric pto clutch, rebuilt starter, now it wont start at all , doesnt even seem to try to start. Just a lot of black smoke out the exhaust pipe. This is getting frustrating. Blead the injector pump, blead the injectors, buy crackin them loose till fuel started to come out. Still lots of black smoke not even a bark or a rattle. am i missing something, battery is fully charged, cranks very well with new starter, and i was using tractor in full service all winter and up till last week when all this trouble started. It is a 1985 massey ferguson 3 cyl deisle been a good tractor just seems every thing is wrong with it starting last week. What should i look for im stumped. Thanks again

 

[bjr]

Black smoke? just shootin' from the hip, here but check the air cleaner, like somethin' crawled in there and chocking off the air. I would think if your getting fuel and that's usually grey white smoke while cranking. Air, Fuel, Compression are the three things to make a diesel run. bjr

 

[Sandlot]

I am new to diesel engines myself, but that sounds like a glow plug problem. While installing the starter, any chance you may have disconnected a wire to your glow plugs?

 

[tractorshawn]

The air cleaner is clean, actually took it right out to see if that was the problem.No go still black smoke,Decided to take off injector pump and clean it.Read somewhere if it is gummed up bad it will make hard starts.The only problem is I cant get it to come out. There is a slide rod that will not move out of the way far enought to lift the pump out. Not unless Im going about it all wrong. Who knows. Anyone got a lite? One other thing that came to mind is low compression,Tractor has 1900 hours and I have abused the snot out of it.Low compression would make it not start as you said three things to make a disel run compression, air fuel. Ive got air and fuel.Maybe a lack of compression.Wasnt someone getting me a match?

 

[AMP762]

Old Injun trick,steal wifes hair dryer,blow hot air into intake for a couple min. and try to crank it.


Don't worry nothings going to be alrite

 

[tractorshawn]

I am too assume that the hair dryer will clear out any fuel that has fludded the engine. Can you flood a diesel engine? I have taken the injector pump apart and cleaned it out. It was gummed up pretty bad. The pistons and the sliders were not even moving in and out as I assume that they should.Took me almost 2 hours to dismantle and clean and reassemble. Im not sure takin it apart was the right thing to do.But as long as I got it together the same way I took it apart I think it will help a lot. I also took the injectors apart and cleaned them to.They also were very dirty and didnt move freely in and out. Im not sure of the amount of movement that they are supposed to have. They were so badly dirtied you could not even see the end of the injector. They are nice and clean and you can see the little tip that protrudeds through the end by eye. Very nice. I am going to reassemble the rest of the tractor that I had to take appart to axcess all of this stuff and I will let you know how I have made out.I hope the heck it starts. My grass is so long I lost my 4 year old while he was playing soccer in the back yard.

 

[Dirthog]

You will need to have the injection pump and injectors rebuilt and recalibrated now as they have to set by pressure on a stand more especialy the pump the injectors could be set by most any good engine shop

 

[tractorshawn]

so takin them appart was a misstake.I was wondering. There didnt seem to be any ajustment on the unit.It was strang I thought there would have been screws and springs and lots of ajustments like on a race carb. There was spacers, but they were labled with .036 and .038 and the other .032.They were all placed back in the same plunger holes they came.As for the injectors they also seemed strait foward. My buddy came over while I was doing this experiment. He has a ford 7.3L Diesel and he had said he took apart his injector pump and injectors cleaned them and reassemble with no troubles at all. He also said that all Diesel engines work the same. Diesels are the most simplest engines on the face of the planet. I hope that he is right. I need to cut grass.If it doesnt work Im gonna take it to a shop and just get it done.

 

[cp1969]

Not only do you need to have the injection pump and injectors reassembled and calibrated by a shop that specializes in that, you will need to set the timing when you reinstall the pump on the engine. Which, on diesel engines, is not the simplest thing in the world to do. Injection timing errors, even small ones, can make a huge difference in the way the engine starts and runs.

 

[sandman2234]

I cringed when I read the part that you disasembled the injector pump.
David from jax

 

[john_bud]

Well, did you put it back and try to start it?

Don't crank it too long, there is a chance you can hydrolock the engine and do serious damage.

Next time, a heavy dose of fuel cleaner is a better first step.

jb

 

[RoyJackson]

I think your tractor jumped timing...strictly a guess though.
Time to take it to a mechanic, do you think?

 

[tractorshawn]

yes I have already contacted a service shop. I am bringing it to them this afternoon. I told them what I have done to it myself. He said that its not a big deal. Its prob just out of time, like you said also. As goes for the injection pump, he also said thats not a big deal either. Its a big secret when we talk injection pumps, I think that he said that your lead to belive that they are hard to work on but in reality there very simple, but are very touchy and need to be clean clean clean when reassembling. Any way its fun to take things apart, then we know how they work.Just remeber when you dissasemble then reassemble and there are parts left over you have done something wrong, and luckly i had no parts left over.Except for this spring with a screw end on it??? What was it for. I dont know,makes a good key chain though.Just kidding.Im sure if I pay enought money I can have anything fixed.So hopefully will have it back by the weekend.Will post results latter. Thanks again guys.

 

[Harvey7]

I learned a long time ago that if I won't know what I'm doing, then to leave it alone.

 

[RoyJackson]

"Just remeber when you dissasemble then reassemble and there are parts left over you have done something wrong, and luckly i had no parts left over."

Biggest thing I've ever had to watch for was to ensure any shims that came out went back exactly as removed. Timing the pump (to the engine) requires some special tools.
The other thing is testing the injectors. You can pretty much determine if they're OK by the spray pattern. Not much you can do with a clogged injector.
(BTW, this wasn't on a diesel injection pump...this was on an early 70's Porsche 911 with mechanical injection. Old Mecedes Benz diesels weren't as finicky as the Porsche injection...but they didn't put out the power either.)

I reckon you'll want to determine why it jumped timing. I'm pretty sure the timing gear is chain driven (could be gears though) and the chain might be stretched or a sprocket worn.Just something to inspect and check. If the chain isn't too expensive (and your mechanic agrees), you might want to replace it.

Sometimes engines (especially old ones) just lose timing. And cranking can make a minor situation worse.

 

[RoyJackson]

I learned a long time ago that if I won't know what I'm doing, then to leave it alone.

I tried that excuse with my wife...didn't work...

 

[sandman2234]

Roy,
Pretty much the same thing on this end. Since I get into a lot of different stuff, the wife pretty much knows I can figure it out "if I want to!"
That stubborn trait has gotten me in more hot water with her than I can ever outlive.
David from jax

 

[3RRL]

If it is not your injection pump, have you checked the compression yet? If you have low compression your rings may be shot and the black smoke could be from that?