Trespasser.....what would you do?

[Richard]

A bit of a reply and a bit of an update and some ramble.

I have the two stands in my possession. I'm not saying it's right or wrong....I'm just being honest. I have posted a Craigslist for them, this is a direct copy/paste.

"I recently walked our property. Found a hunting stand..... and that stand is now in my possession. If it is yours, let me know and you can have it back. I'm not a thief......(nor a trespasser, unlike yourself).

You will have to meet me in a public place and we will discuss that you do not and never did have any permission to hunt nor trespass, much less set up stands on our property to treat it as your private hunting preserve.

You will have to prove to me it's yours by telling me exactly where I found it. If I don't hear from you I'll either sell it at a nice price to someone or I'll take it to the recycling center. Too bad too as it looks virtually brand new."

I don't really expect them to find this and respond....but I'll know I tried.

Meanwhile, I've drawn a very crude map of the land.

The land is bordered with the dark green line. On the bottom is a 4-lane highway (the black line would be one "lane". The top has another road (black line) and lake on that side. On the left side are a dozen houses (this land on the left, now developed, USED to be part of this family tract of land prior to father in law selling it off for development)

On the lower two corners of the land are two black squares. These are small right of ways (?) that when the highway was built (used to be 2-lane hwy, now expanded to 4-lane) the county (state?) told my (deceased) father in law. The two "right of way's" are his legal access points "attached to a public road" to give him access as he pleased.

So as a practical matter the entire place is "wild" though as mentioned it has been timbered so it's newer growth. Talking to the wife, turns out it was about 20 years ago that it was timbered (time flies!)

So these two black squares are the ONLY places where one can park.

When we were there the other day, I noticed a glistening "diamond" in the road. Stopping to look, it turned out to be a roofing nail. I then saw "glittering diamonds" ALL over the road. (this is a pretty steep slope, not that it matters)

We ended up walking all over this paved square....and collected about three HEAPING handfulls of roofing nails strewn all over the place. It is NOT like they fell out of a truck. It is much more like someone tossed them as they covered about the first 50% of the area and were strewn from side to side pretty evenly.

I'm sure there are more there but I'm going to go back with my floor magnet on wheels. Much more efficient than stooping over to get them.

I spoke with my Wildlife Resources person. She let me know that they have a memo there that purple paint will work for markings, AS WILL bright orange/yellow paint. So it doesn't have to be exclusively purple. (I already have a can of bright orange marking paint so won't have to find purple)

Rambling on further.... I actually intend to get a couple cans of purple paint AND a couple cans of this bright orange paint and I'll paint BOTH colors on a tree. This way someone can't play dumb...."OH, I didn't know that orange paint meant no go, I thought it was only purple".... so I'll put both there so they can easily be seen. I'll also double up the density of marks. If it says every 100', then I'll do it every 20/30 feet as I walk the line....every mark will be within eyesight of the next.

 

[Richard]

For clarification, the area between the two black paved squares is NOT easily accessed. It is not only on a steep slope (rollover steep) but because of the slope, there is a guard rail between the two locations. So it's one or the other but nothing between. The "back side" of the property has no shoulder so if one parks back there, they are first, parking in front of a couple houses AND would have to be at least 30% ON the small road. Something that people around here do but I'd expect the locals back there to call that in as a road hazard type thing as it could preclude an emergency vehicle to pass by. So as a practical matter, there's no access nor parking on the back side......too narrow of a road and no shoulders.

 

[oosik]

I wonder about the "Purple paint" law. Is that to satisfy the morally deficient class or the PC class. Both are about the same.

 

[deezler]

Wait a second. This family property is only 15 minutes away from yours, and in 30 years, this is your first time ever going there, whatsoever? And you get irate to find people simply hunting deer on it? How often does the rest of the family check on the parcel? I am guessing not much, since they didn't find the old weathered stand previously.

Forgive me if I missed it but I still haven't seen clarification from OP that you have the land well posted and secured.

People want to hunt. If there is a giant empty parcel of woods sitting between a bunch of houses, you can bet someone is going to set up and hunt on it. They've probably been doing it for years now and it's never bothered anyone, until you.

You had the right to remove and confiscate the deer stands. But destroying them is a harsh and borderline evil thing to do. You have not been harmed here. Someone pushed the limits and broke the unspoken rule not to tresspass. But you tell them not to do it, and it will probably stop. Don't go overboard here.

 

[plowhog]

I have posted a Craigslist for them .... Found a hunting stand..... If it is yours, let me know and you can have it back.

I wrote this earlier:

"If you were contacted by the owner you might consider agreeing to return them in exchange for a signed agreement that they will not return to your property."

But I presumed any contact might be from them looking you up as the land owner. I didn't consider you soliciting to find them through advertising ....

Couple of questions:

- Based on what you found, you know they own guns. Are you sure you want to initiate a meeting?

- If you meet, are you going to be armed, with backup?

- Are you really willing to move from a public place to where the stands were so they can show you? In other words, go to a remote area with a stranger that you know owns guns?

- Suppose you meet, the party wants to claim the property but not reveal where it was earlier put up. Some story like Uncle Bill said to come retrieve them but he's off hunting in Montana now and can't show where they were. Now what do you do?

And many other questions. Which all boil down to my belief that soliciting to find them is chasing possible trouble that you don't want or need.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

A bit of a reply and a bit of an update and some ramble.

I have the two stands in my possession. I'm not saying it's right or wrong....I'm just being honest. I have posted a Craigslist for them, this is a direct copy/paste.

"I recently walked our property. Found a hunting stand..... and that stand is now in my possession. If it is yours, let me know and you can have it back. I'm not a thief......(nor a trespasser, unlike yourself).

You will have to meet me in a public place and we will discuss that you do not and never did have any permission to hunt nor trespass, much less set up stands on our property to treat it as your private hunting preserve.

You will have to prove to me it's yours by telling me exactly where I found it. If I don't hear from you I'll either sell it at a nice price to someone or I'll take it to the recycling center. Too bad too as it looks virtually brand new."

I don't really expect them to find this and respond....but I'll know I tried.

Meanwhile, I've drawn a very crude map of the land.

The land is bordered with the dark green line. On the bottom is a 4-lane highway (the black line would be one "lane". The top has another road (black line) and lake on that side. On the left side are a dozen houses (this land on the left, now developed, USED to be part of this family tract of land prior to father in law selling it off for development)

On the lower two corners of the land are two black squares. These are small right of ways (?) that when the highway was built (used to be 2-lane hwy, now expanded to 4-lane) the county (state?) told my (deceased) father in law. The two "right of way's" are his legal access points "attached to a public road" to give him access as he pleased.

So as a practical matter the entire place is "wild" though as mentioned it has been timbered so it's newer growth. Talking to the wife, turns out it was about 20 years ago that it was timbered (time flies!)

So these two black squares are the ONLY places where one can park.

When we were there the other day, I noticed a glistening "diamond" in the road. Stopping to look, it turned out to be a roofing nail. I then saw "glittering diamonds" ALL over the road. (this is a pretty steep slope, not that it matters)

We ended up walking all over this paved square....and collected about three HEAPING handfulls of roofing nails strewn all over the place. It is NOT like they fell out of a truck. It is much more like someone tossed them as they covered about the first 50% of the area and were strewn from side to side pretty evenly.

I'm sure there are more there but I'm going to go back with my floor magnet on wheels. Much more efficient than stooping over to get them.

I spoke with my Wildlife Resources person. She let me know that they have a memo there that purple paint will work for markings, AS WILL bright orange/yellow paint. So it doesn't have to be exclusively purple. (I already have a can of bright orange marking paint so won't have to find purple)

Rambling on further.... I actually intend to get a couple cans of purple paint AND a couple cans of this bright orange paint and I'll paint BOTH colors on a tree. This way someone can't play dumb...."OH, I didn't know that orange paint meant no go, I thought it was only purple".... so I'll put both there so they can easily be seen. I'll also double up the density of marks. If it says every 100', then I'll do it every 20/30 feet as I walk the line....every mark will be within eyesight of the next.

The roofing nails are a concern. That is a malicious attempt to cause damage on your property, probably caused by the poachers.

 

[Richard]

Regarding meeting.... they can describe how they got to the location in the woods, I'm not going to meet them there (unless I might have Wildlife with me)

I'm not armed and would not be. I'd meet them at Walmart, Kroger....something like that with people around.

They would first have to again, describe how to get to the stand, the brand of the stand (one is pristine looking and has the brand stamped on the seat) It has noticeable washers holding the screws on that would be easy to describe.... then the other stand has some characteristics that could be described...

I've mentioned it....the land is not posted.

This was "MY" first time ever on this property. The property has a couple family members who own it. NONE have given permission for any hunting (we've asked) and ALL want the stuff down (we've asked). Though this land is 15 minutes from us, it is otherwise not easily accessable. In some parts you almost need a machete to work your way through. Then in other parts under the pine trees, it's easy to navigate.

You have to WANT to get to these locations to find (or put up) these stands, they are not casually near the entrance which is all the more I'd ever want to go.... it was the Wife and her sister (both the long time family members (among brothers) who wanted to go visit their old stomping ground)

I'm annoyed at the nails. I also view that as an act of aggression.

 

[TheMan419]

Wait a second. This family property is only 15 minutes away from yours, and in 30 years, this is your first time ever going there, whatsoever? And you get irate to find people simply hunting deer on it? How often does the rest of the family check on the parcel? I am guessing not much, since they didn't find the old weathered stand previously.

Forgive me if I missed it but I still haven't seen clarification from OP that you have the land well posted and secured.

People want to hunt. If there is a giant empty parcel of woods sitting between a bunch of houses, you can bet someone is going to set up and hunt on it. They've probably been doing it for years now and it's never bothered anyone, until you.

You had the right to remove and confiscate the deer stands. But destroying them is a harsh and borderline evil thing to do. You have not been harmed here. Someone pushed the limits and broke the unspoken rule not to tresspass. But you tell them not to do it, and it will probably stop. Don't go overboard here.

So if you can't easily identify the owner you have the right to go on some property you don't own and hunt/put up a tree stand? I don't think so. Also how long do you have to observe the property to figure it is abandonded before you can do that? What if he was there last week? How would you know?

 

[newbury]

In Tennessee you need to post a No Trespassing sign at major entrances to the property and then you can us the "Purple Paint" in all other areas.

2019 Tennessee Code :: Title 39 - Criminal Offenses :: Chapter 14 - Offenses Against Property :: Part 4 - Burglary and Related Offenses :: § 39-14-405. Criminal trespass.

Justia Free Databases of U.S. Laws, Codes & Statutes

law.justia.com

Did you even READ your link?

• (a) A person commits criminal trespass if the person enters or remains on property, or any portion of property, without the consent of the owner. Consent may be inferred in the case of property that is used for commercial activity available to the general public or in the case of other property when the owner has communicated the owner's intent that the property be open to the general public.

Purple paint and posting just makes it harder for the dumb @### to make an excuse.


Laws different all over - I'm from Vermont, the law there was like the "right to roam".
In Mississippi it's like Tennessee - you HAVE to have owners permission.

Richard - since they strew nails around I'd call it "game on".
Definitely notify the authorities. Also check around to see if you can get some armed guards on the place. Might ask the local game warden for a reputable game club and see if they will pay to lease the land. There's nothing like having a good game club to pay you to protect your property. They tend to be armed and have ATV's to chase off intruders.

 

[Jstpssng]

So if you can't easily identify the owner you have the right to go on some property you don't own and hunt/put up a tree stand? I don't think so. Also how long do you have to observe the property to figure it is abandonded before you can do that? What if he was there last week? How would you know?

There's a 50 acre tract next to mine. The closest to contact I've had with the landowner was when the power company wanted to bring power in for my neighbor and I, and they asked permission to put a guy wire on their land. The out of state landowner said "There's no reason to put power down that road."
I've owned this place for 20 years and lived here for 18, yet have NEVER seen anybody there. It's just a vacant piece of timberland which they apparently bought as an investment. What harm does it do if I take my shotgun and dog for a walk to see if we can scare up a bird?