Trencher or Backhoe for 1500'

[955Lincoln]

I'm extending power onto my property and I have a dilemma. The trench needs to be 1500' in length, 40" deep, and 8" minimum width for 3" conduit.

I own a full size Deere 410 backhoe with a 12" bucket but 1500' seems to be an aweful long trench for a backhoe. I bought the hoe to build up the property and would love to use it but I'm thinking a rented trencher would be the smart move. I haven't dug much on the property yet but I'm expecting that rocks could come into play.

What say you?

 

[Soundguy]

i put in about 1200' of ag-use water line using a rental walk behind trencher. trencher was rated for 36" but at full down on the cutting bar was really cutting 40" or so.. width struck me as being at LEAST 8" probably more like 10".. piled the till on one side.

I grabbed it at 7am and started trenching at 7:20am.. let my buddies teenage nephiew run it after we flagged the lines runs for him, in the meantime we were unloading pipe and running it parallel to his trench and gluing and sticking, then hand digging the riser and manifold and T' off areas. we finished all the trenches by 11am, and loaded it up and took it back and only had to pay the half day charge.. before we left we dropped the lines into the trench and added valves and all and then pressurized it with the pump and left a gauge on it. after lunch no pressure change.. so we covered it up and flushe dthe line then hooked up all the waterers... finished by ? 4pm or so with 3 of us covering trenches..

I can't imagine how long that would take with a backhoe...?? ( really.. not sure... )

soundguy

 

[MikeInEburg]

Even though I consider myself somewhat "thrifty", I'd rent a trencher. You'll get the job done in a fraction of the time. While you have the trench open, be sure to add in other utilities such as telephone and cable (note that these must be separated from AC power).
Mike

 

[alchemysa]

How much diesel are going to burn in 1500'?

 

[Soundguy]

true that. this trencher did everything on what had to be a couple gallons of gas too.. tank was small like a small lawn mower..

 

[955Lincoln]

Thanks for the replies!

I suppose I could rent a trencher for the weekend and finish up with the hoe if I'm not finished by then. According to some other posts on this subject, a larger ride-on would be the hot ticket givin the length and depth.

Alchemysa, I was considering fuel usage but I don't have a clue how long this will take with either machine. I would guess a lot more with the hoe.

 

[Sumpter]

I rented a ride on ditch witch for 1500' of irrigation. Had it dug in three hours. It would have taken alot more time and diesel with a back hoe. Of course I would have had to rent that also since I don't one.

 

[Mace Canute]

I'll cast my vote for getting a ride on trencher. Unless you are really proficient with the backhoe, you won't come close to the speed of a trencher. Trenchers have a couple of advantages over a hoe too, they don't disturb as much soil which translates into an easier time getting the surface back into the original condition and I like the way the "crumb" left at the bottom of the trench provides a built in cushion when you lay your conduit. Just as a side note, if there's rock in the backfill, some people like to "shade" the conduit by hand a few inches deep after it's laid to make sure all that's laying on it is pure dirt and not any of the rocks which have the potential to damage the conduit.

 

[kf4uda]

I will recommend the trencher as well. I have a Ford 555 TLB and dug a 800ft power ditch 4ft deep for our property. Before I was finished I was thinking a trencher might have been a better idea.

 

[Soundguy]

the ride on will cost about 3x to rent vs the walk behind... and really.. for the amount of work it is (isn't ).. save your money... as others said. this is a 'hours' job.. not a 'days' job. I had 1200' which was 1 main run and 2 side runs don in just a few hours and the pip in the trench and pressure testing all in less than 4 hours.

DO get the self propelled one though.. don't go for the non self propelled one.

soundguy

 

[oc3crwler]

Well Im not to far from you. If your in western Maryland, be prepared to use both. Dont forget this is limestone country. Anywhere from above ground to hundreds of feet below there are some biggies.

I tried to go 105 feet from my house to my shed for direct buiry wire(only planned to go down 40inches). After 2 days with a friends skid steer with a trencher attachment, my backhoe and the ripper on my OC6. I gave in the towl, and ended up running around 2 big rocks and going over 200 feet. Wish I had pictures of the boulders we pulled out of the ground. Wish I knew how big the ones we left in the ground where. When they install the septic and basement they had to blast a couple times.

Ive tried to dig out rocks to make it easier to mow. I can take the backhoe and grab what looks like the corner of a rock. And have the ground move up to 10 feet away, and stall out the backhoe.

Good luck and stay safe!

 

[dcyrilc]

Depending on the size and quantity of rock I might vote for the hoe. Years back we had a Ditch Witch R-30 and a couple of hoes at the job I worked. The R-30 could dig a lot of trench, but it didn't take more than a 12" rock to shut it down and stall it out.

 

[955Lincoln]

the ride on will cost about 3x to rent vs the walk behind... and really.. for the amount of work it is (isn't ).. save your money... as others said. this is a 'hours' job.. not a 'days' job. I had 1200' which was 1 main run and 2 side runs don in just a few hours and the pip in the trench and pressure testing all in less than 4 hours.

DO get the self propelled one though.. don't go for the non self propelled one.

soundguy

Well, I do hope it goes as you say but keep in mind that soil conditions vary greatly with location. I assume Florida is flat with few rocks but I'm in a rugged mountainous location with rocks all over the place. No telling what I will run into once I start digging. I would think a very large rock would bring a trencher and a hoe to its knees. After reading oc3crwler's post it may be a good idea to first experiment with my hoe to get an idea what I will run into and then try to come up with a plan.

 

[ray66v]

I own a backhoe, and still rent a trencher, when I want to put in long runs of pipe, or wire. Or, when I want to limit the damage to the lawn.

You can also back fill easier, with the nice powdered dirt that comes from it.

If you flood the trench with water, as you back fill, there is almost no sign of digging when your done, (great for covert operations).

 

[Haoleguy]

Well, I do hope it goes as you say but keep in mind that soil conditions vary greatly with location. I assume Florida is flat with few rocks but I'm in a rugged mountainous location with rocks all over the place. No telling what I will run into once I start digging. I would think a very large rock would bring a trencher and a hoe to its knees. After reading oc3crwler's post it may be a good idea to first experiment with my hoe to get an idea what I will run into and then try to come up with a plan.

I think that is the prudent plan. My experience with my own glacial till was that the larger rocks are near or on the surface and tend to run in groups/veins. In my case bedrock is way down and not to worry about. Since I had multiple projects going on at the same time I used an excavator to make 3 trenches(5ft deep and 250 ft long each) in about 4hrs time with probably 1 hr dealing with larger rocks.

 

[jake98]

If it has to be inspected you ought to use your BH, I would think. They want to see the depth, sand, conduit, etc.

 

[955Lincoln]

Well Im not to far from you. If your in western Maryland, be prepared to use both. Dont forget this is limestone country. Anywhere from above ground to hundreds of feet below there are some biggies.

I tried to go 105 feet from my house to my shed for direct buiry wire(only planned to go down 40inches). After 2 days with a friends skid steer with a trencher attachment, my backhoe and the ripper on my OC6. I gave in the towl, and ended up running around 2 big rocks and going over 200 feet. Wish I had pictures of the boulders we pulled out of the ground. Wish I knew how big the ones we left in the ground where. When they install the septic and basement they had to blast a couple times.

Ive tried to dig out rocks to make it easier to mow. I can take the backhoe and grab what looks like the corner of a rock. And have the ground move up to 10 feet away, and stall out the backhoe.

Good luck and stay safe!

Good points! The power company specifically told me they will give me some latitude on trench depth if I encounter rocks. I need to see what is down there and check on the depth they will allow. It's 12,000 volts and I wouldn't want to go too shallow.

I'm glad you mentioned a ripper on your OC6 and I would like to ask for some advice. I have a Cat 955L track loader which is a medium large machine weighing 36,000 pounds. I don't have a ripper on it but wish I had a single ripper in the center. If I encounter an extreme rock situation and I did have some sort of very strong ripper what would the effect be? This might be a hair brained idea but I was thinking about the possibility of running the Cat along the trench path to break up the ground and then the hoe or trencher would have a very easy job working the trench. Do you think it would disturb too much ground and make the trench too wide? I'm a first time equipment operator and need to ask these silly questions.

 

[955Lincoln]

I own a backhoe, and still rent a trencher, when I want to put in long runs of pipe, or wire. Or, when I want to limit the damage to the lawn.

You can also back fill easier, with the nice powdered dirt that comes from it.

If you flood the trench with water, as you back fill, there is almost no sign of digging when your done, (great for covert operations).

Thanks for the backfill and water tips!!

 

[955Lincoln]

If it has to be inspected you ought to use your BH, I would think. They want to see the depth, sand, conduit, etc.

That is what I would have thought too but they said I could back fill as I went along. They did include a good story about depth cheaters however. Sometimes when they pull the wire they have seen the conduit pull out of the ground. They simply pack up and leave. Mo money, mo money, mo money, It's already costing me a small fortune.

 

[spo307]

full size backhoe with 12" bucket, if its going to be inspected, trencher is not going to remove boulders out of the hole. I dug a french drain 2' down ( being on the border of PA your soil is prob like mine rocks) I used an 18" bucket lots of rocks, some spots the hole was wider due to bolder removal, bh with also do the clean up and back fill, and rolling over the back filled trench for compaction, jmo, Dennis