Tree came down in the storms--opinions?

[joshuabardwell]

The picture tells the story.



Although I'm normally a DIY kind of guy, the top of the tree is hung up in another tree, which pretty much automatically makes it over my pay grade. Still, I'm curious how a professional would go about this? How could the tree be brought down without having it fall on the manger and/or the fence? A neighbor of mine has a logging truck with a boom-claw (not sure the official name). I wondered if an arborist had such equipment, could they just sort of pick up the tree near the top so it wouldn't fall, then buck off sections of the truck until it was free. Without heavy equipment, I'm not sure what one would do. Could one build blocking underneath the trunk to allow the top to be cut loose without the bottom falling?

My best idea was to cut it loose at the base, then work my way up the trunk in 2-3' sections, letting the remaining top section of the tree come to rest on the ground each time the bottom was cut free. The main danger there, I guess, would be that the top would come loose in the jiggling and wiggling and the whole thing would come down.

I've reached out to my homeowner's insurance, and with any luck, they'll just take care of it. That's what they're for, right?

 

[dmccarty]

Danged fence and structure is in the way.

I would take down the fence boards and move the wire. Then hook up a chain and see if I could pull the tree over and out of the other tree and get it on the ground. I have done this with a come along because I can take my time and see what is happening. This assumes the downed tree trunk is not really stuck in a fork on the other tree.

If the downed tree cannot be moved out of the other tree I would start carefully cutting off sections of the trunk. Eventually, the top will settle down and can be pulled out. I have done this once or twice as well. Just make sure that the downed tree does not spring back when cut from the stump.

However, there have been some really big oak trees that have been blown down into the forks of another tree. These trees were in the woods and I left them alone. They were just too big and hung up at a very high angle to mess with. I let Momma Nature bring them down the rest of the way.

Later,
Dan

 

[DT86]

I agree, I'd move the fence out if the way first. Can the manger be moved or is it anchored in the ground?

 

[joshuabardwell]

I agree, I'd move the fence out if the way first. Can the manger be moved or is it anchored in the ground?

Unfortunately, it's augered into the ground on posts. Taking off the fence slats will be pretty easy. Pulling and re-setting the posts would be marginally more of a PITA.

 

[aczlan]

I would pull the fence slats, then put some sideways tension on the "uphill" side to pull it away from the shed (assuming that it is right on top of it and that's not just a trick of the light), then I would cut the trunk off in 3-6' sections until it cleared the fence and I would pull the rest out of the other tree with a long chain.
A spotter in my field of vision to keep an eye on the rest of the tree would be required.

Aaron Z

 

[Egon]

Crossed trees chained together under the leaner and take it art in pieces.

 

[s219]

That's a bit sticky. If you didn't care about the shack or fence, you could make an undercut about halfway along the trunk that should slowly let the tree buckle and come down in the middle -- just keep nibbling at the cut until it gives. It helps to have a long bar so you can stand clear of the trunk in case it acts unpredictably. Once down, work your way outward. You *must* use an undercut in this situation to keep from pinching the bar and to let the tree ease down to the ground as you cut.

If you did care about the shack/fence, you could block up the fallen tree to keep it from crushing the shack and fence, then free the top from the other tree. Next prop up a ladder against the side of the tree and start cutting off chunks from the top down. I'd probably also block/prop the rootball if it was heavy, so that it doesn't swing back upright at some point and send your ladder for a ride (seen it happen many times, and always surprises folks and lets me say "told you so").

Normally it's safer to work top down since that gets the weight off where it is most beneficial for safety. Just tie off the ladder and be very careful. You need cojones to run a chainsaw on a ladder, and I only do it in rare circumstances when I am 100% confident in my understanding of the situation. I have a small top-handle climbing saw for just these scenarios. A regular chainsaw is not safe to operate from a ladder, though people do it all the time.

 

[forgeblast]

watch cutting it near the root ball it will snap up. I would take a pole saw and get as many branch off as i could, and if you are able start at the top and work down.

 

[joshuabardwell]

watch cutting it near the root ball it will snap up. I would take a pole saw and get as many branch off as i could, and if you are able start at the top and work down.

Can you tell me more about the physics that will cause it to snap up? I can't see how it's under any tension that will cause that, but I know that hung trees can behave in unexpected ways. If you're thinking its teeter-tottering on the manger, it's not. It's totally hung up at the top.

 

[whistlepig]

If the tree is loaded with its own weight it could "snap up" when cut. When they snap up the direction isn't always predictable. The term I have always heard from talking to loggers is "loaded trees". Trees pushed into a pile by a 'dozer or a skidder. These trees are loaded by pressure but don't appear so. When they are cut they snap up quickly. Faster than a person can react.

 

[joshuabardwell]

I guess what you're saying is if somehow it is under compression along its length, as soon as the base is cut free, it's going to spring out. My mental image of the forces at play is that it's basically a suspended beam, hanging from its ends. If that's the case, then when one end is cut free, it'll just fall down. But if, as it fell, it ended up under compression, it could give a nasty surprise.

Thanks.

 

[whistlepig]

Or sometimes the tree rolls at the same time it snaps. Can't get away from it. I guess I am a bit of a wimp sometimes when it comes to cutting trees like this. It can smash the shed or fence. Or it can smash me. I think I am worth a little more than a shed or a fence. Although my wife may disagree.

 

[Larro Darro]

However you do it is going to be hard work. If it was me, I would take down fence and manger, then undercut it in four foot sections starting near the base. Once you have it cut past the fence, pull it down with your bobcat.
Just looking at it, I don't think you have to worry with it springing up. That is more common with oaks or if it had other trees down with it. But always have a clear path of escape.

 

[joshuabardwell]

However you do it is going to be hard work. If it was me, I would take down fence and manger, then undercut it in four foot sections starting near the base. Once you have it cut past the fence, pull it down with your bobcat. Just looking at it, I don't think you have to worry with it springing up. That is more common with oaks or if it had other trees down with it. But always have a clear path of escape.

I think you're probably right. The manger is the real sticking point for me. I really don't want to have to rebuild it if I don't have to. It wasn't exactly hard to build, but it wasn't exactly fun either, and it took like 10 hours all told. But I guess I'm lucky that the tree didn't just smash it in the first place, so maybe I should just call it a loss.

Under-cutting it from the base was my first thought as well. That way, after each cut, it lays back down basically the way it was, with the base resting on the ground. This assumes that the top will continue to hold in the trees it's hung up in, but even then, you basically know which way the tree is going to move when it lets go, so it should be possible to have a clear escape route.

Best-case scenario is my insurance agent calls me back and says they'll just take care of it. But if it turns out to be a $250 deductible or whatever, I'm going to be looking hard at other options.

 

[bcp]

Remove the fence boards first. To save the manger, I would put something like a RR tie or log under the butt end so it won't drop. (see drawing added to your photo) Then cut the stump off, and drag the bottom end sideways until it cleared the manger. After that, cut it down by sections, or pull it off the supporting tree. (We don't know how it is hung up.)

Bruce

 

[joshuabardwell]

Remove the fence boards first. To save the manger, I would put something like a RR tie or log under the butt end so it won't drop. (see drawing added to your photo) Then cut the stump off, and drag the bottom end sideways until it cleared the manger. After that, cut it down by sections, or pull it off the supporting tree. (We don't know how it is hung up.)

That's a mighty clever idea, and I like it. I have some 6x6 cedar posts that are going to be for some fence gates, and I think they'll do nicely.

 

[joshuabardwell]

... ugh. Just checked my insurance documents and it looks like I've got a $1000 deductible.

 

[Egon]

A picker should work.:thumbsup:

 

[JimRB]

That picture says you have a dead tree you ignored. Last time I did that a tree smashed my fence. So I went and dropped the other few dead trees before they fell on the fence too. I gather from reading that dropping old dead trees is more dangerous that freshly dead trees because the wood can be rotten so hinges do not work well.

Remove three sections of fence boards, attach nylon pull straps to base of tree and try pulling away from manger. Of course the tree could roll anyway when you are sectioning it. I like nylon straps because I have a bunch of them and if they fail they hurt less than a chain flying towards me. A settled tree is less exciting that one hung up but t here can still be lots of drama. Nylon straps and maybe using a come along pulling from the base of another tree if you have traction problems. You might need to do a bit of limbing first if any limbs are going to get in the way of pulling. On the other hand that tree might weigh a few tons and a small come along might not have enough power without a few pulleys to multiply power.

Someone mentioned how root balls like to fly about. You read stories every so often about people who bring the children or pets around when they are working on downed trees. Kids love to play around root balls. Somebody cuts the tree a few feet above the root ball and the root ball flips back towards the upright position it was growing in. Kid or pet gets crushed. I see an oak tree 3 miles from my house where the root ball settled right back where it popped out after the 50 feet above it was released.

 

[aczlan]

I think you're probably right. The manger is the real sticking point for me. I really don't want to have to rebuild it if I don't have to. It wasn't exactly hard to build, but it wasn't exactly fun either, and it took like 10 hours all told. But I guess I'm lucky that the tree didn't just smash it in the first place, so maybe I should just call it a loss.

Under-cutting it from the base was my first thought as well. That way, after each cut, it lays back down basically the way it was, with the base resting on the ground. This assumes that the top will continue to hold in the trees it's hung up in, but even then, you basically know which way the tree is going to move when it lets go, so it should be possible to have a clear escape route.

Best-case scenario is my insurance agent calls me back and says they'll just take care of it. But if it turns out to be a $250 deductible or whatever, I'm going to be looking hard at other options.

With the first cut, you may need to overcut (ie: cut down from the top) if the stump is trying to spring back to how it was. The rest will probbaly be undercuts.

Aaron Z