Travelover
Elite Member
:laughing::laughing::laughing::thumbsup:
Trailers are dangerous
- Thread starter czechsonofagun
- Start date
- Views: 18789
:laughing::laughing::laughing::thumbsup:
buck12
Veteran Member
Best post in this thread.
Kaliburz
Gold Member
Yup... I was considering mentioning that if things go bad in this thread, it's libel to be locked by the powers that be..... seen it happen on some other forums I visit.
To the original statement - the title of this thread.
I disagree that trailers per se are dangerous.
It just takes more care and skill to drive safely with one, "safely" for all road users.
As a bicyclist I just "know" what is approaching me from behind.
Some good old analog computing goes on between an experienced cyclist's ears;
received sound, perceived speed and distance, sense of size and weight, likely width, etc., sense of driver holding back (or NOT) and preparing to pass, change in engine note according to thinning of the oncoming traffic.
We just "know" when a good driver is back there - and those who are less so.
We "know" when we will get proper clearance. We are rarely wrong about the good drivers.
When a bad driver gives us clearance, gee sometimes the whole vehicle is on the left side of the double yellow line.
DUDE !! I may be out of shape this year, but I'm not THAT wide (-:
or they just about brush your elbow )-:
I disagree that trailers per se are dangerous.
It just takes more care and skill to drive safely with one, "safely" for all road users.
As a bicyclist I just "know" what is approaching me from behind.
Some good old analog computing goes on between an experienced cyclist's ears;
received sound, perceived speed and distance, sense of size and weight, likely width, etc., sense of driver holding back (or NOT) and preparing to pass, change in engine note according to thinning of the oncoming traffic.
We just "know" when a good driver is back there - and those who are less so.
We "know" when we will get proper clearance. We are rarely wrong about the good drivers.
When a bad driver gives us clearance, gee sometimes the whole vehicle is on the left side of the double yellow line.
DUDE !! I may be out of shape this year, but I'm not THAT wide (-:
or they just about brush your elbow )-:
FlaDon
Platinum Member
Same reason a motorcycle needs it. To cover any damage the operator may cause due to their faulty operation of the bicycle. And to prevent the tax payers from having to foot the bills for medical care if it is the bike operators fault if they cause injury. To themselves or others. If a motor vehicle operator injures the bike rider, then the vehicle owner has to pay. Tractors are limited in their speeds compared to a bike.
NuBota
Gold Member
If the driver takes the far left, I would not take that as an affront or consider them a bad driver - I would consider the driver taking the most cautious position possible, respecting your safety. The driver has no clue as to your skill as a rider and there is no way all riders have the same level of awareness and skill as you mentioned. I give as much room as possible once I consider it safe to pass. Only takes a patch of gravel, a pothole, a squirrel, or simply distracted biker for their "course" to change. Same is true when passing farm equipment - big Ag rigs tend to bounce and swerve a little going down the road, especially when they try to "hug" the shoulder
I am all for sharing the road - the only time I get irritated with the cyclists is when there are packs of them stretched out for several hundred feet making it practically impossible to pass safely. If you can finally pass, a little further up the road, there is another pack. In my area it is 8-10 miles of curvy, hilly, rural roads to the nearest 2 lane road, so this can get very tedious. Not sure what a good solution is - I respect that they want to ride, but it does have a significant impact on traffic.
Brad_Blazer
Veteran Member
Good and bad drivers of all types.
My bicycle peeve was described earlier in the "size 12" story. Traffic is backed up as everyone gives room to a bike rider. At the next light the bike rider splits traffic to the front of the line and the process repeats. Same cars, same bike. Pretty soon 5 million dollars in capital is traveling at the pace of a bicycle. How many of the drivers are upset with the bike?
My bicycle peeve was described earlier in the "size 12" story. Traffic is backed up as everyone gives room to a bike rider. At the next light the bike rider splits traffic to the front of the line and the process repeats. Same cars, same bike. Pretty soon 5 million dollars in capital is traveling at the pace of a bicycle. How many of the drivers are upset with the bike?
That $5M of (rapidly rusting and depreciating) "capital" has brought itSELF to a standstill.
The occupants can be as upset as they decide they want to be, at least the guy on the bike is getting his 2 workouts a day - in the time he would otherwise be seething in traffic.
If 20% of 'em were on 2 wheels the gridlock wouldn't be an issue to deal with.
OP
czechsonofagun
Elite Member
That's how I pass a bicycle, it does not hurt me to turn the wheel and he is safe even if he goes down.
I take the "wide berth" as a sure sign that the driver a)doesn't know the width of their vehicle and b) can't tell a straight and steady cyclist from a wobbler.
Either way, a BAD driver in my book.
No, it does NOT "take a patch of gravel", that is a good example of where to NOT change course.
Same with pot holes, a competent rider will NOT swerve and wobble around them at the last split second - if things get tight they will most likely bunny hop over them.
Drivers who can't tell at a glance a steady rider from a "just got this at WallyWorld" case are incompetent, or at least inexperienced.
Kaliburz
Gold Member
Well, not to make too big of an issue, if bicyclists are to classified as motor vehicles, in theory, they say that if there are more then 5 vehicles behind you, you are suppose to pull over when safely possible and let them pass.
So if a driver gives you the entire lane they are bad drivers? Sorry but that is just silly:confused2:. I was taught to always pass everything by giving the entire lane. Including bicycles, law officers, tractors and everything else that can be passed.
But if that makes me a bad driver so be it.
OP
czechsonofagun
Elite Member
There are accidents that happen to bicycles, it is just plain statistics. If the biker flies over his handlebars, I don't want to be there with my right front wheel or a trailer. I guess that makes me bad driver.
Also one more thing - the space spares them exhaust fumes, for hard pedaling biker that means a lot.
FlaDon
Platinum Member
:thumbsup:
That's the way it is supposed to be done. But now days you see more and more drivers running into the stopped cops with their lights on.:confused2:
aczlan
Good Morning
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Personally, when I am riding, I prefer that drivers give my a wide berth. It gives me less of a wind effect as they pass, I have more room in case something happens to me and I go down or have to swerve.
As a car driver, I always try to give cyclists as much of a lane as possible when passing because then I have more room to move if a animal jumps out in front of me, if there is junk in the road, if I blow a tire or what have you. If the space is available, why not use it?
What is the downside of giving someone extra room (when safe) again? I must have missed it.
Aaron Z
RTII
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Lot of assumptions here as well as painting a whole group of people with the same brush. Can't say I agree with most of what you've said. I tend to think that those who've taken the safer route of erring on the side of caution seem to make more sense. There will always be bad drivers as well as bad riders. Sometimes it's easy to tell which are which and sometimes you might not find out until it's too late.
Probably not much more than the whole "issue" of thinking that one needs to ?
Which is probably why they hold back and get cranked up about being "delayed".
It is NOT the way car and truck drivers pass cyclists in countries other than the US.
I find it very hard to believe that folk do it that way because of how they were taught.
Lets see; what ELSE were they "taught" ?
Speed limits, stopping BEFORE the line and not ON the cross walk at lights,
Yield signs at interstate on ramps.
Yielding to pedestrians, not that they are always ON the crosswalk.
Alcohol (I only had a sip of beer), seat belts.
Precedence to driven animals (Cows & sheep are NOT something to honk your way through) and equestrians.
The whole friggin' drivers' ed' manual - totally disregarded by the masses every day.
So how come they forget just about everything else they were "taught" ?
(rhetorical, I know about selective retention).
==================================================
Cars may be faster, but (as evidenced by the story about lane splitting and catching up) they are no "quicker" than bicycles on urban commutes.
Say what ? Who is delaying who here ?
nah, i think his point was to try and reassure drivers that get freaked out thinking that they need to clear a cyclist by going over into the entire next lane, that it isn't always necessary, that half a lane or so is plenty of room for an experienced cyclist. Directed at whoever unspecified drivers that feel held back and afraid to pass. Awkward point from my POV, I always give and appreciate the most clearance possible.
Mace Canute
Elite Member
I've been driving over 4 decades and have had a Class 1 license (which translates to top of the line CDL for those of you who don't understand the Canadian system) with Air and Motorcycle endorsements for most of those years.
I really dislike bicycles on highways and I'm not fond of them on most city thoroughfares, mostly because so many of the riders don't ride according to the rules of the road. They are NOT pedestrians but so many think they should be treated as such...those ones also don't follow the rules that pedestrians are supposed to follow (no surprise there). They seem to only follow the rules when it's to their benefit to. When riding on a highway, their silhouette is small and the speed differential between a bicycle is great and very few riders I have seen take the effort to be as visible as they should be.
Years ago, late one night I had parked my car in front of my apartment building. The roadway curved and it was difficult seeing if anyone was coming up behind me, but I did all I could to make sure I could exit my car safely...be darned if I wanted to get ran over getting out of my car! I shoulder checked, checked the rear view mirror just as I cracked open the door, listened for vehicles coming and watched for headlights...when it appeared all clear, I swung the door open. I didn't even have it fully open when a bicycle rider whizzed past me! I swear I heard his sphincter slam shut!
I did hear his sharp intake of breath. He missed me by the reddest of CHs. He would have been severely injured if he had hit the edge of my car door (1970 Pontiac Parisienne 2+2) and according to the law, I would have been charged with causing the accident! I got a look at him as he continued on his way. Dark clothing , no lights anywheres, not even reflectors. I bet his heart rate instantly doubled when he realized my door was swinging opem!
I almost ran into one bicycle rider at a red light once. Two lanes each direction and I was in the left lane and bike rider was in the right lane. I wasn't going fast at all...I was coming to a stop and he did a circle turn into my lane when I was just feet from him. I darn near broadsided him. Fortunately I was going slow and was already breaking. He hadn't looked ( the look of surprise on his face when he saw me was evident) and was doing what I believe would best be called "stunting" if a cop was writing it up....rather than coming to a stop and putting a foot down, he kept moving and had to cut a tight circle to do so. There were cars ahead of him waiting for the light to change, but my lane was clear...if the light had turned green just at the wrong moment for him I would have been off the brakes and accelerating (at a reasonable rate) and I would have drove over the idiot or at best knocked him to the ground hard!
I've been ran into by one bicycle rider who was riding between the traffic lane and the parked cars and gaining on the traffic at a good clip...I signaled to turn right and because I was in rush hour traffic, I was watching ahead and to each side of me, but not behind me (why would I?)...traffic was going dead slow and I did a nice slow turn onto a side street and he slammed into my right quarter panel...dented it, damaged the paint and tore a strip of chrome off. He was knocked down when he bounced off me and I stopped immediately and got out. He tried to ride away and I had to grab his bike to prevent that and I wouldn't let him leave until he provided me with identification. I had to sue him in small claims court for the damages..he didn't think he should pay for the damage even though he was clearly at fault. (Of course I won in SCC.) He also wasn't paying any attention to signal lights which made him a dumb rider! If he had gotten up faster, he would have gotten away and I would have had to pay for the damages myself...a license plate would be helpful in such situations. If bicycles had plates. you could have report riders who caused accidents and sanctions could be taken against them exactly as if they had caused the accident while driving a motor vehicle.
I've also recently had a bike rider pass me when I was being passed by a semi. I knew he was behind me but he hammered on it and was besides me before I realized he was trying for a Darwin Award. 10 seconds and the semi would have cleared me...and the biker could have passed both of us safely. It would have been safer if he had used the paved shoulder to pass on my right, but he passed on my left and had all of about 4 feet to use. All it would have taken was either me or the semi to veer towards each other and his clearance would have been a negative value. I was certain I wasn't going to swerve into him, but the semi... he could have swerved to his left for any reason and when he came back to center of his lane, or overshot the center somewhat, the trailer could have whipped a bit and that might have been all she wrote.
I've also seen a lot of dumb things done with cars, light trucks, semis, and farm tractors, but I do think the worst offenders are bicycle riders.
I really dislike bicycles on highways and I'm not fond of them on most city thoroughfares, mostly because so many of the riders don't ride according to the rules of the road. They are NOT pedestrians but so many think they should be treated as such...those ones also don't follow the rules that pedestrians are supposed to follow (no surprise there). They seem to only follow the rules when it's to their benefit to. When riding on a highway, their silhouette is small and the speed differential between a bicycle is great and very few riders I have seen take the effort to be as visible as they should be.
Years ago, late one night I had parked my car in front of my apartment building. The roadway curved and it was difficult seeing if anyone was coming up behind me, but I did all I could to make sure I could exit my car safely...be darned if I wanted to get ran over getting out of my car! I shoulder checked, checked the rear view mirror just as I cracked open the door, listened for vehicles coming and watched for headlights...when it appeared all clear, I swung the door open. I didn't even have it fully open when a bicycle rider whizzed past me! I swear I heard his sphincter slam shut!
I did hear his sharp intake of breath. He missed me by the reddest of CHs. He would have been severely injured if he had hit the edge of my car door (1970 Pontiac Parisienne 2+2) and according to the law, I would have been charged with causing the accident! I got a look at him as he continued on his way. Dark clothing , no lights anywheres, not even reflectors. I bet his heart rate instantly doubled when he realized my door was swinging opem!I almost ran into one bicycle rider at a red light once. Two lanes each direction and I was in the left lane and bike rider was in the right lane. I wasn't going fast at all...I was coming to a stop and he did a circle turn into my lane when I was just feet from him. I darn near broadsided him. Fortunately I was going slow and was already breaking. He hadn't looked ( the look of surprise on his face when he saw me was evident) and was doing what I believe would best be called "stunting" if a cop was writing it up....rather than coming to a stop and putting a foot down, he kept moving and had to cut a tight circle to do so. There were cars ahead of him waiting for the light to change, but my lane was clear...if the light had turned green just at the wrong moment for him I would have been off the brakes and accelerating (at a reasonable rate) and I would have drove over the idiot or at best knocked him to the ground hard!
I've been ran into by one bicycle rider who was riding between the traffic lane and the parked cars and gaining on the traffic at a good clip...I signaled to turn right and because I was in rush hour traffic, I was watching ahead and to each side of me, but not behind me (why would I?)...traffic was going dead slow and I did a nice slow turn onto a side street and he slammed into my right quarter panel...dented it, damaged the paint and tore a strip of chrome off. He was knocked down when he bounced off me and I stopped immediately and got out. He tried to ride away and I had to grab his bike to prevent that and I wouldn't let him leave until he provided me with identification. I had to sue him in small claims court for the damages..he didn't think he should pay for the damage even though he was clearly at fault. (Of course I won in SCC.) He also wasn't paying any attention to signal lights which made him a dumb rider! If he had gotten up faster, he would have gotten away and I would have had to pay for the damages myself...a license plate would be helpful in such situations. If bicycles had plates. you could have report riders who caused accidents and sanctions could be taken against them exactly as if they had caused the accident while driving a motor vehicle.
I've also recently had a bike rider pass me when I was being passed by a semi. I knew he was behind me but he hammered on it and was besides me before I realized he was trying for a Darwin Award. 10 seconds and the semi would have cleared me...and the biker could have passed both of us safely. It would have been safer if he had used the paved shoulder to pass on my right, but he passed on my left and had all of about 4 feet to use. All it would have taken was either me or the semi to veer towards each other and his clearance would have been a negative value. I was certain I wasn't going to swerve into him, but the semi... he could have swerved to his left for any reason and when he came back to center of his lane, or overshot the center somewhat, the trailer could have whipped a bit and that might have been all she wrote.
I've also seen a lot of dumb things done with cars, light trucks, semis, and farm tractors, but I do think the worst offenders are bicycle riders.
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