Trailer Troubles / Decisions
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Joe1
Platinum Member
Your truck is probably overloaded towing that much weight. You may have either not enough weight on the tongue which will induce a sway, or trailer tire pressure was uneven, which will induce a sway as well, or you had enough tongue weight, but that put too much downward pressure on the hitch ball (particularly on short bed trucks) which lightened the front end of the truck. Your truck tires may also be underinflated or overloaded.
I would bet inadequate tongue weight on an overloaded truck with a hitch system that was also overloaded. You were lucky on your earlier towing experiences.
Your 1/2 ton might tow it, but if it's grossly overloaded, it will wear more quickly and if you have an emergency situation, you will not have the safety factor of a heavier truck and open yourself up to a lot of liability in the event of an accident.
Sounds like budget is an issue and a replacement truck might be out of the question. You can do a few things to your truck to help, such as over load springs in the rear, but the best thing if you wish to use this truck would be an equalizer hitch(probably in the $350.00 range) which helps distribute tongue weight to both truck axels and also back to the trailer axles. This, with an anti-sway device would make for a much safer and more stable rig, However, overloaded is overloaded, and if you exceed the towing capacity of the truck or the GCVWR (Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating) (truck and trailer plus load combined), a better hitch will help, but not solve it completely. Keep in mind that the GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating) for the truck includes passenges and other equipment you carry plus the weight on the hitch. I would bet you also carry a lot of tools, fuel, etc in the pickup when towing the trailer. The GVWR on a standard 1/2 ton is around 6,100# - 6,400#. Which leaves about 1,800# for people, equipment and trailer hitch weight. Put 1,000# on the hitch ball that far behind the rear axle and you may have a hard time stopping quickly on a curve if the road is wet without a jack knife situation. This could be worse yet if the trailer brakes are not properly adjusted or not working completely. Some dual axle trailers only have brakes on a single axle. If it's heavy enough for dual axles, it's heavy enough for brakes on each axle.
If you could borrow a 3/4 or 1 ton truck just to try it with the same trailer combination, I think you would find a significant difference.
Good luck and be safe.
Joe
I would bet inadequate tongue weight on an overloaded truck with a hitch system that was also overloaded. You were lucky on your earlier towing experiences.
Your 1/2 ton might tow it, but if it's grossly overloaded, it will wear more quickly and if you have an emergency situation, you will not have the safety factor of a heavier truck and open yourself up to a lot of liability in the event of an accident.
Sounds like budget is an issue and a replacement truck might be out of the question. You can do a few things to your truck to help, such as over load springs in the rear, but the best thing if you wish to use this truck would be an equalizer hitch(probably in the $350.00 range) which helps distribute tongue weight to both truck axels and also back to the trailer axles. This, with an anti-sway device would make for a much safer and more stable rig, However, overloaded is overloaded, and if you exceed the towing capacity of the truck or the GCVWR (Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating) (truck and trailer plus load combined), a better hitch will help, but not solve it completely. Keep in mind that the GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating) for the truck includes passenges and other equipment you carry plus the weight on the hitch. I would bet you also carry a lot of tools, fuel, etc in the pickup when towing the trailer. The GVWR on a standard 1/2 ton is around 6,100# - 6,400#. Which leaves about 1,800# for people, equipment and trailer hitch weight. Put 1,000# on the hitch ball that far behind the rear axle and you may have a hard time stopping quickly on a curve if the road is wet without a jack knife situation. This could be worse yet if the trailer brakes are not properly adjusted or not working completely. Some dual axle trailers only have brakes on a single axle. If it's heavy enough for dual axles, it's heavy enough for brakes on each axle.
If you could borrow a 3/4 or 1 ton truck just to try it with the same trailer combination, I think you would find a significant difference.
Good luck and be safe.
Joe
jdavis3099
New member
Haul A Round trailers in Southwest OK make custom trailers including dump trailers with removable sides in gooseneck or bumper pull. I am in the process of ordering my 2nd trailer from them and prefer the ability to spec out the compenents (D rings on dump floor, Tor-Flex axle etc.)
Also I think the weight of a loader is close to 1500 pounds when you include all components including sub frame and front bumper.
Also I think the weight of a loader is close to 1500 pounds when you include all components including sub frame and front bumper.
Highbeam
Super Member
GeneD14: That's the kind of trailer I loaded my dozer on. It was pretty much the first time I drove the dozer after restoring it at home and it felt like I was going to flip head over heels.
"The GVWR on a standard 1/2 ton is around 6,100# - 6,400#. Which leaves about 1,800# for people"
-In my case, my half ton weighs 5800 lbs with nothing in the bed, full fuel, and my wife and I in the cab. My 6200lb GVWR leaves only 400 lbs for cargo, tongue weight, or a combination of both. You may be surprised at how little "legal" capacity you have if you want to stay within every single rating.
"The GVWR on a standard 1/2 ton is around 6,100# - 6,400#. Which leaves about 1,800# for people"
-In my case, my half ton weighs 5800 lbs with nothing in the bed, full fuel, and my wife and I in the cab. My 6200lb GVWR leaves only 400 lbs for cargo, tongue weight, or a combination of both. You may be surprised at how little "legal" capacity you have if you want to stay within every single rating.
GeneD14
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Highbeam,
I loaded a small (11,000 lb) dozer up a steep trailer with steel ramps a few years ago and slide back down almost sideways. It scared the !@%*&!! out of me. I ended up laying down heavy pieces of rubber truck tire tread to help give me enough traction to climb up.
I loaded a small (11,000 lb) dozer up a steep trailer with steel ramps a few years ago and slide back down almost sideways. It scared the !@%*&!! out of me. I ended up laying down heavy pieces of rubber truck tire tread to help give me enough traction to climb up.
Highbeam
Super Member
My dozer is about that weight and the ramp was wood so I didn't slip but I had to add alot of fuel to get up that ramp. That sliding feeling is never pleasant.
Joe1
Platinum Member
Highbeam:
i was thinking of a basic 4 X 2 small block half ton that's about 4,400#. It's easy to get the weight up. A lot of people don't realize how heavy their vehicles actually are.
i was thinking of a basic 4 X 2 small block half ton that's about 4,400#. It's easy to get the weight up. A lot of people don't realize how heavy their vehicles actually are.
AntrimMan
Gold Member
Yooper,
I've studied this trailer notion to death. I remain trailerless because I don't move that often and it only cost $150 to get transported (approx 36 miles) each way, and thats a lot less than the trailer I don't need but want.
The H&H tilt is what I would buy, 20' minimum. I'm told that the equipment, or any portion thereof, may not overhang the deck without drawing attention from the 'how much does your load weigh' police. I would not use it to haul dirt. Get a 1 ton dump body or larger if you want to haul dirt or else have material delivered.
Your LA723 weights 1058# and the HD 72" bucket is 331#, if that is what you have. If there is a materials yard anywhere nearby just trailer over there and ask to use the scales. They all sell by the ton now so they must be able to state honest weight on the slips.
Regarding the tow vehicle...
The stop that will soil your trousers is the little old blue hair that pulls across into oncoming traffic and stops everyone dead in your lane, or the bouncing ball followed by a ... I don't even want to go there. You simply cannot plan enough for this type of action so the rig must be capable or someones relatives might end up living in your house. I believe it is safe to assume that when you stand on the binders a heavy load will steer the back wheels of a light tow vehicle and you will be unable to compensate adequately.
Your tractor is a nice machine, it is a substantial unit and when the attachments are added it puts you into a weight category that requires a bit more planning than lighter units. That 7000# borrowed trailer is maxed when the trailer and combined load is 7000# total and you saw how that went.
I strongly suggest you do it right or don't do it at all. A decent trailer salesperson will ask what you plan to tow and with what vehicle. Don't be conned into buying one from the lot 'cause that's what's available' or 'this is what your truck can tow'. If you feel it will be too short, order what you want if need be, it may cost a few extra shillings from you initially but your friends will be able to borrow it and not break the ramps, lights, etc. You will be delighted when it comes home unscathed (I'm hinting at some thing here so consider that also). You already have the tractor and likely will long after your current pickup, so match the tractor weights to the trailer and then that to a tow vehicle, this will show what you need vs what you have. Stay within limits, think of possible implement additions, and most of all play it safe.
That's my advice and I hope it's worth more than what you paid for it.
All the best,
Martin
I've studied this trailer notion to death. I remain trailerless because I don't move that often and it only cost $150 to get transported (approx 36 miles) each way, and thats a lot less than the trailer I don't need but want.
The H&H tilt is what I would buy, 20' minimum. I'm told that the equipment, or any portion thereof, may not overhang the deck without drawing attention from the 'how much does your load weigh' police. I would not use it to haul dirt. Get a 1 ton dump body or larger if you want to haul dirt or else have material delivered.
Your LA723 weights 1058# and the HD 72" bucket is 331#, if that is what you have. If there is a materials yard anywhere nearby just trailer over there and ask to use the scales. They all sell by the ton now so they must be able to state honest weight on the slips.
Regarding the tow vehicle...
The stop that will soil your trousers is the little old blue hair that pulls across into oncoming traffic and stops everyone dead in your lane, or the bouncing ball followed by a ... I don't even want to go there. You simply cannot plan enough for this type of action so the rig must be capable or someones relatives might end up living in your house. I believe it is safe to assume that when you stand on the binders a heavy load will steer the back wheels of a light tow vehicle and you will be unable to compensate adequately.
Your tractor is a nice machine, it is a substantial unit and when the attachments are added it puts you into a weight category that requires a bit more planning than lighter units. That 7000# borrowed trailer is maxed when the trailer and combined load is 7000# total and you saw how that went.
I strongly suggest you do it right or don't do it at all. A decent trailer salesperson will ask what you plan to tow and with what vehicle. Don't be conned into buying one from the lot 'cause that's what's available' or 'this is what your truck can tow'. If you feel it will be too short, order what you want if need be, it may cost a few extra shillings from you initially but your friends will be able to borrow it and not break the ramps, lights, etc. You will be delighted when it comes home unscathed (I'm hinting at some thing here so consider that also). You already have the tractor and likely will long after your current pickup, so match the tractor weights to the trailer and then that to a tow vehicle, this will show what you need vs what you have. Stay within limits, think of possible implement additions, and most of all play it safe.
That's my advice and I hope it's worth more than what you paid for it.
All the best,
Martin
GeneD14
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</font><font color="blue" class="small">( You already have the tractor and likely will long after your current pickup, so match the tractor weights to the trailer and then that to a tow vehicle, this will show what you need vs what you have. Stay within limits, think of possible implement additions, and most of all play it safe.
)</font>
This is some great advice. To many times people focus on what they can get away with instead of how can they stay safe.
)</font>
This is some great advice. To many times people focus on what they can get away with instead of how can they stay safe.
penokee
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Yooper from another yooper - I looked at trailers for 2 years before I bought. Just about every trailer Dealer tried to sell me a trailer with 2 - 3,500 lb axels, even though I told them my old crawler weighed about 7,000 lb. Finally had one made with 2 - 6,000 lb axles, surge brakes, 10 ply tires, etc., only major MISTAKE was I had it made too short. Recently got a Kubota L3130 and when I move it with the Bush Hog attached, have to remove the FEL. Can move it with the Box Blade attached, but FEL hangs over front. My only advice, for what it's worth, is too get a trailer long enough (20' ?) and one with heavey enough axles to carry the load. I run Load Range E tires - if there's too much flex in your sidewalls I believe that may contribute to the trailer sway. Towing vehicle is important - every once in a while you see where the trailer bossed the towing vehicle. and it ain't pretty. A few pics to see how you have to load when trailer too short. Have fun.
penokee /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
penokee /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
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penokee
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penokee
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JeffRey30747
Gold Member
With that setup and my luck, I would have teeth marks on the tailgate before I got out of the driveway! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Jeff
Jeff
PBinWA
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Interesting thread and I like seeing all the pictures of other people's rigs.
I'm in a similar dilemna, I want a trailer that can haul my tractor but I also need a dump trailer for hauling dirt, manure, and landscaping stuff (I'm not expecting to move a lot of heavy stuff). I don't need to do both at the same time.
I'm thinking of getting a 16' - 20' foot double axle flatbed and then a big dump wagon ( Country mfg. dump wagon ).
I could load the dump wagon onto the flatbed when I needed to pick up dirt and stuff and have it loaded directly on the trailer. Then all I need to do is hook the wagon onto the tractor and role it off the flat bed.
Any one else thought of doing this? Am I missing a big downside? I don't think a 2 ton wagon (500lbs) loaded (4000lbs) would over load a double axle 7000lbs trailer. It might be close to the max load for the trailer. I have a Diesel 3/4 so that part isn't a big issue.
I think I could do this set up for 4K-5K and it would be pretty flexible as far as functionality and multiple uses.
Just curious on the TBN feedback on this concept.
I'm in a similar dilemna, I want a trailer that can haul my tractor but I also need a dump trailer for hauling dirt, manure, and landscaping stuff (I'm not expecting to move a lot of heavy stuff). I don't need to do both at the same time.
I'm thinking of getting a 16' - 20' foot double axle flatbed and then a big dump wagon ( Country mfg. dump wagon ).
I could load the dump wagon onto the flatbed when I needed to pick up dirt and stuff and have it loaded directly on the trailer. Then all I need to do is hook the wagon onto the tractor and role it off the flat bed.
Any one else thought of doing this? Am I missing a big downside? I don't think a 2 ton wagon (500lbs) loaded (4000lbs) would over load a double axle 7000lbs trailer. It might be close to the max load for the trailer. I have a Diesel 3/4 so that part isn't a big issue.
I think I could do this set up for 4K-5K and it would be pretty flexible as far as functionality and multiple uses.
Just curious on the TBN feedback on this concept.
RobS
Super Member
<font color="blue"> I could load the dump wagon onto the flatbed when I needed to pick up dirt and stuff and have it loaded directly on the trailer. Then all I need to do is hook the wagon onto the tractor and role it off the flat bed.
</font>
Hey, I love that idea! I've already got the flatbed and I am looking at some sort of wagon for the property. That is just the right combination. Thanks for thinking out of the box.
Only problem I could see would be getting the loaded wagon down the trailer ramps in a safe, controlled manner. Almost begs for a winch /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
</font>
Hey, I love that idea! I've already got the flatbed and I am looking at some sort of wagon for the property. That is just the right combination. Thanks for thinking out of the box.
Only problem I could see would be getting the loaded wagon down the trailer ramps in a safe, controlled manner. Almost begs for a winch /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Highbeam
Super Member
Also to load the wagon. It might be pretty tall.
Poke holes in the tailgate? I am pretty sure that's just what happened.
Poke holes in the tailgate? I am pretty sure that's just what happened.
PBinWA
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</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Only problem I could see would be getting the loaded wagon down the trailer ramps in a safe, controlled manner. Almost begs for a winch /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif )</font>
Yeah - that's one of those things I've thought about too. Fortunately, my property slopes so I could probably unload it up hill and just pull it straight off the trailer.
These things always take common sense though. If/When I do it I'll start with a small load.
I've been looking a flat beds and dump trailers. I need the flat bed for the road but really only need the dump trailer for the off-road. I don't think it will be much higher than a dump insert for the back of a pickup. And I know the big loader where I buy dirt and gravel can easily load it.
Yeah - that's one of those things I've thought about too. Fortunately, my property slopes so I could probably unload it up hill and just pull it straight off the trailer.
These things always take common sense though. If/When I do it I'll start with a small load.
I've been looking a flat beds and dump trailers. I need the flat bed for the road but really only need the dump trailer for the off-road. I don't think it will be much higher than a dump insert for the back of a pickup. And I know the big loader where I buy dirt and gravel can easily load it.
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As an owner of a Country Mfg. 2 ton dump trailer (not the wagon), I'm not too sure I'd be wanting to trailer one (or a wagon) loaded, on another trailer .... (unless I misunderstanding what you are intending to do)
How do you plan on securing it while in transit ? With chain binders on four points I hope ?
I've only had my Country dump trailer for a couple of weeks, and have only been using it for about a week or so since I got the hydraulics hooked up, so I'm no expert but here's a couple of thoughts.
For the price these were recently going for ($750) on their spring special, they are worth the money in my book. However, after getting an up close and personal look, I would not say that these are the most heavily constructed units ...... the frames are relatively light for what they are doing.
I've hauled over 28,000 lbs of sheep manure about 1200 feet, through a large field and a woods (uneven terrain) from the neighbors in the last couple of days .... going through the field I can move at a decent clip (but then the top speed on my B2910 is only around 11 mph - although I'm sure I'm not going half that speed), through the woods I slow down considerably (1-2 mph)
Higher speed (on the road, in a trailer) = more mass moving at a greater velocity = more inertia = more stress on components with any sudden changes.
I have loaded my dump trailer heaping with wet sheep manure .... if it don't weigh every bit of 4K lbs I'd be real surprised ..... and when I go to dump it I can see the dumpbed frame doing some very significant flexing from the sheer weight of the load.
I was in the process of fabbing a dump wagon using an E-ZTrail 2-ton running gear and decided that I needed to be getting something done in the nice weather other than fab work so I bought the Country unit .... I will finish up the E-ZTrail this winter. The bed I've built for it is far more heavily contructed than the Country unit (2"x3"x 1/4 & 1/8 box tube, not angle like the Country.)
After my limited experience I would even say the E-ZTrail (and the probably the Kory) 2 ton gears gears might be a bit light .... I think Larry Van Horn ended up going with a Kory 6 ton running gear as the basis for the dump wagon he built ... probably a very wise move on his part ..... it will probably last and won't get too torn up.
All I'm saying is that treated with some care these units are fine and will probably do alot of work ..... but I don't think they are heavy enough to take a whole lot of abuse. YMMV.
Happy hauling /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
How do you plan on securing it while in transit ? With chain binders on four points I hope ?
I've only had my Country dump trailer for a couple of weeks, and have only been using it for about a week or so since I got the hydraulics hooked up, so I'm no expert but here's a couple of thoughts.
For the price these were recently going for ($750) on their spring special, they are worth the money in my book. However, after getting an up close and personal look, I would not say that these are the most heavily constructed units ...... the frames are relatively light for what they are doing.
I've hauled over 28,000 lbs of sheep manure about 1200 feet, through a large field and a woods (uneven terrain) from the neighbors in the last couple of days .... going through the field I can move at a decent clip (but then the top speed on my B2910 is only around 11 mph - although I'm sure I'm not going half that speed), through the woods I slow down considerably (1-2 mph)
Higher speed (on the road, in a trailer) = more mass moving at a greater velocity = more inertia = more stress on components with any sudden changes.
I have loaded my dump trailer heaping with wet sheep manure .... if it don't weigh every bit of 4K lbs I'd be real surprised ..... and when I go to dump it I can see the dumpbed frame doing some very significant flexing from the sheer weight of the load.
I was in the process of fabbing a dump wagon using an E-ZTrail 2-ton running gear and decided that I needed to be getting something done in the nice weather other than fab work so I bought the Country unit .... I will finish up the E-ZTrail this winter. The bed I've built for it is far more heavily contructed than the Country unit (2"x3"x 1/4 & 1/8 box tube, not angle like the Country.)
After my limited experience I would even say the E-ZTrail (and the probably the Kory) 2 ton gears gears might be a bit light .... I think Larry Van Horn ended up going with a Kory 6 ton running gear as the basis for the dump wagon he built ... probably a very wise move on his part ..... it will probably last and won't get too torn up.
All I'm saying is that treated with some care these units are fine and will probably do alot of work ..... but I don't think they are heavy enough to take a whole lot of abuse. YMMV.
Happy hauling /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
RobS
Super Member
Excellent review of the country mfg wagon rswyan! I've been contemplating some sort of wagon for use around the property. You might consider starting a new thread on wagons and copy/paste your text. A lot of us might be interested in that discussion (and I hate to hijack this thread for a discussion on wagons) /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
