Trailer liability insurance question

[jeffster]

Ok, so long story short, I have a dump trailer that I use quite a bit (and every blue moon for hauling the tractor). I know I am covered by my truck liability policy when towing and I do have a separate policy on the trailer in case of damage, theft, etc.

Now, I have two questions, neither of which my insurance agent has answered very clearly (am thinking she doesn't really know just yet).

1. If I decide to do a For Hire job (basically changing from personal to commercial for a specific "job"), are normal personal auto insurance policies still applicable? In other words, I don't want to find out I don't have valid insurance if I decided to do some commercial work.

2. What if I loaned out the trailer to a family member or friend? I understand the liability insurance is associated with the tow vehicle, but what if there was an accident and the policy limits were exceeded (say the injured party sues for more than the coverage amount). Is there any way at all I am liable because I own the trailer? I know, I am probably going to have to ask an attorney on this one.

I know there is a religious debate on whether to loan a trailer or not, so I don't want to rehash that out here. Just wanting to know if I DO loan it out, am I going to be putting my ASSets on the line?

Thanks all!

 

[powerstroke444e]

My reccomendation (I am licensed in IL) would be to have your trailer listed on an auto policy with same liablity limits as your truck which you should have high enough limits to cover your assets. With my company if you have a business policy you would need to put it on a Commercial vechile policy if you have one. If you don't you should not use the truck or trailer over 50% for business/commercial insurance, but you would not have any coverage for the cargo.

 

[Skyco]

1> Can't say for sure.

2> Oh yes! If YOU own the trailer and there is a lawsuit due to an accident involving the trailer you can BET you'll be named since you were the OWNER.

 

[jeffster]

Thanks for the info guys. I wasn't sure how that worked if someone else was pulling the trailer and got in an accident. Since we are talking hypotheticals, what happens if it was stolen and then in an accident?

You know, on an aside, I love this country, but we are the most screwed up country in the world when it comes to litigation. We have totally legislated common sense out of everything. Case in point, my grandfather helped build the high school stadium years and years ago (about 40 years ago, to be exact). This year it had to be torn down and the school wants to build a new stadium. Even though there are plenty of people that would love to help and build a new one like they did before, we can't because of the liability. So instead we get to spend a ton of money and have it commercially done. So much for people helping each other out...

 

[AlanB]

Jeffster, I think the bottom line is folks can sue you for anything, so to think you can be absolutely protected by insurance is just wishful thinking (which from your posts, I think you know)

For MY case, all my insurance, particularly about the trailers changes between my personal trucks, and the commercial trucks, and if you search back, you will find where I posted about the day I learned of this difference (after paying premiums for 4 years or so thinking I was covered)

My personal view, if your agent cannot explain and write it clearly to you, there is no way in heck you are covered. My personal opinion is that the insurance will try and weasel out of paying ANY way they can, and if it is a personal policy, and they can make a case that you were doing commercial stuff, I think they will hang you out to dry so quick it will make your head spin.

That said, all I think any of us can do, is to read carefully (I still don't, that is why I hire an agent) and realize when we are increasing our risks. Millions of people do and get away with things every day, but you have to be congnizant that you are running risks, and weigh out the benefits of what you are doing.

Good luck and in the FWIW my insurance is about $60 per year, per trailer for the extra riders on my commercial (liability only, nothing for what is on the trailers) and is included Liability only on my non-commercial vehicles.

No matter what is on my trailers, it is not covered unless covered under it's own policy (such as the tractors)

 

[LBrown59]

Since we are talking hypotheticals, what happens if it was stolen and then in an accident?

.

From what I can gather an owner can't be held responsible for stolen property.

 

[Scrounger]

I just added a 16' Aluminum tandem wheel trailer to my policy which has pretty high coverage and it basically ended up being an extra $32 a year to the policy. Worth it I would think.

 

[MarkLeininger]

1. If I decide to do a For Hire job (basically changing from personal to commercial for a specific "job"), are normal personal auto insurance policies still applicable? In other words, I don't want to find out I don't have valid insurance if I decided to do some commercial work.

I was not covered on my policy with American Family, I had to add some business thing on top that didn't cost very much money, can't remember. They also said the cheapest way to cover myself for any kind of wacky lawyer stuff was to buy a high value umbrella liability policy. That kicks in on top of anything else if the coverage limit is exceeded. Didn't cost too much either, and I think I took $2M coverage.

 

[LBrown59]

but you would not have any coverage for the cargo.

so how do you protect that?

 

[Rara Avis]

Ok, so long story short, I have a dump trailer that I use quite a bit (and every blue moon for hauling the tractor). I know I am covered by my truck liability policy when towing and I do have a separate policy on the trailer in case of damage, theft, etc.

Now, I have two questions, neither of which my insurance agent has answered very clearly (am thinking she doesn't really know just yet).

1. If I decide to do a For Hire job (basically changing from personal to commercial for a specific "job"), are normal personal auto insurance policies still applicable? In other words, I don't want to find out I don't have valid insurance if I decided to do some commercial work.

2. What if I loaned out the trailer to a family member or friend? I understand the liability insurance is associated with the tow vehicle, but what if there was an accident and the policy limits were exceeded (say the injured party sues for more than the coverage amount). Is there any way at all I am liable because I own the trailer? I know, I am probably going to have to ask an attorney on this one.

I know there is a religious debate on whether to loan a trailer or not, so I don't want to rehash that out here. Just wanting to know if I DO loan it out, am I going to be putting my ASSets on the line?

Thanks all!

1. If a death or serious injury results from FOR-HIRE activity...I am willing to bet that your non-commercial insurance will cut you loose it a heartbeat...

2. If someone STEALS your truck and trailer and gets in an accident...a good attorney will sue you, WHY?...Because you have insurance...

 

[LBrown59]

. If someone STEALS your truck and trailer and gets in an accident...a good attorney will sue you, WHY?...Because you have insurance...

But you don't have insurance in that case.

 

[LoneCowboy]

In colorado (insurance is very state specific, YMMV), if it's your private trailer, it needs no insurance, it goes with the truck. (since clearly it can't operate on it's own). However, if you want collision/comprehensive, that's seperate (although pretty cheap).

BUT

If you use it commercially.
a. You need a commercial policy for your truck. (and it's about twice what a non-commercial policy is).
b. You need a commercial policy for your trailer (about $100, m/l)

If you want to cover whatever you are hauling (tractor), you need yet another policy. (Inland Marine is the common one), it's like $7/$1000 covered/year, not bad)

Now, that you are using your vehicle commercially, you need to follow commercial vehicle rules. (even if you are under 26,000lbs).
Name and phone number on door. Some states require US DOT numbers (some only when you go over 26,000lbs and some only when you go inter-state, check US DOT website).
US DOT annual inspections on both truck and trailer.
You are subject to mobile DOT checkpoints (and in some states scales, although not here if under 26,000lbs) You need a fire extinguisher (10:b:c), safety triangles, extra fuses)

If it's just one job, just do it for free, then it's not commercial and you are subject to none of this. If you want to charge, you better charge properly to recover ALL of your costs.

Oh, you'll need liability insurance for your business too (whatever you are doing, excavating/mowing/whatever). Some states you also need workman's comp.

 

[LoneCowboy]

In response to your 2nd question.
If you are not commercial, insurance follows the car, not the trailer, not the driver (in Colorado anyway, YMMV), therefore if they are using their tow vehicle, then it's their liability insurance, although if they wreck the trailer, it's your comprehensive insurance that replaces it (and subrogates their insurance to pay for it)

If you are commercial, then YOUR policies follow it, along with YOUR rules. (i.e. THEY are now driving a commercial vehicle).

 

[john_bud]

In colorado (insurance is very state specific, YMMV), if it's your private trailer, it needs no insurance, it goes with the truck. (since clearly it can't operate on it's own). However, if you want collision/comprehensive, that's seperate (although pretty cheap).

BUT

If you use it commercially.
a. You need a commercial policy for your truck. (and it's about twice what a non-commercial policy is).
b. You need a commercial policy for your trailer (about $100, m/l)

If you want to cover whatever you are hauling (tractor), you need yet another policy. (Inland Marine is the common one), it's like $7/$1000 covered/year, not bad)

Now, that you are using your vehicle commercially, you need to follow commercial vehicle rules. (even if you are under 26,000lbs).
Name and phone number on door. Some states require US DOT numbers (some only when you go over 26,000lbs and some only when you go inter-state, check US DOT website).
US DOT annual inspections on both truck and trailer.
You are subject to mobile DOT checkpoints (and in some states scales, although not here if under 26,000lbs) You need a fire extinguisher (10:b:c), safety triangles, extra fuses)

If it's just one job, just do it for free, then it's not commercial and you are subject to none of this. If you want to charge, you better charge properly to recover ALL of your costs.

Oh, you'll need liability insurance for your business too (whatever you are doing, excavating/mowing/whatever). Some states you also need workman's comp.

You're absolutely correct on the commercial stuff! PITA

FEDERAL Statutes apply when you cross state lines and FEDERAL statutes say that you MUST have USDOT numbers if the truck, trailer and load is 10,001 pounds or more. Some states (mine) also have adopted the 10,001 pound limit for in state use. I think it's more a push from the unions than anything else, but it has turned into a money machine aimed at non-city dwellers.

 

[coobie]

Ok, so long story short, I have a dump trailer that I use quite a bit (and every blue moon for hauling the tractor). I know I am covered by my truck liability policy when towing and I do have a separate policy on the trailer in case of damage, theft, etc.

Now, I have two questions, neither of which my insurance agent has answered very clearly (am thinking she doesn't really know just yet).

1. If I decide to do a For Hire job (basically changing from personal to commercial for a specific "job"), are normal personal auto insurance policies still applicable? In other words, I don't want to find out I don't have valid insurance if I decided to do some commercial work.

2. What if I loaned out the trailer to a family member or friend? I understand the liability insurance is associated with the tow vehicle, but what if there was an accident and the policy limits were exceeded (say the injured party sues for more than the coverage amount). Is there any way at all I am liable because I own the trailer? I know, I am probably going to have to ask an attorney on this one.

I know there is a religious debate on whether to loan a trailer or not, so I don't want to rehash that out here. Just wanting to know if I DO loan it out, am I going to be putting my ASSets on the line?

Thanks all!

I live in Michigan and this is what my insurance agent told me.My trailer towed behind my truck non-commerical is only covered for $500 replacment value if wrecked.My 2 trailers cost $2000 and $3300 dollars new so I took out a seperate writer for $22 bucks per trailer for 12 months coverage for full replacment value.coobie