tractors in the wrong direction

nomad · Feb 3, 2004

No no, not tractors, tractor drivers sitting wrong, backward.

When I saw the picture given in "3 way dump trailer" and looked at the driver looking his behind, with a 180 degree turned head - I remembered the old pain in my neck while I was driving much to plow a land, to unload a trailer, etc. So, I thought this could be another topic here -

Don't you think somethings with the tractor designs are wrong? I have always thought before somethings must have been wrong. Anyway - aren't most of works by tractors and their drivers being done at the back? So, why no design to consider their necks of tractor drivers? I'm serious. I have a quick solution; driver seat, steering wheel, etc should be in the backward direction so that our tractor driver can do the work without feeling any neck pain when they operating their attachments. Seriously... tractors have wrong designs. They are going in the correct direction, but their drivers are going in the wrong direction.

CTyler · Feb 3, 2004

Yea but then you have to turn around to see where your going. More often than not I'm looking forward.

Perhaps a seat on the implement with a remote controll. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

LoganWildman · Feb 3, 2004

How about putting the controls, ie steering wheel, shifter, and hydraulic controls on a seat that can rotate 180 deg. side to side. that way, you aren't straining the neck.

JASTN70D · Feb 3, 2004

Would a set of mirror's be to high tech.? /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

jimg · Feb 3, 2004

NH does address this to a degree w/ the swivelling seat...Im sure others do as well. I forget the exact numbers but the seat swivels something like 15 or 20 degrees right and left of straight ahead. Ive tryed it out and it works OK. Im not sure most folks would want to pay the cost of a swiveling seat and instrument panel.

rockyridgefarm · Feb 3, 2004

Fortunately, Deere is in the process of "reinventing the tractor" I am sure they are consulting with nomad.... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

nomad · Feb 3, 2004

JSDK55, no, set of mirror's not a high tech - but, seeing aged ourselves in the mirror will make us feel old tech

.

Swivelling tractor seat which can swivel only 15-20 deg.? I don't think these will be helpful. (just turned my body 15-20 deg and it's not enough at all.) But this swivelling degree of the seat can be increased, I guess. What is its approx. selling price of such seat?

Rockyridgefarm, Deere has not thought about our necks for decades and now, why should they run their green-ish minds? Just because I questioned this old classical problem here? However, if they need my help, here am I on TBN /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif for their questions in this thread.

jimg · Feb 3, 2004

No clue what the seat itself costs. They sell it as part of the tractor. From what I can figure its not a retrofit type deal...either your NH tractor was designed for this type of seat or it wasnt. If it wasnt then the part wont fit. When I tryed this type of seat out I though it was much more comfortable than twisting my neck/body only...in fact surprisingly so. Long term maybe it would be less than OK. You should give it a try before you discount it.

nomad · Feb 3, 2004

So, it's not being sold as a replacement seat for other tractors. I think such a seat can be made with a simple mechanism, an addition of rotatable bottom plate. This small mechanism can be added to the bottom of any seat if made properly universal.

RobS · Feb 3, 2004

I'll argue that tractor seats point in the direction of most frequent use AND in the direction of most potential safety issues. It's also the best orientation for FEL and any other front/mid mount implements. By having implement hook ups at each end of the tractor, there are bound to be compromises. The swivel seat on the NH is an elegant solution in my opinion.

Ever sit in a large Cat earthmover. The seat is at a permanent angle. The operator can still see to the front but the nature of the machine requires a fair amount of his/her attention to the rear. It's still a compromise but the manufacturer at least considered the operator to a degree.

Remember the GM vehicles with Heads Up Displays several years back? (maybe still available?). Patterned after the displays in fighter jets. Trouble is, in a fighter jet the operators attention is primarily focussed on the instrumentation and much less so on the visual surroundings. Quite the opposite in a car. The driver needs to pay strict attention to the visual surroundings with only an occasional need to assess the instruments. HUD does not address the needs of an automobile driver (IMHO).

Huge Leap Here...

Tractors (ag anyway) aren't in the wrong direction, they are working in a poor environment. The soil prep and planting is currently done in place with multiple trips through the field. This is inefficient as evidenced by the modern day combine. One trip through the field harvests the crop so why can't one trip through the field plant it as well? A large, combine-like machine would cut the soil and bring it INTO the machine to be processed. Soil would be assessed, ammended, fertilized and planted all in a continuous process within the machine. Out the back flows the processed and planted soil. Carts deliver the amendments, fertilizers and seed to the "planting combine" just as carts take the harvested seed away from the harvesting combine. Operator sits facing the front just like in a harvest combine.

There, that should keep you busy for a while Nomad /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

milkman · Feb 3, 2004

That makes sense to me, the old Allis Chalmer G, had the mount for the impliments behind the front wheels, of course a 22 ft disk would be hard to fit there. I have always thought that bulldozers had their seats on the wrong end, you can't see the blade very well.

Soundguy · Feb 3, 2004

Lots of our large heavy equipment.. especially earth engageing ones have canted seats, or seats that are mouinted at a right angle to the length o f the tractor. In effect, looking front or back is the same. On one unit, the break pedal is in the middle of the operators console, and as Imentioned , you sit either on the right or left side. Break operates from either direction as it is hooked up via a clevis and linkage. ( It is a rubber tired roller ).

As for our farm tractors. While I do occasionaly look back to check things.. I'll bet that is less than 10% of my time.. Most of it is staring ahead, grinning ear to ear..

Soundguy

RobS · Feb 3, 2004

I have always thought that bulldozers had their seats on the wrong end, you can't see the blade very well 

Maybe dozers will evolve as concrete mixers have. Used to be a mixer body was thrown on the back of a conventional truck chassis with the chute out the back. Fine for travelling down the road but not convenient for the operator unloading at the job site. Around here now-a-days all we see are the front discharge mixers where the end of the drum and the chute are at the front of the truck where the the cab is and the engine is way out back. Maybe a similar architecture could be applied to a dozer /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

jimg · Feb 3, 2004

/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Right...I think NH believes theyre in the business of making whole tractors and not just seats. This of course would be a great opportunity for some enterprising soul to make their mark. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

jimg · Feb 3, 2004

"Remember the GM vehicles with Heads Up Displays several years back? (maybe still available?). Patterned after the displays in fighter jets. Trouble is, in a fighter jet the operators attention is primarily focussed on the instrumentation and much less so on the visual surroundings. Quite the opposite in a car. The driver needs to pay strict attention to the visual surroundings with only an occasional need to assess the instruments. HUD does not address the needs of an automobile driver (IMHO)."
I dont know about that...I see a lot of folks every morning on the hwy 'driving by instruments'...or perhaps theyre reading the newpaper. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Sorry I'm confused. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

milkman · Feb 3, 2004

That works a lot better for the mixers, in my early days i used to spend the day dragging 3/4 in wrecker cable to pull those rear dumpers into building sites, sure made me sleep well, now they have pumps for that. One day I saw some idiot pull out in front of one of the front dump concrete trucks, he had to get on the brakes really hard and dumped part of his load out of the drum onto the roadway. I'm sure he was using some choice words.

RobS · Feb 3, 2004

Most of it is staring ahead, grinning ear to ear 

Hey, I know that seating position very well /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

ScottAR · Feb 3, 2004

Just replying to the bottom of the thread.

Valtra and several other European manufacters as a well as the New Holland already mentioned do have rotating seats/controls.

Dozers are gonna stay front engined for awhile. Eimco tried the "operator in front" setup and it wasn't popular. Little downpressure on the blade with the engine mounted behind and poor visibility when backing. Dozers spend nearly as much time backing as pushing.
Track loaders on the other hand, work much better as rear engined machines. The engine makes an instant counterweight.

nomad · Feb 3, 2004

( ...Valtra and several other European manufacters as a well as the New Holland already mentioned do have rotating seats...)

Mentioned NH seat can rotate 15-20 degree according to Jimg above. Is it same/less/more degree at those other European tractors? To my "neck", seat should rotate at least 40-45 deg.

RobS (and Soundguy who says looking at the rear while driving his tractor takes only 10% of his driving time),.. well, you maybe right because you are using CUT, i.e. little use of attachments. So, of course, you would staring ahead with grinning ear to ear. I guess you've never felt the neck pain like real farmers have. Tractor MFGs/designers/etc too are probably like you, users of CUTs only.

Taylortractornut · Feb 3, 2004

Milkman a few companies made front seated dozers, Eimco is the main company. They had a rear engine front seat line. Also a German company made one to. the thing with the front operator is clearing and quarry work mainly something rolling onto the cab or a branch going through it. The hightrack Caterpillars do feel like your riding on the front of the machine with the improved visibilty. Ive run few scrapers with the seat on a 45 for fine grading to. I usually sit sideways on a roller or compactor because of the repetetive backing and trying to stay out of the same tracks each time. Ill post a picture of a 103 Eimco dozer if its the coorect size.