Tractor will not start

mffarmall · Dec 11, 2013

Hey all,

Sorry about posting this. But I really am not sure where to start. Just finished the 4x4 rebuild and she won't turn over. What I have done to date and then what I don't see happening.

1. New battery (825 700cc) not 900 but could replace with free trade in.
2. cleaned all connections + and - even ground and starter.
3. cleaned out gas bowl and primed injectors. She has been siting from Sept. when primed took 50 pumps to get fuel to come out of plunger
4. checked fuses
5. Used starter fluid just to help
6. Blow out air filter

What it does
Turns starter like she is weak
No smoke at all
starter heats up quick

once again, sorry about posting this before really hunting post. Looked through first few pages. But it just kills me that I have to fix it before I can see if I fixed it.

Wa11banger · Dec 11, 2013

verify starter wire

If I remember correctly you only did a drive train rebuild and didn't touch the engine so I would verify clutch disengaging fully and not dragging

Not enough CC amps will definitely give the slow crank symptom verify battery is optimally charged. Not enough amps from battery can cause starter to overheat as well

Does popping your compression relief valve make it turn over easier? If so see above

Don't hit it with ether, way to volatile.. If you are at your last straw and want to help it mildly, soak a small rag with gasoline wring it out real good and stick on air cleaner. Will provide a fairly safe extra punch and will not over rev once started.

I know this is not much but also to help see possible connection issues as the culprit try to start when almost dark.. Any week connection should give off a small spark and help you identify if any are there.

Sorry not much help but I hope you find it quick

Affordable · Dec 11, 2013

Sounds like your hydraulics may be deadheading , causing some back pressure on the hydraulic pump, check your quick connects

Tommy
Affordable Tractor Sales
"Your Jinma Parts Superstore"
Home of compact Jinma, Foton, and Koyker Tractors and Parts, Wood Chippers, Backhoes - Affordable Tractor Sales Company

Diamondpilot · Dec 11, 2013

Check your hydraulic connections. Did you remove a FEL for this job?

Chris

ArtMech · Dec 11, 2013

In order to make the advices effective, lets separate an engine start failure into 2 steps:
1/ Does starter turn engine freely in neutral gear?
2/ Does engine not start while being freely turned by a starter?

If starter heats up quick, check the +wire (thick one) on a starter if it's not loosen first, like Rick has stated. When you provide correct turning of engine by starter, then it needs to go further.
Keep us up to date.

RalphVa · Dec 11, 2013

Rebuilt engines can often be very stiff. Dad often had to tow his tractors to start them. Won't work with hydro tractors though.

May need a heftier battery or a jump with one. Wa11banger had some good suggestions.

Maybe squirt some oil into each cylinder? Maybe an aerasol like with WD4 would work the best.

Ralph

mffarmall · Dec 11, 2013

Sorry if Im not complete, in the car. But yes I took off fel and the starter got hot fast. The hydrolic lines shake when turn key. How do you releace the presure in the line.

mffarmall · Dec 11, 2013

The engine will not turn. I dont feel the pistons move

Wa11banger · Dec 11, 2013

ok so for clarification.. Was it turning over just slow to begin with and now not turning over is a new symptom?

quicksandfarmer · Dec 11, 2013

mffarmall said:
But yes I took off fel and the starter got hot fast. The hydrolic lines shake when turn key. How do you releace the presure in the line.

Are the two lines connected to each other? There needs to be a path from the pump to complete the circuit. The pump moves a constant amount of fluid per revolution, without a path the pump jams. That's what people mean by "deadheading." On my Jinma the starter can't overcome a deadheaded pump.

Affordable · Dec 11, 2013

When you take the loader off you have to put the 2- hydraulic lines together

Tommy
Affordable Tractor Sales
"Your Jinma Parts Superstore"
Home of compact Jinma, Foton, and Koyker Tractors and Parts, Wood Chippers, Backhoes - Affordable Tractor Sales Company

mffarmall · Dec 11, 2013

I said from the first post sorry about posting this. I was looking right at it and did not even notice that. It takes the smallest things. Thank you all. I'm starting to get grey smoke. It wants to turn over. I will need to get a new battery and I am not seeing any pull for the glows. So I need to check fuses and probably pull them.

SPIKER · Dec 11, 2013

mffarmall said:
I said from the first post sorry about posting this. I was looking right at it and did not even notice that. It takes the smallest things. Thank you all. I'm starting to get grey smoke. It wants to turn over. I will need to get a new battery and I am not seeing any pull for the glows. So I need to check fuses and probably pull them.

So you are saying you forgot to hook up the hyd lines Quick Disconnects as Tommy at Affordable noted on the first page?

What happened as the starter began turning the fluid had no where to go that was in the pump lines. It MAY have damaged the Hyd Pump, it does not take much on these things to pop the end seal or split the pump Aluminum Housing. Before going any farther you need to inspect the Pump, (look at housing for damage.) There are "Check Balls" on the ends of the QDs. you may be able to PUSH in on them to release the pressure buildup of the dont go in easy-ish then there is Pressure built up in the lines. This may bleed off after a few hours on it's own or you can bump the check balls on smooth softer CLEAN surface to let the pressure pop off. Then you can re-hook them up HOPEFULLY.

The 700CCA battery is probably too small as well, so I would get the bigger 900+ CCA ASAP. Since you overheated the started the Brushes may have melted as well crossing some of the commutator gaps which will keep it from working correctly. Cleaning them some times works but the starter has to be disassembled for this. I have photos of mine after the Hyd QD shorted my starter out burnt up my starter as it kept cranking till the battery was 100% dead. It wore the brushes completely out but didn't damage the starter it's self. Click the photo & it will take you to my photos of the starter & tractor pics. There are photos of the Hyd Pump there as well, a few photos to the right shows that.

I rebuilt my Hyd Pump but had the end plates too tight and it did same thing as you are describing, the starter Wined from electric current flowing but would not turn the eng over. I ended up having to replace my pump as it just would not work after rebuilding it. I learned later I had over tightened the end plates crushing the gears in the pump. I have a spare now

EDIT IN: How did the clutch change go!? Was it pretty straight forward (not including leaving hoses disconnected)?

Anyhow wish you luck.

Mark

mffarmall · Dec 12, 2013

Got it. Got it started today. figured I needed a stronger battery and it turned over right away.

Problem: put it into 4x4 and the front wheels turn in reverse. I will take it that I put the axle housing main gear was put in backwards?

Rich Waugh · Dec 13, 2013

Now that could make for some interesting times in 4WD! I do suspect something is 180° out of phase in there.

mffarmall · Dec 13, 2013

It was having a **** of a time fighting itself, like a dog chasing its tail.

mffarmall · Dec 13, 2013

every step of the way something is going to get me with this one. The small drain under the housing will not give. I really don't want to fight it. I will get to it later. But they could have just put it facing to the rear and have it stick out a bit.

Soundguy · Dec 13, 2013

so... are the chinese EVER going to design a machine that is not prone to deadheading the hyds?

relief valves on the pump output just can not be that expensive.

Can't believe how many years I've been reading about deadheaded pumps on tractors and 99.9999999% of the time it
s a chinese tractor with plumbing that makes it easy to deadhead.....

gotta love it....

ps. this isn't a jab at the OP.. it's a jab at a poorly though out design that could be cheap;y and easilly fixed.. but hasn't been..

( maybee they like to sell repalcement hyd pumps.. hmm.. may be on to something...

)

mffarmall · Dec 13, 2013

I have to axle open and I see that if I am looking forward the main gear is sitting on the right side of the gear that spins it. I will take it that I need to turn it over 180 and put everything back together?