HayDR
Veteran Member, Approved Advertiser
A Bobcat with tracks on it is like going from a 2 WD tractor to a 4 WD tractor.
Tractor vs. Skid Steer
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RobertN
Super Member
3pt hitches and pto drive are available aftermarket. I looked a while back; I think it was $1500 or there.
ASVi has thier own 3pt setup for one of thier track loaders, but the machine is a big one(80hp or so I think).
Since using the track loader, especially with suspension, I have been impressed, as can be seen in my posts. I'm just not in posistion to spend right now.
ASVi has thier own 3pt setup for one of thier track loaders, but the machine is a big one(80hp or so I think).
Since using the track loader, especially with suspension, I have been impressed, as can be seen in my posts. I'm just not in posistion to spend right now.
grandad
Platinum Member
Those tracked units sure look to be the way to go in a skidsteer. But either type seems best suited for job site, commercial and farm/ranch situations where there is no concern about tearing up the lawn, pasture, driveway, etc. every time you make a turn.
Have you ever compared cost figures for a skidsteer implement vs. the equivalent 3pt type? I don't know but would guess the skidsteer stuff would be quite a bit more costly since it would run from hydraulics vs. PTO and may be designed more for commercial-duty than most small tractor implements.
Some of the newer skidsteers have full climate controlled cabs, but every one of the good 'ol boys I know that have one picks the grit from their teeth at quittin' time. They are the only people on the planet that can make me feel downright genteel after a day on the tractor!
Have you ever compared cost figures for a skidsteer implement vs. the equivalent 3pt type? I don't know but would guess the skidsteer stuff would be quite a bit more costly since it would run from hydraulics vs. PTO and may be designed more for commercial-duty than most small tractor implements.
Some of the newer skidsteers have full climate controlled cabs, but every one of the good 'ol boys I know that have one picks the grit from their teeth at quittin' time. They are the only people on the planet that can make me feel downright genteel after a day on the tractor!
I would agree from observing the various professionals work on my construction project, the skid-steers with tracks (track loaders) are the way to go for off-road use. There does not appear to be very many skid steer products in the "estate" or sub-compact range of size, cost, or heavy-dutiness.
The ASV comes close, but still it appears to be designed and marketed to the rental industry. Anything else?
I am working on putting the hydraulics and mount adapter on my CUT so I can take Skid-Steer and mini-loader attachments that are much easier to rent.
Also, the hydraulic drive on many of the attachments gives you more control and reverse! Where the PTO version of the same thing probably uses the PTO clutch which is either engaged or not and probably has no reverse.
So, in a perfect world, you would have four machines in your garage/shed:
1. A ZTR or front-mount mower dedicated for finish mowing. Might be useful for snowblowing as well if it has that option and a cab.
2. A smaller skid steer / track-loader with a bucket, forks, and maybe a 6-way mini dozer blade. Add a snow blade and delete the snowblower above if you like to plow instead of blow.
3. A mini track-hoe for any excavating.
4. A CUT for brush-cutting and any pulled-behind light-ground engaging and actual cultivating. Things like a harrow, rake, seeder, aerator come to mind.
Many "estate" size CUT's try and combine functions 1,2, and 4. Add a BH for 3. They tend to be a compromise on any given task, or optimized for tassks 1 or 4 and marginal on the others.
Machines like the John Deere 110 TLB try and combine functions 2,3, and 4 and give up on finish mowing, but since finish mowing is a primary chore for many "estate" owners, its a poor choice of machine for them.
Maybe a "kit" machine that can be configured for each use:
A power plant with hydraulics: 20, 50, or 100 HP options.
A cab and control system.
A swappable under-carriage: tracks, tracks with a rotating platform (like a mini-hoe), skid-wheels, or 4-wheel steering wheels.
Loader arms on the front with a skid-steer style quick attach.
A 3-point on the back.
A hard-mount backhoe on the front, but with the operator remaining in the main cab/seat so they can also drive around like a mini-track-hoe can.
All pieces quick-attach. Worst case configuration change on level, hard ground: 10 minutes.
- Rick
The ASV comes close, but still it appears to be designed and marketed to the rental industry. Anything else?
I am working on putting the hydraulics and mount adapter on my CUT so I can take Skid-Steer and mini-loader attachments that are much easier to rent.
Also, the hydraulic drive on many of the attachments gives you more control and reverse! Where the PTO version of the same thing probably uses the PTO clutch which is either engaged or not and probably has no reverse.
So, in a perfect world, you would have four machines in your garage/shed:
1. A ZTR or front-mount mower dedicated for finish mowing. Might be useful for snowblowing as well if it has that option and a cab.
2. A smaller skid steer / track-loader with a bucket, forks, and maybe a 6-way mini dozer blade. Add a snow blade and delete the snowblower above if you like to plow instead of blow.
3. A mini track-hoe for any excavating.
4. A CUT for brush-cutting and any pulled-behind light-ground engaging and actual cultivating. Things like a harrow, rake, seeder, aerator come to mind.
Many "estate" size CUT's try and combine functions 1,2, and 4. Add a BH for 3. They tend to be a compromise on any given task, or optimized for tassks 1 or 4 and marginal on the others.
Machines like the John Deere 110 TLB try and combine functions 2,3, and 4 and give up on finish mowing, but since finish mowing is a primary chore for many "estate" owners, its a poor choice of machine for them.
Maybe a "kit" machine that can be configured for each use:
A power plant with hydraulics: 20, 50, or 100 HP options.
A cab and control system.
A swappable under-carriage: tracks, tracks with a rotating platform (like a mini-hoe), skid-wheels, or 4-wheel steering wheels.
Loader arms on the front with a skid-steer style quick attach.
A 3-point on the back.
A hard-mount backhoe on the front, but with the operator remaining in the main cab/seat so they can also drive around like a mini-track-hoe can.
All pieces quick-attach. Worst case configuration change on level, hard ground: 10 minutes.
- Rick
BigAl
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For a easy answer to your question , drive by your local rental yard . You will find 10 CUT's and 2 Skid Steers at the one here in my town . They are in business to make money and know what seems to rent best , for a person's needs . The CUT's just have more ability to do different jobs than the Skid Steers for the average homeowner . I know that statement will make a few Skid Steer owners mad ,but it is not intended to . Confined area's = skid steer , hills and rougher ground = CUT
Big Al
Big Al
BigAl
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My Bother is a concrete contractor and has a skid steer .I do not think they dig better . He uses them for the tight cornering and ability to get where CUT's would have a problem getting .
Big Al
Big Al
grandad
Platinum Member
That will be one BIG garage!
RobertN
Super Member
I've used skidsteers and track-loaders. Of note, you can see what you are loading. Most skid steers are bigger than CUT's, with more loader capacity. They also tend towards more hydraulic system capacity, since they run hydraulic implments.
The Bobcat 463 I used is more comparable to my B8200 for hp and lift capacity. It could do loader operations faster, and seemed to dig better, but it had a toothbar bucket. Mostly it manuevered faster, even though top ground sped was slower. Oh, and at 36" wide, it fit in REAL tight places...
The Bobcat 463 I used is more comparable to my B8200 for hp and lift capacity. It could do loader operations faster, and seemed to dig better, but it had a toothbar bucket. Mostly it manuevered faster, even though top ground sped was slower. Oh, and at 36" wide, it fit in REAL tight places...
RobertN
Super Member
There are not many "CUT" sized skid steers and/or track loaders. Bobcat's 463 comes to mind, as does the ASVi RC30. There is also a New Holland and a Mustang that is small, but with gas engines???
For cost, skid steers are more expensive, and rubber track-loaders even more.
Out here, I have not found anywhere to rent 3pt equipment. But, "skidsteer" type implemnets are available.
I could see the track-loader doing most things, except for pulling; that is why Farmall's were invented /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
In a perfect world, for me at least, imho, fwiw, A track-loader could do most work. For finish mowing and pulling, cultivating ect an Farmall-Super-A or AC-B(or maybe an so ugly it's cool AC-G) is the ticket. 'Course, my Farmall has won parades while towing Cub Scout floats, so I'm kinda partial.
Most of your post is right on the mark though. Of importance I think front quick attach with hydrualics, and back quick attach is important. I wish 3pt attach was as simple as the "universal skisteer attach". Some aftermarket hitches come close, but I have not fessed up the $$$ for them /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
For cost, skid steers are more expensive, and rubber track-loaders even more.
Out here, I have not found anywhere to rent 3pt equipment. But, "skidsteer" type implemnets are available.
I could see the track-loader doing most things, except for pulling; that is why Farmall's were invented /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
In a perfect world, for me at least, imho, fwiw, A track-loader could do most work. For finish mowing and pulling, cultivating ect an Farmall-Super-A or AC-B(or maybe an so ugly it's cool AC-G) is the ticket. 'Course, my Farmall has won parades while towing Cub Scout floats, so I'm kinda partial.
Most of your post is right on the mark though. Of importance I think front quick attach with hydrualics, and back quick attach is important. I wish 3pt attach was as simple as the "universal skisteer attach". Some aftermarket hitches come close, but I have not fessed up the $$$ for them /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
Soundguy
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</font><font color="blue" class="small">( A skid steer is.. probably more rugged )</font>
My 50 and 60 year old ford tractors that still pull mowers and plows on original engine with no rebuild might dispute that fact.
One thing I'll say... If they last to the ages that many antique tractors get to, while still being usefull. ( 50-60-70ys ) you will probably find that they will eat you alive on hydraulic repairs. as those machines are a big mass of pumps, hoses, and rams, bolted to a frame with a seat, and tires and engine..
Not knocking the skid steer. It fills an important role that a tractor is obviously only 2nd best at. Tractors are great all-around machines.. and really only specialized at a couple things ( traction engine. )
Soundguy
My 50 and 60 year old ford tractors that still pull mowers and plows on original engine with no rebuild might dispute that fact.
One thing I'll say... If they last to the ages that many antique tractors get to, while still being usefull. ( 50-60-70ys ) you will probably find that they will eat you alive on hydraulic repairs. as those machines are a big mass of pumps, hoses, and rams, bolted to a frame with a seat, and tires and engine..
Not knocking the skid steer. It fills an important role that a tractor is obviously only 2nd best at. Tractors are great all-around machines.. and really only specialized at a couple things ( traction engine. )
Soundguy
Soundguy
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</font><font color="blue" class="small">( A skid steer has a world of attachments that a CUT would not have the Hydraulic capacity to use )</font>
I think you will find that 3pt implements easilly outnumber the amount of available skidsteer atatchments.. There are easilly over 400 attatchments that were designed around the pre-cat 1 specs the ford N series had... add to that the other category specs...
That is the tractor nitch.. general purpose utility... and they are good at it. They do fall behgind is specific areas where specialized machinery takes first place...
As for capacity.. that is a non issue... front/engine mounted stinger pumps are cheap, and easy to install.. as are pto powered pumps... A good 3X-4X hp tractor can turn out quite a large hyd psi/flow rate on either ( or both ) types of pumps and still have hp left over to work..
Again.. not knocking the skidsteer. It nudges the tractor over to 2nd place for many specialized tasks, and while the skidsteer is really getting into the utility area.. I feel the tractor has the upper hand at general utility. I just don't see to many farmers bushhogging their pastures with skid steers and front rotary mowers... A mid size tractor is probably going to have better ground clearance and perform better in a boggy environment.. there are exceptions to everything though. The track kits really kick up skidsteer traction.. But then.. track kits for tractors doo to!
Soundguy
I think you will find that 3pt implements easilly outnumber the amount of available skidsteer atatchments.. There are easilly over 400 attatchments that were designed around the pre-cat 1 specs the ford N series had... add to that the other category specs...
That is the tractor nitch.. general purpose utility... and they are good at it. They do fall behgind is specific areas where specialized machinery takes first place...
As for capacity.. that is a non issue... front/engine mounted stinger pumps are cheap, and easy to install.. as are pto powered pumps... A good 3X-4X hp tractor can turn out quite a large hyd psi/flow rate on either ( or both ) types of pumps and still have hp left over to work..
Again.. not knocking the skidsteer. It nudges the tractor over to 2nd place for many specialized tasks, and while the skidsteer is really getting into the utility area.. I feel the tractor has the upper hand at general utility. I just don't see to many farmers bushhogging their pastures with skid steers and front rotary mowers... A mid size tractor is probably going to have better ground clearance and perform better in a boggy environment.. there are exceptions to everything though. The track kits really kick up skidsteer traction.. But then.. track kits for tractors doo to!
Soundguy
cedarman
Bronze Member
Owning both would be best of all worlds. I've got many hours on each. It really depends on the type of work you will be doing the majority of the time. If you are in the builder/contractor/landscaper world then a skid steer is the most productive for daily needs on the job. However, if you are talking about all around needs of a land owner then it's a tractor/loader/mower setup and rent a skid loader when specific needs come up. The skid loader definately tears up the yard no matter how careful you try to be and anyone who has ever put a bush hog on the front of one of them knows that is a once in a lifetime bad experience.
CRJCaptain
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yooperdave
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That is not toooo diferent than a power trac
Yooper Dave
Yooper Dave
gray
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OK, so now I have experience with this issue.
I offered to do some yard and field work for my brother in law this week and could only get my hands on a NH 170 skid steer to do it. I used forks to move old timbers and metal to a burn and bury pile. I used the loader bucket to cut out some small sapplings and load debris into piles. I also power raked about 20000 sf of old lawn. I tried to dig a hole to bury the burn ash, but the unit would not handle the Wisconsin heavy soil. When trying to move around in the field, any damp spot meant risk of getting the low clearance unit stuck. A yard turn was not possible unless I wanted to run a hand rake for each one later. Get the idea? I sure did. After 8 hours of this, I had to call around and get an L48 tractor to use. What a relief. No worry of getting stuck. Loader digging even in the heavy soil was no problem. The back hoe worked great.
To sum it up: skid steer-- excellent vission and tight motion.
Nothing else about it beat the L48. Nothing!
I was tired, dirty, deaf, and felt unsafeon the SS.
The tractor: Strong, safer, cleaner, quieter, and I was not wor
out after hours of use. It dug better, handled moving through soft soil
without a problem and did not tear up the yard.
In the field or yard , a tractor is a better choice!!!!
On hard surfaces and some construction, a skid steer may win out?
The newer- track loader skid steers offer many advantages over the wheeled units but you may still suffer from safety issues and look out for the dirt.
When I got off that skid steer, I set my mind to posting a message. Done?
I offered to do some yard and field work for my brother in law this week and could only get my hands on a NH 170 skid steer to do it. I used forks to move old timbers and metal to a burn and bury pile. I used the loader bucket to cut out some small sapplings and load debris into piles. I also power raked about 20000 sf of old lawn. I tried to dig a hole to bury the burn ash, but the unit would not handle the Wisconsin heavy soil. When trying to move around in the field, any damp spot meant risk of getting the low clearance unit stuck. A yard turn was not possible unless I wanted to run a hand rake for each one later. Get the idea? I sure did. After 8 hours of this, I had to call around and get an L48 tractor to use. What a relief. No worry of getting stuck. Loader digging even in the heavy soil was no problem. The back hoe worked great.
To sum it up: skid steer-- excellent vission and tight motion.
Nothing else about it beat the L48. Nothing!
I was tired, dirty, deaf, and felt unsafeon the SS.
The tractor: Strong, safer, cleaner, quieter, and I was not wor
out after hours of use. It dug better, handled moving through soft soil
without a problem and did not tear up the yard.
In the field or yard , a tractor is a better choice!!!!
On hard surfaces and some construction, a skid steer may win out?
The newer- track loader skid steers offer many advantages over the wheeled units but you may still suffer from safety issues and look out for the dirt.
When I got off that skid steer, I set my mind to posting a message. Done?
RobertN
Super Member
Not sure what safety issues the newer track loaders might have. I have used a small ans a large one(30hp, 48", 3000lbs and 50hp, 60" 6000lbs machines). They were very stable. They were very tractive in damp conditions, but did not tear things up like a regular skid steer.
And, some of the tracked units have suspension now. The ASV units have thier track system isolated from the main tractor unit bar a twin torsion bar suspension. Smoothest tractor I have ever used!
And, some of the tracked units have suspension now. The ASV units have thier track system isolated from the main tractor unit bar a twin torsion bar suspension. Smoothest tractor I have ever used!
gray
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RobertN.
I did mean that the track loader type may be much better than the wheeled type. I have not used the track type. They still may be less able to handle grades as well as most tractors? While loading on and off the trailer, the regular SS was at it's limits and more. The tractor did not even notice it. Also, while moving and dumping onto the trash pile the SS was on a slight angle and was not as safe.
Dirt? When using the power rake on the SS, I was lucky it was a bit damp or even my cloths would not have been washable. Don't pick up roots or you will have a mouth full. You can get an inclosed cab but you are already in a small spot for a big guy and more enclosure would have been less liked.
I just did not like the thing for yard or field work.
Gray.
I did mean that the track loader type may be much better than the wheeled type. I have not used the track type. They still may be less able to handle grades as well as most tractors? While loading on and off the trailer, the regular SS was at it's limits and more. The tractor did not even notice it. Also, while moving and dumping onto the trash pile the SS was on a slight angle and was not as safe.
Dirt? When using the power rake on the SS, I was lucky it was a bit damp or even my cloths would not have been washable. Don't pick up roots or you will have a mouth full. You can get an inclosed cab but you are already in a small spot for a big guy and more enclosure would have been less liked.
I just did not like the thing for yard or field work.
Gray.
SCDolphin
Gold Member
I just finished renting a Dae-Woo skid steer trying to level and work some land I own. Never again! It will take a week to get my hearing back, and several weeks to get my fillings fixed. That was the roughest most jolting I have had to endure in a long time.....get me back on a tractor!
Gatorboy
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</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I just finished renting a Dae-Woo skid steer trying to level and work some land I own. Never again! It will take a week to get my hearing back, and several weeks to get my fillings fixed. That was the roughest most jolting I have had to endure in a long time.....get me back on a tractor! )</font>
Why didn't you use your tractor to do this work -- was it because the skidsteer could do what your tractor couldn't?
Because my tractor is twice as loud as my skidsteer (no cab vs. cab), I usually always wear earplugs when running either machine. But if you expected a luxury ride -- that will never happen on a skidsteer.
I would have to guess that Dae-Woo was a small machine with a very short wheelbase. That is a tough ride if you are not on smooth ground.
Why didn't you use your tractor to do this work -- was it because the skidsteer could do what your tractor couldn't?
Because my tractor is twice as loud as my skidsteer (no cab vs. cab), I usually always wear earplugs when running either machine. But if you expected a luxury ride -- that will never happen on a skidsteer.
I would have to guess that Dae-Woo was a small machine with a very short wheelbase. That is a tough ride if you are not on smooth ground.
