Tractor tipping - how easy?

[Hermio]

The math for this is not difficult. The maximum static angle is equal to 90 degrees -arctan(2* cg/width), where cg is the height above ground of the center of gravity, and width is the distance between contact lines of the tires. For example, if the contact width is 72" and the cg is 48" high (fairly high for most tractors of such a width), the static tipover angle is 36.86 degrees. Trust me, I will never traverse a slope at such an angle! Of course, dynamic conditions are different. For example, if the tractor slides sideways on a slope and hits a rock, rut or tree stump, the inertia may cause a tipover at far less than the static angle. I do not feel comfortable beyond 20 degrees.

 

[vtsnowedin]

Wider is better. Run the math formula above with your wheels set as narrow as possible and then again with them set wide. This is mine set wide with beet juice in the tires. Wouldn't go int the woods with it any other way.

 

[Hermio]

I have the Rimguard in my tires, too. 1300# of it, in fact. But I still don't know the CG. However, I found that the difference between the factory default setting, versus the maximum, which is 3.6" wider, only made 1/2 to 1 degree difference, depending on what assumption you use for CG. I am toying with the idea of adding spacers. Setting the wheels to the max puts the valve stems on the inside, which is inconvenient and also exposes them to branches kicked up by the tires and trapped in the wheel well. (A beef of mine: it seems that all tractors run the wiring for the rear lights up the inside of the wheel fenders. They should be run on top to protect the wiring.)

 

[vtsnowedin]

I have the Rimguard in my tires, too. 1300# of it, in fact. But I still don't know the CG. However, I found that the difference between the factory default setting, versus the maximum, which is 3.6" wider, only made 1/2 to 1 degree difference, depending on what assumption you use for CG. I am toying with the idea of adding spacers. Setting the wheels to the max puts the valve stems on the inside, which is inconvenient and also exposes them to branches kicked up by the tires and trapped in the wheel well. (A beef of mine: it seems that all tractors run the wiring for the rear lights up the inside of the wheel fenders. They should be run on top to protect the wiring.)

The center of gravity in most tractors is between your feet at the top of the transmission casting. Fluid in the tires drops it a couple of inches and a loader and it's frame raises it a few inches and moves it ahead about a foot.
The valve stems are just as likely to get in trouble with an errant stick pointing inside as they are pointing outside. I don't have any lights mounted on the fenders and wouldn't want wires anywhere near where the winter ice chains are running.
My JD has eight position rims which give you about two feet of difference between narrowest and widest plus I added 4.1 inch factory spacers each side so If I added any more it would need a wide load permit to be hauled down the road.
Doing the math in a static situation I could be on a one to one slope (45 degrees) and still not tip over sideways.
Not going to test it though as I'm too old for crushed bones to heal quickly.

 

[Hermio]

Amen to that, although on my Mahindra, my feet are above the transmission completely. My experience is that errant sticks are far more likely to do damage to a valve stem on the inside of the wheel well than outside, as they cannot fall away; they often wrap up around the axle. I am not so sure the loader changes the height of the CG much. The sub-frame is almost as heavy as the lift arms, and if the bucket is down low, it may serve to lower the cg somewhat, especially if it is a very heavy 4-way bucket, which mine is. (600# heavier than OEM). I have thought about spacers, but I do some logging, and putting the wheels too far out increases axle stress. The Mahindra axles look beefy, but everything has a limit. And the stresses in farm equipment axles are already very high when pulling in low gear.

 

[vtsnowedin]

Amen to that, although on my Mahindra, my feet are above the transmission completely. My experience is that errant sticks are far more likely to do damage to a valve stem on the inside of the wheel well than outside, as they cannot fall away; they often wrap up around the axle. I am not so sure the loader changes the height of the CG much. The sub-frame is almost as heavy as the lift arms, and if the bucket is down low, it may serve to lower the cg somewhat, especially if it is a very heavy 4-way bucket, which mine is. (600# heavier than OEM). I have thought about spacers, but I do some logging, and putting the wheels too far out increases axle stress. The Mahindra axles look beefy, but everything has a limit. And the stresses in farm equipment axles are already very high when pulling in low gear.

It would vary of course with every make and model but most of them have a attachment point that is in front of the operators feet with some heavy duty bracing under and around the tractors core frame. From there the arms and pistons rise up and go forward higher then the center of gravity of the bare tractor cancelling out the weight of the attachment frame then down to the weight of the bucket which is position dependent but always forward of the tractors bare COG. But you are right hat if held low the loader can lower the COG especially if there is a load in the bucket. But driving around empty with the bucket say a foot off the ground I think in most cases it is a few inches higher then a bare tractor.
I bought the factory spacers figuring that they had done the math and knew what they were warranting. So far so good.

 

[jwmsjwms]

in reading about tipping accidents, it is surprising how many happen on simple slopes that you would not even consider as being a problem and would most likely not even look at at the tilt-meter. ROPS AND SEATBELT!!!!
have a friend that regularly gets tire/tires off the ground and has no protection on his Bota. DUMB GUY, DUMB GUY, DUMB GUY!!!! Was helping him last weekend lifting a log and had to get him to stop so I could cut the thing up into smaller pieces. will be the death of him one of these days. (Maybe I can get him to put the tractor in his will to me!!!!)

 

[czechsonofagun]

Tractor tipping

(cars) tractor tippin (long) - YouTube

 

[Snowback]

Tractor tipping

(cars) tractor tippin (long) - YouTube

Not what I expected, but pretty funny!

My advice to Jay4200 is to be careful on side hills, (Preferably up and down rather than across if they are steep), no sharp turns at speed on hard pack or paved/concrete roads, and always watch out for unexpected rotten tump wells or ruts/holes. It can be easy it is to tip a tractor if one is not careful.

ROPs and seatbelt worked here. Notice how that front axle pivot is inherently unstable with lateral forces and uneven terrain.

If one operates responsibly there is little risk of tipping, but if you make a sharp turn in medium range and tap the left rear brake to make a slightly sharper turn, then you can end up on three wheels for a brief moment. That may or may not have happened to me after the 4th of July Parade in our neighborhood on Monday...

 

[Hermio]

Yes, I have seen that video before. The hill did not look that steep, but the rut was enough to tip it over. Sobering.

 

[ArmyPair2]

Before working on my slopes or hills I walk the area as it changes over the past years. One year a huge stump can be there and the next a huge hole in the ground from decay then I red flag it .I also take a phone and two way radio with me and it only takes a fraction of a second to be up on three tires and ready to tip.

 

[bellweather]

Thanks for sharing the video. Yes, sobering and a good reminder of how easily things can go wrong. Brings to mind that saying about pilots - 'there are old pilots and bold pilots but no old bold pilots'.

 

[JWR]

Yes, I have seen that video before. The hill did not look that steep, but the rut was enough to tip it over. Sobering.

That video is from the PA state Farm Progress show held south of State College every August. They operate the blue tractor by a remote control and purposely hit a hole on the low side which is just enough to tumble the tractor. It is impressive and should cause every one to watch for holes and low spots on the lower side when they are operating on steep ground. It is also a pitch for wearing seatbelts to keep the operator within the protection zone of the ROPS. I do not and will not wear a seatbelt operating a tractor. I depend on staying out of spots where it would happen. Sure, I know, I know -- you cannot always predict. I have friends who were killed bush hogging and just got into surprises that upset the tractor on them.

 

[czechsonofagun]

I am guilty too, never wear seat belt, my land is flat, but still

Maybe I will start.

 

[aczlan]

That video is from the PA state Farm Progress show held south of State College every August. They operate the blue tractor by a remote control and purposely hit a hole on the low side which is just enough to tumble the tractor. It is impressive and should cause every one to watch for holes and low spots on the lower side when they are operating on steep ground. It is also a pitch for wearing seatbelts to keep the operator within the protection zone of the ROPS. I do not and will not wear a seatbelt operating a tractor. I depend on staying out of spots where it would happen. Sure, I know, I know -- you cannot always predict. I have friends who were killed bush hogging and just got into surprises that upset the tractor on them.

Between bumps and possibly getting bumped to where I could fall off, I try to always wear a seatbelt.
When I was a teenager, the next door neighbor tried to remove a railroad tie retaining wall with a rented skidsteer by lifting from one end and shaking it until it fell apart.
It was too heavy and it flipped the skidsteer forward on its nose. He wasn't wearing a belt and was thrown into the lap bar (which kept him in the cab), however he couldn't get the bucket to lower and get it back on its feet because some of the controls were on the foot pedals.
I was able to get in, buckle up, cinch the belt up so I was hanging from the belt. That let me run the foot pedals (as I didn't have to stand on them) and I was able to work both the hand and foot controls in together to get it back on its wheels.
He then had me take the wall apart for him with the skidsteer.

Aaron Z

 

[Jay4200]

Not what I expected, but pretty funny!

My advice to Jay4200 is to be careful on side hills, (Preferably up and down rather than across if they are steep), no sharp turns at speed on hard pack or paved/concrete roads, and always watch out for unexpected rotten tump wells or ruts/holes. It can be easy it is to tip a tractor if one is not careful.

JFTR, I wrote the original post 11 years and ~800ish hours ago. Tractor is incredibly stable with my backhoe attached - it's carried on a subframe and weighs about 2000 pounds. I ran the tractor/backhoe together for 6 years before taking the 'hoe off for the first time - which was the one time that I was really close to tipping over. Right after I took the backhoe off, I drove down a hill with a bucket full of loam - back end lifted and everything got really hairy - somehow I have the wherewithall to shove the lever and drop the bucket onto the ground. Required a shorts changing. I did tip the tractor over onto the side of a camping trailer once while using my backhoe, but that didn't count - my Woods 9000 throws that L4200 around like so much tissue paper.

I still have and constantly use my L4200, which I love, and I also have a BX2200 - I wouldn't wish a BX on my worst enemy - complete POS.

 

[JFoy]

Well Jay, if you're hate the BX so much, I'll swing by and remove it for you - free of charge!

 

[JWR]

Jay2000 -- Astounding this post has rattled around in the innards of TBN for 11 years ! I never noticed that when I first commented. Obviously you started a good discussion.

 

[Jay4200]

Well Jay, if you're hate the BX so much, I'll swing by and remove it for you - free of charge!

Deal, as long as you leave a B in it's place.

 

[montelatici]

I recently tipped one of my "tractors". A little Troybilt riding mower that I mainly use in the pool area. I think I was the problem, I have gotten too fat and the center of gravity on the little thing was me. The BXs and the L 3700 never come close to tipping over. Luckily I live in the country and nobody saw me (and my wife is on vacation with my daughter) but seeing a fat 65 year old flipping a tiny Troybilt riding mower would have been hilarious.