Tractor models for small-scale rocky diggign?

[ps118]

Hello all,

I'm a long-time lurker around here but now I signed up because I've got a question. I'm pretty much a noob to the country and now looking for my first tractor.

Anyway, being in the Rocky Mountains, what I've got is rocks and slopes. Stands to reason. What I want to do is terrace it out and make it into grow beds. I don't want anything too huge, but at the same time I'd need something that could still handle the job, both in terms of being able to dig rocky ground, and being able to traverse slopes as safely as possible.

Beyond that, I don't know what I'd need in terms of hp or anything else. I thought I'd open that up for opinions... what I should be looking for/avoiding... models... etc...

Thoughts?

 

[Sysop]

As a fellow mountain man, I'd say your first and primary thing to look at is weight. Weight equals traction. Weight down low equals stability. Horsepower is what does the tasks you need to do, but weight is what lets you plant the power efficiently. I'd say you'll want the heaviest tractor in whatever class of tractors you are looking at, and will want added weight such as liquid filled rear tires, weights, etc., widen the stance as much as your rims allow. Perhaps if your hills and slopes are very steep you'll want dual tires on it, but that is only an option on big tractors.

How much land are you on and what would you call your "most feared" slope? Pics may help.

 

[XSKIER]

The tasks listed sounds like you need a compact track loader.

 

[Gary Fowler]

Sound more like you need a track excavator with a rock drill on it and a few tons of AMFO to blast out your rocks then remove them with another excavator. Small CUT Tractors don't work rocks very well and neither to large Utility tractors.

 

[magicheater]

What else are you going to use the machine for? Wide and low is good but having the right attachment on the loader can make all the difference in the world. Any chance you could post some pics so the TBN community can offer some real insight? Thank you.

 

[Gary Fowler]

I own both small (KubotaB26 TLB ) and large (LS P7010) and I can tell you that no tractor with a FEL will like to dig in rocks or rocky soil. I have tons of rocks in my land and the larger ones are haphazardly scattered. Hitting a small rock (basketball sized and even soccer ball sized) when digging with the FEL in soft dirt will stop my 70HP tractor dead in its tracks. Rocks are really hard to dig out with an FEL which is why I have my B26 back hoe and even with the hoe and rock teeth on it, it is sometimes hard to dig in rocks. I have shale all over my place at varying depths from almost surface to 4 feet or more below and when I hit that, I have to stop digging as it is too hard on the equipment to dig thru even though I can shatter it with effort to remove some of the shale for road beds, the deeper I dig the harder it gets.
That is why I said get an excavator and /or rock drill and blast it out if it is rock, not even 100 ton excavator can dig in solid rock.

 

[jeff9366]

Backing up Gary Fowler:

I have a Kubota B3300SU tractor/loader package: 33-hp/1,900 pounds/4-WD. This weight/power is TOO SMALL for your needs.

If you decide on tractor route you probably want to look at TLB (Tractor/Loader/Backhoe) with 50 horsepower or more, Construction Grade.

Construction Grade backhoes are much more robust and have higher capacities than compact tractor backhoes......unfortunately more money too.

 

[ps118]

What else are you going to use the machine for? Wide and low is good but having the right attachment on the loader can make all the difference in the world. Any chance you could post some pics so the TBN community can offer some real insight? Thank you.

Sure. Here's a representative pic of the hills I'm trying to fix up.


(Turkeys decided to pose for me at the top. Ok fine, I'll take your picture, you vain birds you! )

 

[dkizerian]

Is this mostly the 3-6" rocks typical of the Utah foothills? An FEL "could" be used to do this, but a backhoe or mini excavator would be the better tool.

Maybe renting something would be the better option? Even renting for a month or two would be be a less expensive way to get a good sized machine to really do what you're trying to do.

 

[Piston]

I've never used a rock bucket, but it may be something you want to look into as an option? Although I imagine it's still not good for digging, rather, picking up loose rocks and leaving soil behind. A tractor really isn't the right tool for hard rock digging.

 

[dragoneggs]

:welcome: from Washington State. I am probably not the best to be advising you but... Looking at your picture, it looks like you are in the same situation I am. I have about one cleared acre on a hill. Lot of rocks like you (maybe not as many) and a serious slope. I am putting in retaining walls and using my BX25D. This little machine is awesome! You may want bigger as I don't know how many acres you plan to deal with but after it is done, I wouldn't want too big a beast hanging around to do the maintenance. You could have someone come out with an excavator for a day or two and rough in your steps. I thought of that but I didn't know exactly what I wanted so I am doing it slowly myself. It is a heck of a lot of fun!

The combination of FEL and a 12in backhoe with thumb can do more than you would ever expect, it's low to the ground but still great ground clearance, and can get in tight spaces. Don't let the size fool you. I added a piranha tooth bar and hooks to the FEL from BXpanded, and skid plates and wheel spacers from BroTek. Highly recommend all. Here are a few pics of my big project to date. ONE THING I MUST SAY... be careful! It is easy to roll a tractor on slopes. Most of my slope is about 25 degrees sometimes more so terracing the hill is a must so I can better maintain it.

This is my first tractor and it is a learning experience. Go slowwwww!



If you are interesting in retaining walls, you can also view my thread:
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/projects/285396-my-first-many-retaining-walls.html

 

[jeff9366]

dragoneggs:

Inspiring pictures.

Almost wish I had similar slopes.

 

[Gary Fowler]

I would be very, very careful trying to put a tractor on those slopes. I know you want to do this yourself, but the best tool for that is an excavator. You could rent a mini-ex but if you have not experience it would be best to hire a professional that can keep the cuts straight and level. They can do a lot of terracing on those slopes and do it safely in a few days and even put in a switch back road for you to drive up and down safely with mower or TRACTOR at the time when you start putting in the terrace walls.

 

[dragoneggs]

I would be very, very careful trying to put a tractor on those slopes. I know you want to do this yourself, but the best tool for that is an excavator. You could rent a mini-ex but if you have not experience it would be best to hire a professional that can keep the cuts straight and level. They can do a lot of terracing on those slopes and do it safely in a few days and even put in a switch back road for you to drive up and down safely with mower or TRACTOR at the time when you start putting in the terrace walls.

I definitely second that!!! When the excavator cleared my slope he leveled out an area at the bottom and did cut in a diagonal path and switch back for me to get down the hill. The biggest problem is just getting a start on creating a flat area on the slope. It takes some BH work to create a little flat pad to start digging with your FEL.

There have been some dicey situations even though I am going as slow as possible and keeping the bucket low. Especially on loose dirt that hasn't compacted enough yet. I know now exactly what 'pucker factor' is all about and I don't like the feeling.

 

[dragoneggs]

dragoneggs:

Inspiring pictures.

Almost wish I had similar slopes.

Thank you Jeff. 'Almost' is the operative word. I wish the slopes were just a little less but because of them, I have the most incredible views.

 

[Scooby074]

Your soil doesnt look that hard to dig, mostly smaller rock if Im right. Under 6".

Also looks like there is a much shallower "road" in the foreground that could be used to give you access to the bottom, then you can work up, one terrace at a time, cutting the slope back from a safe spot. The distant slopes are far too steep to work on as they are with a tractor IMHO, but once you start terracing it wouldnt be an issue.

Whats your timeline? Can you work on this full time? A BX could handle it, but it will take alot of time. If you have a bit of acerage, a B21 or B26 would be a better choice that not only is stronger, but would do the job quicker, and be a better tractor for future uses.

Ideally though, its hard to beat an excavator at jobs like this. An ex with a bobcat would be my ideal choice. A dozer would also be good, but that isnt something easy to rent or transport for a homeowner.

 

[ps118]

Yep there is access at the top and bottom.
So, I'm not sure... those of you that recommended a track excavator, was it because of the terrain or the digging ability that you were recommending that?

Also, yeah, I'd say the rocks are around course gravel to about 6" like you say maybe a few bigger ones hiding, but about like that.

Just persuzing the paper (trying to get a frame of reference) I see an old International Harvester model 3514 for $4k with 18 inch hoe on back. 58hp diesel, but only a 2wd. I don't know how necessary 4wd is? Also, does that sound like about the right size of unit? (Sorry if these questions sound dumb. I really am a noob, here.)

 

[dave1949]

There are no dumb questions here on TBN.

It takes an enormous amount of material to build a terrace of any size. For example, if you wanted to extend the flat area off your deck in the picture, that will take a lot of material to go out any distance. A tractor just doesn't move material very quickly due to the size of buckets used.

If you want the terraces to be wide enough to be really useful, you are talking many many yards of material. You can get an idea by using the area of a triangle times the length of the terrace divided by 27 to get cubic yards.

I don't see anything there I wouldn't try to dig with my CUT, but it will take awhile. And, more importantly, you need a terrace plan or design that minimizes the material to be moved.

Otherwise, have it roughed in by a dozer or excavator. But the first question they will ask is, "how do you want this done?" Plan.

 

[dragoneggs]

From the looks of your land... I would say a 4WD is a must! I know I would have gotten myself stuck or slid down my slopes several times without it. Being able to lock the differential when you start slipping with a quick click of my heel (foot pedal) on my BX is a godsend.