Tracked Skid Steer shopping ... your input please

[turbo36]

Examples please?

sorry for the delay; fell off the edge of the earth for a few days! :laughing:

Just so you know, I have a Toolcat and Bobcat excavator so my comments may be biased.

My recent experience with Bobcat is t770 with the standard suspension, it is a real workhorse with all the creature comforts. The T190 is a great machine but being a generation behind is is a bit crude when comparing it to the current model. The ride on the standard suspension is rougher than the roller but very typical of other machines ( except for ASV and early Cat models that have the ASV licensed suspension). The roller suspension is better if you are moving a lot of dirt over long distances, the standard suspension is better for holding a grade. The ASV suspension is very expansion to rebuild.

Around here the heavy excavation Companies use Cats, they are reasonably reliable and parts and service very available.

The landscapers are mostly Bobcat, my experience is the reliability may be a touch under Cat but the local dealer is very good with service and loaners.


The cement Guys run Takaguchi, my option is that it is a very crude machine but the initial price is good and the reliability above average. Hard to kill.

I operate on the principal that I am only making money when my stuff it working so pick an acceptable reliable machine with an outstanding service dealer.

That why I drive Porsche and not Ferrari You milage may differ.

 

[TSO]

sorry for the delay; fell off the edge of the earth for a few days! :laughing:

Just so you know, I have a Toolcat and Bobcat excavator so my comments may be biased.

My recent experience with Bobcat is t770 with the standard suspension, it is a real workhorse with all the creature comforts. The T190 is a great machine but being a generation behind is is a bit crude when comparing it to the current model. The ride on the standard suspension is rougher than the roller but very typical of other machines ( except for ASV and early Cat models that have the ASV licensed suspension). The roller suspension is better if you are moving a lot of dirt over long distances, the standard suspension is better for holding a grade. The ASV suspension is very expansion to rebuild.

Around here the heavy excavation Companies use Cats, they are reasonably reliable and parts and service very available.

The landscapers are mostly Bobcat, my experience is the reliability may be a touch under Cat but the local dealer is very good with service and loaners.

The cement Guys run Takaguchi, my option is that it is a very crude machine but the initial price is good and the reliability above average. Hard to kill.

I operate on the principal that I am only making money when my stuff it working so pick an acceptable reliable machine with an outstanding service dealer.

That why I drive Porsche and not Ferrari You milage may differ.

Thanks for the info

 

[RDrancher]

I'll give you my .02. I won't include experience with ASV/Terex or the shared Cat designs snce I don't have any. But, hearing the stories from a couple rental guys I know...I wouldn't consider them. My Case is a real comfortable, strong machine to run, but I wouldn't buy one again. That goes for the similar NH units as well, even though I have a great relationship with my NH dealer. Besides the swing-out door that drives me nuts and fragile Bonfiglioli (sp) final drives (shared by some Cat and Deere machines), I'm not a fan of electric over hydraulic controls. The micro second delay in tight conditions is a pain and a nightmare of electric trinkets inside the joysticks. The undercarriage design on Case/NH, Bobcat, Volvo/JCB is a real magnet for packing mud and material around the final drives. I do have to say that I think the single arm design and cab of the Volvo/JCB is pretty cool though. I saw a video showing the side-to-side swing on the loader arm, but you can do that with any standard two arm unit after they're broken in a bit. I wouldn't be concerned with that at all.

As far as radial vs. vertical lift, both have their advantages and drawbacks. The verticals can lift more, but the trade-off is flex in the extra linkages that can add to arm deflection when grading. Speaking of grading, they both feel pretty much the same in that respect to me. Radial lifts do feel more stable when dumping on a steep uphill slopes. I'd call it a toss up and lean more toward the vertical lift for the added lift capacity and reach when loading dump trucks. And that's coming from a guy that grades 90% of the time with a radial lift machine.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, there are only two machines I'll consider at this point...Kubota and Takeuchi. Both have fully welded undercarriages (not bolted on skid steer modded frames) , straight pilot controls and flip-up doors. Both are more simple designs than the rest and lack the car-like creature comforts, but that's part of the appeal and what makes them tough machines. Kubota's have more lift capacity / reach and Tak's seem to push a little better but ride a little rougher. I'd give the nod to Kubota for the easiest to clean undercarriage. Tak's does have better A/C flow. Kubota's will improve when the new SVL95 comes out with A/C vents on both sides.

If you're looking used and the door thing doesn't bother you, the Gehl and Mustang Tak clones can be a real bargain.

 

[TSO]

I'll give you my .02. I won't include experience with ASV/Terex or the shared Cat designs snce I don't have any. But, hearing the stories from a couple rental guys I know...I wouldn't consider them. My Case is a real comfortable, strong machine to run, but I wouldn't buy one again. That goes for the similar NH units as well, even though I have a great relationship with my NH dealer. Besides the swing-out door that drives me nuts and fragile Bonfiglioli (sp) final drives (shared by some Cat and Deere machines), I'm not a fan of electric over hydraulic controls. The micro second delay in tight conditions is a pain and a nightmare of electric trinkets inside the joysticks. The undercarriage design on Case/NH, Bobcat, Volvo/JCB is a real magnet for packing mud and material around the final drives. I do have to say that I think the single arm design and cab of the Volvo/JCB is pretty cool though. I saw a video showing the side-to-side swing on the loader arm, but you can do that with any standard two arm unit after they're broken in a bit. I wouldn't be concerned with that at all.

As far as radial vs. vertical lift, both have their advantages and drawbacks. The verticals can lift more, but the trade-off is flex in the extra linkages that can add to arm deflection when grading. Speaking of grading, they both feel pretty much the same in that respect to me. Radial lifts do feel more stable when dumping on a steep uphill slopes. I'd call it a toss up and lean more toward the vertical lift for the added lift capacity and reach when loading dump trucks. And that's coming from a guy that grades 90% of the time with a radial lift machine.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, there are only two machines I'll consider at this point...Kubota and Takeuchi. Both have fully welded undercarriages (not bolted on skid steer modded frames) , straight pilot controls and flip-up doors. Both are more simple designs than the rest and lack the car-like creature comforts, but that's part of the appeal and what makes them tough machines. Kubota's have more lift capacity / reach and Tak's seem to push a little better but ride a little rougher. I'd give the nod to Kubota for the easiest to clean undercarriage. Tak's does have better A/C flow. Kubota's will improve when the new SVL95 comes out with A/C vents on both sides.

If you're looking used and the door thing doesn't bother you, the Gehl and Mustang Tak clones can be a real bargain.

Thanks, great post! So whose factory actually makes them... Takeuchi or Gehl?

I stopped by my local Alta Equip shop today (they have about 8 locations around greater Detroit) ... They sell Gehl, Takeuchi & Volvo. Unfortunately this particular location deals mostly with industrial lifts & factory machines (fork lifts and Tele-Handlers) so I will have to go to one of their other locations to check out their tracked SkidSteer options. They did have one Gehl rubber tired machine in the showroom amongst the fork lifts. I don't recall the model number, but I sat in it and everything felt nice. I likely won't be able to get to the other location until the middle of next week to look at their units as I am booked up until then. I do like that this company offers mobile service all around the area , so at least I would feel confident in knowing I would have service available on any of my jobs.

I will say that one major advantage of the Takeuchi units would be the paint colors . Nearly a perfect match for my Massey !

 

[Green Power]

Takeuchi

 

[RDrancher]

GP is correct. Tak made the Gehl and Mustang machines.

I noticed that you mentioned "cab with heat" in your original post. I'd get A/C as well. Even when it's in the mid 60's and 70's, it can get uncomfortably warm in an enclosed cab with hyd. pumps and the engine so close to the operator. The cabs are much smaller than those on a tractor and the fan draws air closer to all of that heat. You can run with the side windows open, but your closer to the bucket with dust generated from it and the tracks.

 

[TSO]

GP is correct. Tak made the Gehl and Mustang machines.

I noticed that you mentioned "cab with heat" in your original post. I'd get A/C as well. Even when it's in the mid 60's and 70's, it can get uncomfortably warm in an enclosed cab with hyd. pumps and the engine so close to the operator. The cabs are much smaller than those on a tractor and the fan draws air closer to all of that heat. You can run with the side windows open, but your closer to the bucket with dust generated from it and the tracks.

Good point

 

[Rustyiron]

Tak made Gehl (tracked machines) up until a year or so back.
FWIW I have Gehl's biggest wheeled machine…. to load over the side of tri axle's with high side boards. Something like an 11'10" "pin" height. The long 55" wheelbase would be especially hard on landscaped surface. (grass)

 

[Ken45101]

I've looked into those... I've read that they can cause driveline stress as dirt and debris builds up and "tightens" then on the tires.

I have a Deere 325 with OTT and have not seen a problem like that although I do not keep the tracks super tight. OTT will give you much better traction in mud than rubber tracks. You can get very aggressive OTT steel tracks but you probably wouldn't want them in the landscaping business.

Besides the difference in initial price ($15-25k?), ongoing maintenance is significantly higher, most people say to expect $10/hr higher maintenance on a rubber tracked machine.

If buying used, most rubber tracked machines will need major undercarriage work ($10-15k?) at the 2-3000 hour range.

However, with their longer wheelbase, they are more stable and do a better job grading.

 

[RDrancher]

I think OTT's are a great idea, but they do slightly raise the bottom of the bucket, which can be a problem when fine grading. I bought a older, used Bobcat tooth bucket that was obviously not designed for a CTL and having to operated with the cutting edge lower than the heel makes for a very frustrating day. Even on my Case with the smallest arm stop pucks, I didn't find the heel low enough. They're worn down now and make fine grading easier. One of the guys over at HEF had a great idea to weld a cutting edge to the bottom of the heel. Says it works awesome for back blading. The mod would also give the "feeling" that the bucket sat flat if the heel was a tad high.

Another thing to remember is that Tak and the clones did (and may still) use a different quick attach height. That's important when checking out additional buckets.