Towing 10,000lbs with 1/2 ton, or upgrade?

[Duffster]

Diamondpilot, let me ask this: If a memeber of your family was involved in an accident {serious injury or death}with a setup like this what would you do?

I did own a dodge 1500 with a heavy duty tow package and trailer break. I used it to pull my compact tractor around {around 3600lbs +weight of trailer} it worked fairly well for that. Then I got a compact dozer weighs around 7000lbs + trailer in NO way was this a good setup. I would bet, if I had been in an accident there would have been lawyers knocking down the door. I drove tractor trailer for many years, so I do have a small understanding of loaded vehicles. Just because the power is there to move something does not mean the weight/size is there to stop it.

So this isn't safe either.

IMO the trailer should stop itself.

I just bought a w3500 and it has a sticker rating it at 14000 GVW on the driver side door opening

Yes the GVWR but not the GCWR.

 

[20 20]

Dmace; what happens if there is an accident with a setup like this? Are the truck dealers going to stand next to ya when your facing jail time? Are they going to step up and say this is a perfect setup when the courts come callin? Would a jury look at this setup and side with someone for hauling this much weight on a small vehicle?
I would bet the dealers would throw a bunch of red tape in and push there rates under the carpet. I'd bet they'd say sure the truck can handle that but so and so just didn't have the right blah blah blah. A jury would see a poor innocent victim and an over loaded vehicle.

It's your choice and like I said earlier can work, but just think about the road and safety/other people. This is not a safe setup unless maybe your only going to drive 15-20mph on the side of the road with hazards on.

 

[20 20]

Duffster; that setup is WAAAAY safer then what is being discussed. With that note I will say this, I had to pull doubles{2 48' trailers}. I never believed in doubles and tripples seen to many things go wrong. Companies are there to make money and if they can pay 1 guy to do the job of 2 or 3 then money does talk. So mabe because I'm getting older, or because I've seen to many stupid accidents{involving death and/or serious injury}, I worry to much.

 

[Dmace]

I stand 100% corrected. I know for a fact the 09 and earlier models were under 9,000#.

There you go again with your facts, the 2009 Ram 1500 had a max tow capacity of 9,100lbs.

 

[Diamondpilot]

Diamondpilot, let me ask this: If a memeber of your family was involved in an accident {serious injury or death}with a setup like this what would you do?

I did own a dodge 1500 with a heavy duty tow package and trailer break. I used it to pull my compact tractor around {around 3600lbs +weight of trailer} it worked fairly well for that. Then I got a compact dozer weighs around 7000lbs + trailer in NO way was this a good setup. I would bet, if I had been in an accident there would have been lawyers knocking down the door. I drove tractor trailer for many years, so I do have a small understanding of loaded vehicles. Just because the power is there to move something does not mean the weight/size is there to stop it.

Plain and simple if its at or below the max rating, no problems.

Chris

 

[Diamondpilot]

There you go again with your facts, the 2009 Ram 1500 had a max tow capacity of 9,100lbs.

My book shows a 2 WD long Bed at 8900# with the auto tranny and 3.92 gears.

Chris

 

[Dmace]

Dmace; what happens if there is an accident with a setup like this?...
...This is not a safe setup unless maybe your only going to drive 15-20mph on the side of the road with hazards on.

If there is an accident and you are overloaded, then yes you will be held liable for it. I did not say the manufacturers would stand behind you. I simply stated that the rated tow capacities are certainly not the absolute limit that the vehicle can handle. They can easily and safely handle 10-15% over the rated amounts in my opinion. To say that going 10% or less over the trucks rated capacity is "not a safe setup" is just wrong, again in my opinion. There is nothing "not safe" about it, if that 10% were enough to unsafely overload the vehicle then it is not properly rated.

Do you really think 8-900lbs is going to make that much difference?

My book shows a 2 WD long Bed at 8900# with the auto tranny and 3.92 gears. Chris

2009 Dodge Ram 1500 SLT 4x2 short bed 5.7l HEMI with 3.92 gears and 5-speed Auto is 9,100lbs. Long bed version is 9,000lbs.
Amazing how your "book" has all the elevated numbers for Ford trucks but severely underrates all the other manufacturers, I wonder who produces it...

 

[Raw Dodge]

As far as towings,I know as far as DOT law goes,they are just suggested,and never followed.One of my Dads friends towed a 53 ft 3 car hauler with 3 different 3500 Dodge Cummins duallys,the first one was a 1994,both it and the 99 he had had factory GCWR of only 16000 lbs,with 10500 GVWRs.He stopped at the scales,had DOT numbers,and hauled cars all along the east coast.His rig grossed out at 22000-30000 GCWR daily.All 3 of his trucks went 300000 miles easily on the original powertrains,the auto transmissions lasted 300K in the first 2.
So how can anyone hold them to the factory tow rating when its just there guideline.

 

[Diamondpilot]

If there is an accident and you are overloaded, then yes you will be held liable for it. I did not say the manufacturers would stand behind you. I simply stated that the rated tow capacities are certainly not the absolute limit that the vehicle can handle. They can easily and safely handle 10-15% over the rated amounts in my opinion. To say that going 10% or less over the trucks rated capacity is "not a safe setup" is just wrong, again in my opinion. There is nothing "not safe" about it, if that 10% were enough to unsafely overload the vehicle then it is not properly rated.

Do you really think 8-900lbs is going to make that much difference?


2009 Dodge Ram 1500 SLT 4x2 short bed 5.7l HEMI with 3.92 gears and 5-speed Auto is 9,100lbs. Long bed version is 9,000lbs.
Amazing how your "book" has all the elevated numbers for Ford trucks but severely underrates all the other manufacturers, I wonder who produces it...

Produced by a third party for the trailer dealer industry. What are we talking here a few hundred pounds? No further Comment.

Chris

 

[wkpoor]

I take little stock in the published #'s even from the mfg themselves. At least part of the ratings are market sales drivin. I seen the #'s change one yr to another without a single change to a vehicle just to stay up with the competition's claims.
Guy here at work had a 2yr old Nissan. He bought a new boat that weighed in at about 8K on the trailer. Well within the published towing #'s. He is now driving a new Ford 150 2 months after getting the boat. Apparently those #'s weren't quite up to shuf on the Nissan. He should have just gone for the 250 and been done with it.

 

[Big Bri]

i'v read this thread a couple of time and wasn't sure if i want to post but i think i am. I ordered a 2000 Ford F150, extra cab stepside, w the 4.6 and a 5 speed, 3.55 posi with a tow package. When the truck came in it had a towing capacity some where around 3200 lbs, i questioned the dealer about this because the auto had 6800 lbs rating. (i'm trying to remember it was a long time ago so these numbers might be wrong) and My brothers truck also a 2000 f150 with the v6 5 speed had a capacity that was 300 to 600 lbs more than mine I was told that ford did that to 1, because of warranty issues with the clutch and 2, to make people towing buy the f250. I don't know how much of any of that was true, or if he was just telling me what i wanted to here so i bought the truck.

all that being said i find it hard to beleave that that truck, the 2000 ford v8 five speed could only safely pull 3200lbs. I will say that almost every weekend for 4 years i pulled 6500 to 7500 lbs (race car in an 24ft enclosed trailer) to the race track 35 miles away. I have also pulled a tractor a few times with that truck as well as using it for a side line lawn business for a few years. i never had any trouble with that truck stopping, no problems with the drive train, to tell you the truth that was the best truck i owned. . . till it caught on fire because of the cruz controle (another story)

guess what i'm trying to say is that i think a lot of those numbers (tow capacitys) are not only for what the frame and breaks can handle but also for what the drive train can handle as well. That being said i also think that the manufactures post a tow number that will keep us from bring them our trucks for warranty work from towing heavy loads.
am i saying that it was right for me to tow twice what my truck capacity was. . .i don't see where i did anything wrong. and i don't see where it was unsafe for me to tow what i did.

 

[JasG]

As far as towings,I know as far as DOT law goes,they are just suggested,and never followed.One of my Dads friends towed a 53 ft 3 car hauler with 3 different 3500 Dodge Cummins duallys,the first one was a 1994,both it and the 99 he had had factory GCWR of only 16000 lbs,with 10500 GVWRs.He stopped at the scales,had DOT numbers,and hauled cars all along the east coast.His rig grossed out at 22000-30000 GCWR daily.All 3 of his trucks went 300000 miles easily on the original powertrains,the auto transmissions lasted 300K in the first 2.
So how can anyone hold them to the factory tow rating when its just there guideline.

I can tell you this is not the case everywhere. It seems to be each state enforces the laws different. Here in NY if you go over the GVW or the GCVW you will get a ticket if stopped at a check station. Now my brother drives a log truck in NC and they never check the limits on the truck, just what it is registered for. Here I have seen them not only check that, but also the axle loads, tire loads, etc. My father drove lowbed for 35 years, towards the end the stops were really getting to be a pain. It wasn't the case here 15 years ago, but it is now. The fines have also increased. 20 years ago I think it was $50.00 and the ticket was good for a week for overload. I rermember a friend of mine telling me that the troopers every monday would be waiting outside the quarry he was driving from and give them a ticket. But the fine wasn't enough to be a deterant. Now the fines are much larger. A landscaper I know was telling me not that long ago they are really cracking down even on tow rig like his, F350. He was legal on all his weights, but not on his tie downs.
Some states, I think Cal is one, you need a CDL if you pull a trailer rated for over 10000 lbs.
Like I said I know some states enforcment is a joke, guys hauling 5, 6 even 10000 lbs over the rating of the truck. To me thats just plain dumb.

 

[20 20]

I take little stock in the published #'s even from the mfg themselves. At least part of the ratings are market sales drivin. I seen the #'s change one yr to another without a single change to a vehicle just to stay up with the competition's claims.

how true

 

[20 20]

JasG; Also when we register in this state we register for a certain weight. Most folks will register for the lowest weight possible for a vehicle. If something does happen and they're weight is higher, then they're in trouble. Example: truck alone weighs 5000lbs NY resident might register it for 6500lbs truck and total load. Even if the truck could be registered for an extra 4000lbs{total of 9000LBS} if it's not and you get caught BAM!!!

 

[Diamondpilot]

I take little stock in the published #'s even from the mfg themselves. At least part of the ratings are market sales drivin. I seen the #'s change one yr to another without a single change to a vehicle just to stay up with the competition's claims.
Guy here at work had a 2yr old Nissan. He bought a new boat that weighed in at about 8K on the trailer. Well within the published towing #'s. He is now driving a new Ford 150 2 months after getting the boat. Apparently those #'s weren't quite up to shuf on the Nissan. He should have just gone for the 250 and been done with it.

Thats funny to me. I am a Ford guy and just came out of a 2007-F-150 4x4 to a Nissan Titan and the Titan 4x4 will stomp all over the Ford. Trust me, I would like to see the Ford dominate but it just plain does not. I let my old college roommate drive my truck for a 75 mile trip, he has a Escalade and a GMC 2500 with the 6.0 gas, and he could not belive the Titan. He said after stepping out of it that his next truck may very well be a Import. Both trucks pulled the same 7K boat and equipment trailer on the same route.

One interesting thing about MPG's. The F-150 did 15.5 and 8 towing. The Titan does 14 on a good day but has 33" tires but will do 10.5 towing the same load.


At the end of the day it all depends on gear ratios. Put a 4.10 behind a S-10 with a 4.3L and it can tow a lot. Nissan only offers 2 gear ratios. You can tell which it has by the mirrors. Small car like mirrors and it has something like a 2.93 and big truck mirrors like mine has is equipped with 4.10's. Big gap there.
Chris

 

[JasG]

JasG; Also when we register in this state we register for a certain weight. Most folks will register for the lowest weight possible for a vehicle. If something does happen and they're weight is higher, then they're in trouble. Example: truck alone weighs 5000lbs NY resident might register it for 6500lbs truck and total load. Even if the truck could be registered for an extra 4000lbs{total of 9000LBS} if it's not and you get caught BAM!!!

You are correct, my father in-law is over everytime he drives his truck. He only regiesters it for 100 lbs over what it's weight is. It saves him about $15.00 every 2 years, yet his car is registered for it's max weight.
Another thing is the tow vehicle must be rated for the maximum weight of the trailer. You can't get a 12000 lbs trailer, and pull it with a truck only rated for 10000 lbs and be legal. You can register it for less, but they go buy what it can carry, not registered.
I love this state, if there is a way to get money from the people, NY finds a way.

 

[Mike Costello]

Why take all the risks. Think about it--trying to make a truck do more than it was designed to do is just plain folly, not to mention expensive and time consuming. On thing will lead to another and it still gets torn up, but even at a faster rate. Then there's all the legal crap to face too. A man can spend hours playing this issue, but the fact remains--risk.
From my hard won experience, I would recommend this: Keep the F150 as your daily driver because it's paid for AND in nice shape. Buy a older good used diesel 1 ton truck and dedicate it to hauling your tractor around to suit your needs. It will be safer, legal. and much cheaper to own in the long run.

Having been in the automotive service business and owned a tow service (5 trucks), I can safely say I've seen more accidents, more breakdowns, more money lost, more vacations ruined, more legal woes, not to mention anger and frustration--all because folks tried to make equipment do something it was never intended to do. It just isn't worth it. Mike.

 

[roadhawk]

Why take all the risks. Think about it--trying to make a truck do more than it was designed to do is just plain folly, not to mention expensive and time consuming. On thing will lead to another and it still gets torn up, but even at a faster rate. Then there's all the legal crap to face too. A man can spend hours playing this issue, but the fact remains--risk.
From my hard won experience, I would recommend this: Keep the F150 as your daily driver because it's paid for AND in nice shape. Buy a older good used diesel 1 ton truck and dedicate it to hauling your tractor around to suit your needs. It will be safer, legal. and much cheaper to own in the long run.

Having been in the automotive service business and owned a tow service (5 trucks), I can safely say I've seen more accidents, more breakdowns, more money lost, more vacations ruined, more legal woes, not to mention anger and frustration--all because folks tried to make equipment do something it was never intended to do. It just isn't worth it. Mike.

I vote Mike's comment a very good one to follow the advice for. You can go over the limits of most anything (change out a 15 amp fuse with a 20, don't change oil on time, spend more than is in your checking account, eat 3 big plates of turkey dinner on Thanksgiving ) and you may get by with it and you may not. It's called gambling, with the odds and possible outcomes changing based on what you do, or don't do. Do lots of folks gamble? Sure they do- I would bet that all people do at times. That's part of life (and sometimes death I suppose).

In addition, competition being what it is between all the truck manufacturers and the people that buy them (you ever brag to anyone you bought a truck because it has the lowest tow rating of the group so you could save $7.50/year?), truck tow ratings are listed at their max safe amounts based off of the drive-train, chassis, engine, truck weight, accessories, etc etc etc.

Why would manufacturers, their marketers and the owners want it any other way?

 

[LBrown59]

He should have just gone for the 250 and been done with it
I take little stock in the published #'s even from the mfg themselves. At least part of the ratings are market sales drivin. I seen the #'s change one yr to another without a single change to a vehicle just to stay up with the competition's claims.
Guy here at work had a 2yr old Nissan. He bought a new driving a new Ford 150 2 months after getting the boat. Apparently those to shuf on the Nissan. He should have just gone for the 250 and been done with it.

No just go with the 350 from the start .

 

[LBrown59]

You are correct, my father in-law is over everytime he drives his truck. He only regiesters it for 100 lbs over what it's weight is. It saves him about $15.00 every 2 years, yet
1*his car is registered for it's max weight.
Another thing is the tow vehicle must be rated for the maximum weight of the trailer. You can't get a 12000 lbs trailer, and pull it with a truck only rated for 10000 lbs and be legal.
2* You can register it for less, but they go buy what it can carry, not registered.
I love this state, if there is a way to get money from the people, NY finds a way.

1*Glad Ohio don't weigh cars.
2*That sucks as it is the same as charging one with murder simply because of capability .