Top and TIlt, additional stress on 3pt attach pts?

/ Top and TIlt, additional stress on 3pt attach pts? #1  

goneandbrokeit

Silver Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2006
Messages
198
Hi, Just wondering if anyone with top & tilt thinks it adds addition stress to the 3pt attachment points? Here is why I ask...

1 - Considering T&T for use with L3830 and box blade.
2 - I broke one of the "rings" that the hold the attachment pin for my right side lower hitch arm ( this is a casting that I believe would require the tractor to be split to be "officially fixed". I would like opinions on the strength of the repair that was done and if it would hold up to the T&T.

Here is the back story. While switching over from BH90 to box blade, I put the pin in place but neglected to bolt it in. Set the top link short and the scarifiers down and had it aggressively tilted. Went to work till I noticed the BB was not going down, get off and look and notice the sway link is bent almost 90 degrees and hung up on the BH frame.
As I am scracthing my head I notice the broken off piece of casting and the pin laying on the ground. Dumbfounded, I wander back to the barn where I see the bolt on the work bench, case of faulty owner not the tractor's fault.
Around this time my 80 year old neighbor rolls up on his golf cart. After a the usual chit chat, I say "I am having a bad day" and hand him the broken casting. He rolls it over in his hand says "Where's this from?", I tell him, he looks under the tractor and tells me I have a load of trouble as if I didn't know.
Tells me probably alot of $ to get that fixed, but hold off he may know someone who could take a look. And he goes on his way, only to show up that evening to see if he could have the part to show to his friend.
The next moring he stops by around 8 o clock and ask me what time I got up, I tell him 6 and he says that's early but I've been up since 4. Tells me he couldn't sleep because he was thinking about my tractor and the sad expression on my face. He hands me the broken casting that he has milled and drilled to resemble the lower half of a connecting rod along with stainless steel bolts and spacers machined to match.
He then vice gripped it in place, commands me to drill to holes which he promptly taps and bolts it on. Tells me I am set to go. It is kinda like looking at the bottom of a connecting rod ( By the next week he had sway bar straightened and and sliding almost like new).
The repair has held up to moderate box blade use and use with the rotary cutter. Any opinions as to the strength of this repair and if T&T would stress it?
It seems like the bolt that was originally left out takes alot off the load anyway, this part of the casting was not damaged in anyway.
Sorry for the long post.
 
/ Top and TIlt, additional stress on 3pt attach pts? #2  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( The repair has held up to moderate box blade use and use with the rotary cutter. Any opinions as to the strength of this repair and if T&T would stress it? )</font>

Honestly, I don't know enough about your tractor to comment on that, but I can tell you that you have one "jewel" of a neighbor. What a guy! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
 
/ Top and TIlt, additional stress on 3pt attach pts?
  • Thread Starter
#3  
You got that right...I thought I was buying a place in the country to get away from it all. What I ended up with is a good friend.
You read a lot of posts about awful neighbors, I hit the lottery in this respect.
 
/ Top and TIlt, additional stress on 3pt attach pts?
  • Thread Starter
#4  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I don't know enough about your tractor to comment on that)</font>
Jim,
Just asking if you thought I described the repair clearly enough for anyone to answer provided they are familiar with the 3pt set up on a L3830?
Would pictures help?

The piece that broke of is cast iron.
 
/ Top and TIlt, additional stress on 3pt attach pts?
  • Thread Starter
#5  
Attached is a primitive drawing of the area in question and the repair.
 

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/ Top and TIlt, additional stress on 3pt attach pts? #6  
I only have a hydraulic top link on my L3130 but I can not see that it or a side link add any extra stress to the 3pt system. I need to go out and look at my tractor to understand exactly what was done.

Vernon
 
/ Top and TIlt, additional stress on 3pt attach pts? #7  
I took a look at my L3130. Since the pin is seated in the outer ear it is not carrying the total load. I think that you were fortunate in the manner of the break and in your neighbor. You really have few options so run with it.

Vernon
 
/ Top and TIlt, additional stress on 3pt attach pts? #8  
Just an opinion, probably worth all of 2 cents... your repair is probably not quite as strong as before, but it's probably adequate for reasonable use. I am not an engineer but would guess that those tapped screws don't pass the load to the main rear axle casting quite as evenly as the original design, so there may eventually be a fatigue failure in the axle. Anybody's guess whether that would be next month or 20 years from now, but, obviously, the less you beat the snot out of it, the longer it will last.

By the way, I have the same pin setup on my tractor, and I can easily see how you could miss the bolt when changing over from the backhoe.
 
/ Top and TIlt, additional stress on 3pt attach pts? #9  
The only place that you might put stress on your tractor is at the top link bracket behind the seat if you use your box blade in reverse. Several threads/months ago some one posted about having this disaster of ripping the bracket off (with pics). I purchased a Kubota re-enforced/heavy duty bracket for my L3400.

I have the top and tilt sytem and using it with the box blade to cut swales and clean the ditch makes seat time really enjoyable.

I just ordered the W.R. Long Root Rake for another "Toy". Now I can use the excuse to ignore the wife because I have soooooo
many levers to keep my mind on Heh Heh!!!!

"IF it doesn't Fit, Force it, If it Breaks, Then it need fixed anyway!

jw5875
 
/ Top and TIlt, additional stress on 3pt attach pts? #10  
Stainless bolts will have a tendency to stretch under extreme loads. I would sugest that you replace them with grade 8 bolts and locktite them in place with 242 locktite. All in all, a good method to repair a broken casting.

ron
 
/ Top and TIlt, additional stress on 3pt attach pts? #11  
My opinion is that the hydraulic cylinders will have a small shock absorbing effect and thus decrease the shock load on your 3pt lift points.
 
/ Top and TIlt, additional stress on 3pt attach pts?
  • Thread Starter
#12  
Thanks for all the replies. As to the bolts stretching I am optimistic in this installation it may not be a problem. My neighbor did use loctite not sure if the type you mentioned.The "strap" is attached to the pin, so that any pull on the pin is trasmitted thru the steel to the bolt ( so long as you remember to put it in!). This bolt not being atttached caused the failure, so I am guessing the Kub engineers have seen this failure before and designed this strap on the pin for this purpose.
I gonna work it and see if it holds, will see.
 
/ Top and TIlt, additional stress on 3pt attach pts? #13  
I'm not only amazed by the repair but also by the drawing of the repair
 
/ Top and TIlt, additional stress on 3pt attach pts? #14  
Gone:

Welcome to TBN. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif I agree with the others that you have one heck of a neighbor there. Please let me know if the property on the other side of him ever comes up for sale!

Nice drawing, and nice repair. I'm not a mechanical engineer or metallurgist, but I did get a great night's sleep last night, and I have a feeling that repair is going to last. In fact, it might even be stronger than the original, when you consider the total surface area that those bolts are grabbing onto. The setup you've got now reminds me of how a u-joint gets secured into a yoke, with caps and bolts. Granted, the force vectors are much different, with yours being basically longitudinal; but it's going to take quite a bit of force to pull those bolts straight out of those tapped threads.

I'd just make sure the threads are as deep as you can make them. Maybe try to find out how much meat you have to work with before/if you were to deepen the holes, so you don't drill right into the gearcase; but even if that were to happen, seems to me you could still seal the oil in just fine. (The resultant metal chips in the gearcase would be far from ideal, but probably wouldn't end up doing any damage, and would probably come out with the next oil change). Plus, this might be moot anyway - you might have plenty of room.

Oh, one more thing - you might want to considering vee-ing out the fracture lines and arc welding them with Ni-rod, just to help take some of the load off the bolts . It's pretty amazing stuff, and although cast iron is notoriously tough to weld, I have had great success with Ni (nickel alloy)-rod. Pre-heating is always good for penetration, but you don't have to be too particular about the cooling process, in my experience. If you can pack sand around the fresh weld somehow to slow down the cooling, so much the better, but it's pretty forgiving stuff. I'd give it a go though, that repair can use all the strength it can get. If those threads did strip out, things would start to get a little more complicated and "dicey". (Heli-coils, bigger bolts .... I'd hate to see you have to go there - and let's not even think about replacing that piece with a new one). /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Good luck, John
 
/ Top and TIlt, additional stress on 3pt attach pts? #15  
I agree with TREE GUY about welding to help in reinforcing the lug. You have to remember that lug takes all the pulling force from a pulled implement like a BB.
 
/ Top and TIlt, additional stress on 3pt attach pts?
  • Thread Starter
#16  
John,
Not a welder, would like to learn but from what I heard cast iron wouldn't be a good place for me to start. I will try and find someone who has worked with cast iron before and see what they say.
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( and let's not even think about replacing that piece with a new one)</font>
When I first showed my neighbor the break he asked me what I was going to do. I said I guess take it to the dealer...he just shook his head and said "piss on that!"
 
/ Top and TIlt, additional stress on 3pt attach pts? #17  
If that doesn't hold, what about taking something like the quick hitch advertised on here and seeing if your talented and generous neighbor can replace the regular arm ends with a pair of those? I think what you have there should hold unless you start dragging a 2 or 3 bottom plow through heavy soil, but it's hard to tell.
 
/ Top and TIlt, additional stress on 3pt attach pts? #18  
Just a point in clarification. That lug only takes 1/4 of the load in a straight on pull.

Vernon
 
/ Top and TIlt, additional stress on 3pt attach pts?
  • Thread Starter
#19  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Just a point in clarification. That lug only takes 1/4 of the load in a straight on pull.

Vernon
)</font>
Hi Vernon, I see you have an L3130, does this also have the steel "strap" welded to the pin and get bolted to the casting ( the meat part of the casting away from the break). It is my hope ( not an ME) that the 1/4 of the load is being trasmitted at least 50% via the steel strap and the "lug"/"ear" is lining the pin up, but not designed to hold the whole load anyway.
If this is true than I would say more along the line of 1/8.
 
/ Top and TIlt, additional stress on 3pt attach pts? #20  
I agree that the load is something less than 1/4 but not knowing the strength of the metal in that strap and the size and strength of the bolt, I did not figure it in.

Vernon
 

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