tld
Silver Member
I have ordered a 410 loader with 52 in bucket for my JD4110. Is a toothbar helpful for a small tractor such as this? Where can I get one and how much?
Toothbar for 410
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kennyd
Advertiser
I got mine from KC Canary , it was about $280 delivered to my door. Fantastic to deal with and superb quality(it is made by FFC attachments).
It is very helpfull digging, I recently plucked a whole mess of roots out of the ground that I could not get out with the flat edge on the bucket(some pics are in the link below).
It is very helpfull digging, I recently plucked a whole mess of roots out of the ground that I could not get out with the flat edge on the bucket(some pics are in the link below).
JDGREEN4ME
Veteran Member
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- John Deere 2520, John Deere X534, GT 225, GT 275
I have the 61" bucket on my 410 loader with a WOODS tooth bar, works great. I paid right around $300 and that included shipping. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
Inspector507
Super Member
54" shipped to my door or the dealer for $270......and it's the best $270 I ever spent /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Umm....at least until Midwest puts out it's quick hitch /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif.......Jim ya reading this??
Umm....at least until Midwest puts out it's quick hitch /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif.......Jim ya reading this??
EquipmentJunkie
Platinum Member
Tom,
You will notice a toothbar's benefits on a tractor like yours as much as on a larger tractor... maybe even more. A toothbar acts like a horsepower boost. It makes digging so much easier.
Why not check with ATI Corp., a TBN advertiser? web page
You will notice a toothbar's benefits on a tractor like yours as much as on a larger tractor... maybe even more. A toothbar acts like a horsepower boost. It makes digging so much easier.
Why not check with ATI Corp., a TBN advertiser? web page
AltaLawnCare
Bronze Member
I was lucky, my 4115 had a quick removable toothbar on it when I got it, new from the dealer.
My old Kioti diodn't have one....its the difference between night and day! A must have accessary.
Mine goes on and off in under 5 minutes.
My old Kioti diodn't have one....its the difference between night and day! A must have accessary.
Mine goes on and off in under 5 minutes.
PineRidge
Super Member
I hope you guys are not pulling my leg here about this tooth bar thing. After reading a lot of posts on the subject I ordered one for the 72 inch bucket on my TC-40D. Haven't seen it yet but I imagine it will come in around the 1st of the year. If it helps to get a better bite out of the ground then I'm all for it.
JDGREEN4ME
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You WILL be impressed. I only have a 20 HP tractor but man what a difference! /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
TerryinMD
Veteran Member
A FEL without a toothbar is like a tractor without a FEL. You can't imagine not having one once you use it.
Terry
Terry
Junkman
Super Member
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I was lucky, my 4115 had a quick removable toothbar on it when I got it, new from the dealer. ................Mine goes on and off in under 5 minutes. )</font>
Could you please post a picture of the mounting. I have never heard of such a thing as a quick mount for the tooth bar... thanks
Could you please post a picture of the mounting. I have never heard of such a thing as a quick mount for the tooth bar... thanks
My 4100 with the 410 loader with 60" bucket was useless for digging without the toothbar. Not enough machine weight to get enough traction to push the blade into the ground, and not enough breakout force on the bucket to pry up the hard clay I have. Heck, it was even kind of whimpy when just trying to fill the bucket from the un-compacted dirt pile when I was using it to back-fill my house foundation.
I added a toothbar and it became much more useful.
My toothbar is easily removable as well, but it has never been removed. It is held in place by two 3/4" bolts through the side of the bucket. Removal would require the annoying step of cleaning enough of the caked dirt off to get a wrench on the bolt head inside the bucket, but nothing complicated or time consuming. Its also kind of heavy - once removed you are not going to just casually toss it on a shelf for storage.
A couple of times I thought about removing it when loading some rocks off of pavement, but it was quicker to just shovel the last couple of bucket-loads into the bucket by hand.
I am also contemplating increasing the hydraulic pressure on the SCV - rumor is that it comes factory set to only 1500 PSI.
Besides increasing the ability to dig, the teeth are useful for:
- Raking. Dumping the teeth to a vertical position and pulling back, you can rake out a smooth, controlled amount of material. A forward pass with the bottom of the bucket (teeth up out of the way) removes the grooved teeth marks.
- Lifting things. It is easy to use a corner tooth to snag certain types of things and lift them. Other attachments are a common example of things that get lifted this way.
- Increases the capacity of the bucket. Especially for things like larger rock, rubbish, and construction debris. Even for dirt, the heaped capacity is bigger. Unfortunately, the increased weight reduces the payload. The 410 on my 4100 is under-powered as it is - it often cannot lift a fully-full bucket of dirt.
- Traction. When you need to pull the tractor up out of a hole full of wet clay using the loader, the teeth can really grab the ground and help claw the machine up and out.
- Putting holes in things (unintentionally). The teeth do stick out another 6 inches or so. Its easy to misjudge where they will go during a turn and drive a corner tooth into something like a building, a vehicle, etc.
- Rick
I added a toothbar and it became much more useful.
My toothbar is easily removable as well, but it has never been removed. It is held in place by two 3/4" bolts through the side of the bucket. Removal would require the annoying step of cleaning enough of the caked dirt off to get a wrench on the bolt head inside the bucket, but nothing complicated or time consuming. Its also kind of heavy - once removed you are not going to just casually toss it on a shelf for storage.
A couple of times I thought about removing it when loading some rocks off of pavement, but it was quicker to just shovel the last couple of bucket-loads into the bucket by hand.
I am also contemplating increasing the hydraulic pressure on the SCV - rumor is that it comes factory set to only 1500 PSI.
Besides increasing the ability to dig, the teeth are useful for:
- Raking. Dumping the teeth to a vertical position and pulling back, you can rake out a smooth, controlled amount of material. A forward pass with the bottom of the bucket (teeth up out of the way) removes the grooved teeth marks.
- Lifting things. It is easy to use a corner tooth to snag certain types of things and lift them. Other attachments are a common example of things that get lifted this way.
- Increases the capacity of the bucket. Especially for things like larger rock, rubbish, and construction debris. Even for dirt, the heaped capacity is bigger. Unfortunately, the increased weight reduces the payload. The 410 on my 4100 is under-powered as it is - it often cannot lift a fully-full bucket of dirt.
- Traction. When you need to pull the tractor up out of a hole full of wet clay using the loader, the teeth can really grab the ground and help claw the machine up and out.
- Putting holes in things (unintentionally). The teeth do stick out another 6 inches or so. Its easy to misjudge where they will go during a turn and drive a corner tooth into something like a building, a vehicle, etc.
- Rick
varmint
Elite Member
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Rick: your list of tasks better done with a toothbar is right-on! I have had a chance to play with my little home-made toothbar that I posted last week, and it does all the things you wrote of. Mine weighs maybe 35 lbs, so it doesn't really decrease the limited capacity of my FEL (which is only a 48" bucket) but I can appreciate the benefits of a larger bucket with more serious teeth. Of course, that would require a larger tractor...
There is a pressure releif adjustment on the SCV valve.
The pump will only be able to produce a certain maximum pressure and the other components of the system will only be rated for some pressure as well, but most hydraulic parts these days are rated for at least 2000 psi.
If the valve is indeed only set for 1600 psi from the factory, I could get up to 25% more pressure. Since some portion of the existing hydraulic force is used just lifting the FEL arms and bucket, the increase in payload would by more than the 25%.
Of course this comes at a cost:
1. The higher pressure will likely wear things out faster. Especially the pump, the lift cylinder seals, and the scv valve.
2. The increased force will likely also stress and/or wear the FEL mechanism out faster. Perhaps bending something that wouldn't otherwise bend.
3. The increased payload will make the tractor even more unstable, so the rear ballast will need to be increased and safety will be decreased. Becase the bucket is wider than than the tractor, uneven loading (like a corner bucket tooth snagging a root while digging) could also tip the tractor sideways. Since my wheels are already at maximum width, not something thaqt can easily be compensated for.
4. The increased total weight of tractor, ballast, and payload will put more stress on the drivetrain, axles, and frame of the machine. Likely wearing things out faster or perhaps bending or breaking something.
So, if I do this, I will bre prepared to be replacing the wear-out things more often and being even more careful about ballast, stability, and tipping.
- Rick
The pump will only be able to produce a certain maximum pressure and the other components of the system will only be rated for some pressure as well, but most hydraulic parts these days are rated for at least 2000 psi.
If the valve is indeed only set for 1600 psi from the factory, I could get up to 25% more pressure. Since some portion of the existing hydraulic force is used just lifting the FEL arms and bucket, the increase in payload would by more than the 25%.
Of course this comes at a cost:
1. The higher pressure will likely wear things out faster. Especially the pump, the lift cylinder seals, and the scv valve.
2. The increased force will likely also stress and/or wear the FEL mechanism out faster. Perhaps bending something that wouldn't otherwise bend.
3. The increased payload will make the tractor even more unstable, so the rear ballast will need to be increased and safety will be decreased. Becase the bucket is wider than than the tractor, uneven loading (like a corner bucket tooth snagging a root while digging) could also tip the tractor sideways. Since my wheels are already at maximum width, not something thaqt can easily be compensated for.
4. The increased total weight of tractor, ballast, and payload will put more stress on the drivetrain, axles, and frame of the machine. Likely wearing things out faster or perhaps bending or breaking something.
So, if I do this, I will bre prepared to be replacing the wear-out things more often and being even more careful about ballast, stability, and tipping.
- Rick
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