Toolcat 3 point is coming

[radman1]

Plans are still in the works for the 3pt toolcat. Maybe later this year?

 

[Rolando]

Do you know of any specifics as to how it will be implemented or how it will affect the rest of the design? I think you'd mentioned before that they might do away with the truck bed? Every time I turn around it seems I'm really needing a 3-pt hitch and there aren't very good solutions to get around the of the 3-pt on the Toolcat

 

[radman1]

I don't know specifics as it is still a work in progress. 3 pt lift will likely be around 2000 lbs. Position control on the 3 point. No down pressure on 3 point like the prototype had. It is relatively easy with the new D series design to mount the lift arms to the spine frame. Very rigid and no twisting like a typical frame construction would have. The prototype had lift arms just like a CUT and an external single cylinder for the lift (Some Kubotas have external lift cylinders.) Even a single, relatively small cylinder can create a lot of lift for a 3 point. Relatively simple and straight forward design. Uses a 3 link just like a CUT.
The prototype I saw had the cargo box deleted but current plans are to leave hydraulic dump bed on. Still trying to figure out best way to dump around/over 3 point. Side dump vs rear dump? Should have rear hydraulic outlets. PTO about 30 hp via hydraulic motor but are looking at other more direct connection to engine to increase pto hp. With available flow rate and pressure, 30 hp is about the most to expect out of hydraulic motor.

Availability? Fall or winter?
Peak toolcat sales are actually in the fall/winter due to snow removal. It would be nice to have it ready by then. There is someone in Canada that has 40 toolcats used for snow removal. Using both a snowplow/blade or snowblower on the back or front at the same time sounds like and ideal solution for snow removal. For me, I would use snowplow on the front and snowblower on the back. I use a plow more than a blower. With deep snow some may prefer the blower on the front and blade in the back.

 

[theoshin]

i would go side dump.

 

[radman1]

i would go side dump.

I believe they have considered that option. I don't have a toolcat and I don't know how that would interfere with access to stuff on the dump side for repairs/maintenance. The other problem with side dump would be the requirement of different box, dimensions, tailgate, hydraulics etc. More simple and cheaper to keep things the same way, if possible. I am kind of concerned what the price of new machine might be with 3 point, rear pto, dump box, rear hydraulics etc.

 

[jmfox]

Side dump is the only way to assure that it is always available. Now, for the real problem. The standard side slippers won't plow. Either 4 tracks or reinvent the ag tire. More high and more wide if you expect to pull anything through the dirt.

jmf

 

[theoshin]

i have tracks on my polaris ranger - they would cut down on turning radius. i would think with the 4wl steer they would hit the tc in the back???

i think the biggest disad of the tc is traction. we can slow down when the things get bumpy but the tc can't hold a candle to a awd tractor with real tires in the dirt/mud.

 

[radman1]

i think the biggest disad of the tc is traction. we can slow down when the things get bumpy but the tc can't hold a candle to a awd tractor with real tires in the dirt/mud.[/QUOTE]

I have said it in the past, the tc needs an ag type tire option. Bobcat does not quite get the traction issue. A lug tire such as used on dedicated trenchers or vibratory plow machine are low profile, fairly wide and still give good floatation/traction without being too aggressive for yard work. Probably smoother ride since tire is not so hard. Skid steer tires are HORRIBLE in mud. Ok for dry conditions. The tc tires don't skid like a conventional skid steer and wear is not nearly as big an issue.

 

[radman1]

A little update on the 3 pt toolcat. Hopefully, production will start in Feb or possibly March 2008. The cargo box is still being developed. Box will probably be of a composite material rather than steel. The pto will be hydraulic and give about 30 hp. Hydraulic front bob-tach for hooking onto equipment will probably be a new option.

 

[UFM82]

Don't look now! I can't give any specifics and I apologize for quality but here's what I've seen.

 

[jmfox]

Interesting peek. Nice tires. I guess the dump is coming later. This will be a big boost for the new Bobcat company. I trust they will be beefing up the axles and offering larger tire options.

jmf

 

[Rolando]

Ditto on the larger tire option. I also wish they would consider a dual action floor pedal for forward and reverse rather than the wheel stalk shift lever. I've tried both now and I like the tractor setup a lot better.

 

[odleefs]

That Toolcat set up for the 3 Pt is really pretty! We all know that a TC has more than enough power to pull, but traction is a significant issue. Rather than larger tires (which would raise the excellent center of gravity), I propose dually wheels all around to beef up the traction, minimize ground pressure issues and add lateral stability...I am shocked that there isn't any manufacturer offering this as an aftermarket accessory.

 

[radman1]

UFM82
Thanks for the picture. That is what the prototype looked like. A composite box will probably be an option instead of just the rear cover where the radiator also sits.

Rolando
I also told them the dual pedal setup was better than the column shift lever but no known changes in that area. The floor space is very limited due to the front wheel well. Probably not enough room for forward pedal, reverse pedal and brake for people with big feet or boots.

jmfox
No known change in the axles. Bobcat feels the suspension system is already overbuilt. The axles are protected by the hydraulics which can supply only a specific torque before the relief valve opens. I have not heard of any axle failures. Can't get the tires too tall because it may affect an attachment on the loader arms which can only go so low.

I don't know if they are making allowances for rear hydraulics. Those are a must for 3pt equipment and attachments with hydraulic cylinders or if a top and tilt is used.

 

[jmfox]

Larger tires can mean wider like the forestry tires with more aggressive tread. The axles will get a beating when towing 3pt attachments. They might be okay for a brush mower but if you start pulling excavating implements, say a plow... well that's why tractors have straight axles.

jmf

 

[dylan]

That's looking good. I'd like to try a snow blade on the front and a snow blower on the rear. it would be a great setup for winter.

 

[Rolando]

Does anybody know if the PTO will be an option or standard? With the mower in the front, I don't need the PTO in the rear and it would be nice not to have to pay for it. But I agree that you need hydraulics back there for top and tilt if nothing else. Maybe an electrical control circuit also?

Does anybody know what kind of lifting capacity the 3pt will have?

I wouldn't miss the hydraulic dumping bed, myself. Ever since I got a dumping wagon, I've only used the dump bed on the TC to access the motor and filter. Having a bed for tool carrying is a most, though. I think the lighter composite bed should work fine. Will it need some kind of lift assist, or will it be light enough?

I'm glad to hear they're finally making the power bob-tach available for the Toolcat. I've been nagging my dealer about that ever since I found out about the option.

 

[theoshin]

i would think the d would stay as is and the pto model a different version. i cant believe they would stop producing a model with a tilt bed. many buyers such as municipalities likely would not want to have to pay for the 3pt.

my 2 cents

 

[Rolando]

I think maybe I didn't make myself clear. My understanding is that the 3PT hitch version will be a different model from the 'D' so that if you don't want a 3PT hitch, you will still get the hydraulic dump bed. I don't think you can dump if you have the lift arms and top link in the back.

My question about the PTO being an option was in regard to that 3pt hitch model. I was wondering if you could get the 3pt hitch version without the PTO. I need to drag and lift 3pt hitch implements, but I won't need to drive a PTO shaft. I would like to avoid paying for the PTO, since I wouldn't need it.

 

[radman1]

I believe the PTO will be standard on the 3 pt version, much like a tractor. Lots of attachments require a pto. The lift capacity of the 3 pt should be 2000 lbs. PTO hp about 30.

I spoke with another dealer the other day who seemed to be fairly knowledgable on the upcoming 3 pt version. He said that the 3 pt version will not have any cargo/dump box according to what he knew.
On the current D series with dump box, the radiator and fan sit immediately behind the spine frame and extend the length of the toolcat by about 20 inches and are level with the top of the spine frame. The dump box currently extends over the top of the radiator fan. On the 3 pt version, the radiator and fan are placed on top of the spine frame and placed immediately behind the cab. The lift arms take the place of the previous fan location. Therefore, on the 3 pt version, the overall length was not changed significantly with the addition of the lift arms. Also the 3 pt arms are attached to the spine frame which is very strong and the arms are close to the rear axle/suspension. This allows maximum lift without elevating the front of the toolcat. The fan behind the cab would sit about 12" above the top of the spine. Any cargo/dump box on the 3 pt version would have to sit over the fan (now located behind the cab) and be fairly high from the ground. Possibly a small cargo box could sit on either side of the fan.
On the 3 pt without a cargo/dump box, a plastic cover sits around the fan and extends to the side of the toolcat. The overall distance from the cab to the lift arms is about 3 feet. At the most, any cargo box could only be about 3 feet in length.
If the dump box is deleted, I hope the cost for the 3 pt and pto may not increase the price too much. A 3pt should not be too expensive to develop as parts are already available. The pto has be used on other models and is basically a hydraulic motor. 2-3 rear hydraulic outlets maybe another expense.

Dealer also told me when they were initially designing the toolcat, the early concept was to make the cargo box removeable. It was hoped to be like a roll-off container used by some trucks. Slide the box off the back, and load it with the toolcat. Then pull it back on the toolcat, lock it down, take the load to its destination and dump it. Alais, this has never happened.