Tipsy - what angle?

[JCA]

Yesterday I took my new tractor down the hill into the woods for the first time. I live in a little valley and there's not much flat. But much of the work I want to do with it is down in the woods.

I'm new at this, and I experienced firsthand what folks around here call the "pucker factor." Going down the hill and back up again (straight up and down) made me a little nervous at first, but it wasn't a big deal. It was going sideways that really made me nervous. I've got a stream at the bottom of the valley, and though it's fairly flat down there there are a few spots where one side gets quite a bit higher than the other. I doubt I was ever very near tipping (I've seen tractor-mowed hayfields much steeper), but, being inexperienced, it still made me nervous.

I'll be ordering my tilt-meter today, but what I REALLY need to know is HOW MUCH angle my tractor can take. Just a ballpark figure. What's considered safe? Side-to-side? Front to back? Back to front?

I'm using a Kubota B7510, with loader kept low, and loaded R4s.

Thanks,
Jim

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Side to side, I would think about 12 degrees would get you puckering pretty darn good. The 7510 is a fairly narrow tractor, it wouldn't take much to put it on its side and roll it down the hill. I know my TC24D (similar size frame, slightly larger engine) will climb up and down some steep stuff, probably approaching 20 degrees, but I'd never consider turning the wheel on one of those inclines. Understand that each tractor will be different so there will be only one correct answer and I doubt you want to "test" the issue with your tractor! I have a little Ventrac that is made for slopes and rough situations, I've made "U-turns" and "figure 8's" while mowing on 20 degree slopes, but I won't even take my NH on some of the slope I now mow with the Ventrac. Prior to the Ventrac I used a Cub Cadet with 75# wheel weights and tire chains and on those same slopes I lost traction and spun the wheels EVERY TIME the tractor was on them . . . and even using the tractor on those hills for about a decade, I never got used to the feeling of almost tipping over.


ONE THING THAT MIGHT HELP, see if you can dish your wheels OUT or check to see if you have adjustable wheels that can give you a wider track with your rear tires.

Also, you said you have loaded R-4s, are all 4 loaded or just the rear tires?

 

[Henro]

JCA,

Take a look at some of the Penn State videos here and you can get a good idea of how easy, at least in the worst case, a tractor could roll/tip over.

The problem is that unlike a bicycle, few push thier tractors to the limit to really know how stable they are. I have 15 to 20 degree slopes and while maybe I could turn my tractor sideways on 20 degrees, I get so uncomfortable at 15 degrees I would doubt I will ever do anything up straight up or down on the 20 degree areas. Unless you try it how can one know? I have read 15 degrees should be fine...but 15 do not feel fine to me.

Also a hole, rock or stump, or even a soft spot can change the angle dramatically. So can speed. Slow is better than fast on a cross slope.

Take a look at those videos if you have a chance. You may have to download them and play them local to your computer to get a "real time" disply. Some have said they needed to do this.

I've attached a "food for thought" photo. I forget who posted it here. The slope is not really that steep from what I can see. If I remember right, a woman was dragging that little stump, but had it tied up high somewhere, rather than on the draw bar. She was not hurt, and was not wearing her seat belt either! At least two mistakes. Tractors do tip, not just in the videos! /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

 

[rockinmywaypa]

I've got larger ag tractors that are wider than you are probably dealing with and Ifeel pretty confident up to maybe 30 degrees BUT the thing I keep my eyes peeled out for are small lumps like a stone or ridge of soil or a groundhog hole. These are the things that can give you an unexpected lift and throw you way over the limit.

 

[CTyler]

Well it depends on Your tractor and the how wide the rims are set. On My tractor 20 deg has my attention. I have a slope that is 25 deg for little stretch and the tractor is stable on it sideways. However it still makes me nervous at that angle and I go very very slow. I got off the tractor on the high side and tried pushing it one time to see if it would budge at all...nothing.

What you have to be carefull of is low and/or high spots that momentarily increase the angle. Thats the big danger, suddenly you increase your angle by 5 deg and over you go.

 

[JerryG]

Jim,
Most any tractor can go to 15*. Some can go a lot more. The problem comes in when you hit a rock or a depression. That can change the angle really quick. Keep the angle low and go slow until you know for sure what is there, that you can run over. And please wear your seat beat.

 

[Junkman]

Yesterday, I thought that my tractor was going to go over when the front wheel fell into a hole that wasn't there last year. It took the rear right tire into the air and had me frightened for a while afterward. You never know when something is going to go wrong quickly. I turned over my last machine and it was the same thing that time. One of the front wheels dropped into a hole and the rear wheels pushing gave it just enough momentum to flip it on its side. I have developed a healthy respect for how even on relatively flat land, you can have problems, that I don't even consider going across a grade, but only back up them for safety reasons. Also watch your tire pressures to make sure that they are inflated enough. I checked mine afterward and found that the front tires were on the low side and that might have also led to the instability. It takes longer to upright a tractor than it does to take the precautions to not have the accident in the first place!!!

 

[diverrick]

I have a compact Model 70 JD w/Front loader and it rolls in places my old two wheel ford never had a probelm with. I have had it tip twice on me. first time was a backwards runaway on dry grass, and any tractor would have rolled, but the second time suprised me. I was regrading my driveway. I turned sideways to clear some dirt on the sie of the road, and over she went, real slow to. It just was at that balance point.
I would like to add some extenders to the axles, especially on the fronts, as they are quite narrow IMHO. If anyone knows where one can get something to help, please contact me.

 

[JCA]

Thanks, everyone. Henro, those videos didn't make me feel much safer, but then I guess that's the idea, right?

All this advice has convinced me that what I need is a tractor road; I kinda hate to do it, because it's along a really pretty part of the stream, but there's no other way down into the woods. I really only need to flatten it out in a couple of places and I'll be all right.

Thanks, all.
Jim

 

[chucko]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Well it depends on Your tractor and the how wide the rims are set. On My tractor 20 deg has my attention. I have a slope that is 25 deg for little stretch and the tractor is stable on it sideways. However it still makes me nervous at that angle and I go very very slow. I got off the tractor on the high side and tried pushing it one time to see if it would budge at all...nothing. )</font>

I could just see the look on you face if it did roll after you push on it

 

[SPIKER]

CHUCKO got to it before i DID!. HUMM NOT VERRY ROCKY OH $h|t as it tumbles down the slope! /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif hopefully you wouldn't HOLD ON trying to stop it form going! as it would pull you and toss you over the top and down hill in-front of you!

like others said the chuck holes are what makes the PUCKER factor skyrocket. out of 2~3 high pucker factor times ALL of them have been due to an UNEXPECTED problem. 2 of them were woodchuck holes and one was a burried phone pole that caused a sceek bank to collapse on me. (everything rolled into bottom of creek as the poll rolled out from under the front & rear side wheels of the tractor causeing it to SLIDE sideways down the slope into creek. LUCKY for me the roto tiller center harrow tine grabbed into the bank stopping the rear end ! /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif it bent the harrow about 2" SIDEWWAYS it is made of 1" by about 3" solid steel!

I straightened it in our 150 ton press.

Mark M /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[DaveInColorado]

Thanks for the thread! I have a tilt meter on my Kubota BX1500 and feel pretty good about slow moving mowing up to 20 degrees or so and occassionally up to 30 degrees if I have an escape route down the hill. Slow is the key! A hill with bumps requires extreme caution. The rollover video is sobering! That doesn't look like a very steep hill.

 

[CTyler]

I probably wouldn't have been thrilled if it did roll. However if it had rolled it wouldn't go anywhere, maybe a foot, cause it would have tipped onto level ground. The slope is only about 15' and the tractor was at the bottom of it.

 

[Zoomie]

Interesting... but I noticed that the 4WD was not engaged, and wonder how that might have affected the test.

 

[jhburke]

I was mowing today around a pond. I have a B7500 with a Ford 515 sickle bar mower on it. It has a seven foot cutter bar. I had about 250 lbs in the front bucket. I was moving real slow on realitive flat bank. I dropped the front wheel into about a 3 " hole. I went up on 3 wheels and swayed there. I stopped and when it settled down I very carefully backed up and changed my path. You don't have to be on a steep slope to get in trouble. JIM

 

[Cottonhawk]

I am also a new owner of tractor. There are many steep slopes on my property need to be mowed. The worst one is a long steep hillside and was named by the previous owner "cardiac hill". I installed the duel tilt meter last week and mowed the cardiac hill. I did it very very slowly and tried to keep it up and down. I got to fifteen degrees on the side ways few times and it was NOT FUN! The up and down was mostly twenty to twenty-five degrees. My tractor is a brand new NHTC40DA. The tilt meter really helped. I also kept my FEL really low almost the whole time I was mowing the hill.

 

[Laminarman]

I have a tilt meter on my TC40DA and was mowing reeaaal slow last week when I had my first pucker. I was on about a 10 degree slope and feeling okay, when all of a sudden I felt the back end sink and left front tire lifting. I had the rotary cutter in the up position going to a new spot to mow. Since that was a very slow event the pucker onset slowly, but man did I grab that seat with my booty. There was a deep rut covered by high grass, and had my downhill tire fallen into it disaster was probably inevitable.

I'm wondering if having a mower (6 foot) down will aid stability while traversing sideways and up/down? Kind of like a wheely on drag cars?

 

[JoelT]

I got used to mowing 20/25deg sidehills no problem on my old TO20 but that pucker factor you guys talk about is hitting at maybe 10deg on my new 4310. Don't know what to do but to put chains on it and see when it'll start to roll. The chassis height, wheelbase and width are nearly identical but I'm sitting a foot or so higher which adds to pucker power. Looking at the tractors mass and center of gravity it seems it would easily sit on maybe 40/45deg, making 20/25deg relatively safe, but.......

Joel

 

[rfawkes]

Yesterday while spraying weeds on a steep slope I did not even feel uncomfortable when the top heavy sprayer plunked over on its side and bent the #**# out of the sprayer hitch. I will go slow and careful from now on.

 

[PineRidge]

Fifteen degrees is the max for me. I have been known to back out if it gets steeper than that. My TC-40D may be able to hold a steeper angle but I'm not finding out in this lifetime. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif