Tipping / dump trailer. Will this hydraulic ram work?

[rockyroadnz]

Tipping / dump trailer. Will this hydraulic ram set up work?
Hi, I am building a tipping trailer to use behind my tractor, using some recycled parts to minimise cost. I have got the trailer and tipping deck built but before building too much steel work for the ram I wonder if anyone can tell me whether this will work. I have read lots of forum posts and tried to figure out some of the spreadsheets others have posted, but the angles and calculations do not make sense to me.
I have attached a diagram at the bottom of this text showing what I plan, and listed what I think are the key facts here.
The tipping deck is 3.5 metres (11ft 6in) long, and the hinge point will be 0.6 metre (2ft) from the back.
The all up weight of the tipping deck and its load will be 2500kg (5500lbs). Assuming it is a pile of dirt on the deck I suppose most of the weight will be forward of the hinge point. i.e. the ram will have to lift pretty much all of the weight because very little weight will be on the overhang.
The ram I have is 1.180 metres (46.5 in) retracted and 1.95 metres (76.75 in) extended.
The ram is 92mm (3.6in) ID. I cannot actually measure the ram inside diameter because the ram is assembled but OD less a generous allowance for wall thickness gives me 92mm (3.6in) ID
I can mount the ram bottom hinge centre 0.35 metres (14 in) horizontally below where the ram is attached to the tipping deck. I might even be able to stretch that to 0.4 metres (15.75in).
The manual for my tractor says it produces 160KGF/CM2 (2250 psi) at 40 litres per minute (11GPM)

With the tractor producing 160KGF/CM2 (2250 psi) will that be enough for the ram to tip the deck?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

BTW. I hope I have picked the right forum for this question. There were a few to choose from.

 

[Leejohn]

I had to set the cyl base down 15 degs, less then that if I a level load it would not start the lift cycle.

 

[redman135]

Hello rockyroadnz,I see you have a 48 degree tipping angle. This is barely adequate, and topsoil ,clay and rotten rock will all stick to the deck. You need to be at about 55 degrees with the tip angle to clear the load.
2)Have a look at other ag trailers, you will find that most rams are laid forward (yours is laid back, ie spear pin hole is behind the cylinder pin hole) and when extended, have a very steep tip angle.
3)If you want to cart bulky loads like hay then you should use an extension deck, otherwise a long overhang will mean the deck will hit the ground when tipping.
4)You will need to state the square inchs of the cylinder to calculate the ram capacity, and what the trailer load capacity is. ie trailer load x preassure = required ram capacity. Some one else will probably explain better than me.

 

[davedj1]

I agree with what redman said. One thing with my dump trailer I built is that it can barely get a load started, once it starts it has no problems, I wish I could have made my cylinder angle steeper but I didn't want one end too close to the ground.
I have a 4" cylinder.
On yours I would shorten the rear overhang by 1' and take another 6" or so off the front. Unless you are only dumping light bulky loads it will struggle at best. I intentionally built mine as a low profile but to do it again I would go deck over for less mess when dumping, I have to spread the load out.
Good luck and keep us posted.
Dave

 

[rockyroadnz]

Thanks everyone for your comments. Very helpful.
It’s a good thing I asked before I started mounting the hydraulic ram.
Regarding Redmans post. Thanks - I had not thought of putting the ram 'laid forward' so I have redrawn it that way in a scale drawing and with a 55 degree tipping angle. The drawing is attached at bottom of the text. By temporarily positioning the cylinder on blocks under the trailer I have also figured out that I can get the cylinder bottom mounting point 17 inches (430mm) vertically lower than where the top of the cylinder mounts on the tipping deck. I think this improves the angles and therefore has more lift.
Am I correct to think that with the ram laid forward the tipping deck hinge point should be as high as possible to?
Re the overhang hitting the ground – I will cut that to a suitable length once the rest is made.
The ram OD is 4 inches (101.6mm) so it is around 3.5 inches inside diameter. I calculate this means a cylinder area of 9.622 square inches at 2250psi = 21,650 lbs force pushing straight out of the cylinder. But from here I get lost with the calculation because the angle between the cylinder, deck and hinge point all have to be taken into account somehow. I can do mathematics OK, but I don't know which angles or formula to use.

Can anyone tell me how much weight this redesigned layout will be able to lift to tip the deck?
Thanks again.

 

[jenkinsph]

Just some information I found, most of the 12v hydraulic dump kit have a higher psi output at 2900. These dump kits run a much lower flow rate about 1.5 gpm. Even at half speed (fast idle) your tractor would be much faster at 5 gpm.

My 14 ft. dump trailer uses a 5" cylinder with a scissor lift. So the cylinder max force would be 19.63 x 2900= 56,941 lbs,. It can struggle at times to lift a full load of dirt, much better limiting the load to about 3 yards of gravel or slightly more for dirt. My payload capacity rating is about 9,600 lbs. Just a wild guess but the bed is about half the trailer weight so add the 2000 lbs of bed to the payload for 11,600 lbs. At half of this weight 5,800 lbs is close to what you are specifying. At half of the cylinder force 28,470 lbs. on my trailer that is still a 30% increase over your proposed setup. I do not think it will work.

 

[davedj1]

Try these:
Hydraulic Cylinder Calculator
Hydraulic Cylinder Calculator (Angle Calc)

 

[jenkinsph]

Try these:
Hydraulic Cylinder Calculator
Hydraulic Cylinder Calculator (Angle Calc)

Thanks for finding the calculators David:thumbsup:

 

[rockyroadnz]

Dave, Thanks for the calculator links.
Do I use the angle between the tipping deck and the hydraulic ram (21 degrees)? See diagram in my post yesterday at 1.30pm.
I tried the baumhydraulics 'cylinder mounted at an angle' calculator using a 3.5" cyl, 2250psi and 21 degrees and it gives a vertical lift of 7758 lbs - which is about 2000lbs more than I need. So if I am using the correct angle that looks like it would work.

Also with the ram 'laid forward' as suggested by Redman, the ram pushes about 1 foot forward of the center of the load. Does that affect the calculation? Just checking for anything else I need to consider, before I start building the mounts for the ram.

 

[davedj1]

You guys are welcome, someone shared them with me so I'm just passing them along.
Well rockyroadnz, there are people more educated than i on this forum that can answer your questions. I built a 6 x 10 dump trailer about 5 years ago and it has worked great.
I think you are on the right track using that angle. One thing I am in the process of making now is a front end loader for my 1920 Deutz Allis. One thing I have learned (actually a lot of great info on here) is that the angle will constantly change, same with your dump trailer. I'm sorry I can't be of any more help.
Side note, my dump trailer is only 6 x 10 on two 3500 # axles, the trailer weighs 1972# so I can only safely haul around 4K which I seldom do, If I need gravel hauled I call people with dump trucks. I have a 4" by 24" cylinder at 13.5 deg angle, if she's full she will struggle to get it going, once it starts it works great. Oh and my cyl is facing the rear ( I basically copied my brothers store bought trailer).