Tipping a tractor

[Bird]

MJB, you're sure right about getting flats fixed promptly, and cleaning the wheel when you do. A neighbor who bought an old used Oliver a few years ago discovered that it had calcium in the tires and he's had a few flats (which got rid of the stuff), but he had to buy a pair of wheels last month because the valve stem holes in the wheels had corroded until the holes were far too large. And since the entire wheels were severely corroded, he decided to not try to fix the holes by welding.

Bird

 

[JerryG]

The page on wheel weights is www.his.com/~msimpson/tractor/index.htm. When you get there go to the hackers page. I made a set like his, but I didn't use 25 lb. weights. I have 24 inch wheels, so I used 50 lb. ones. If you need the measurements on the weights they are. 25 lb = 3/4" x 12" and the 50 lb = 1 3/4" x 18". Well, anyway that is what the ones from Wal-Mart measure. As far a cost goes, I spent about $350 for 8 weights and the brackets. That's a lot cheaper than a dealer for 400 pounds of wheel weights. JerryG

 

[MJB]

Bird.. I had an old 1952 Case DC-3 tractor with calcium in the tires. For those not familiar with these they are about the size of a Farmall M or John Deere A. Mine had 15.5-38 rear tires which were loaded with calcium. The right side tire started to seep calcium through the valve stem while it was just sitting in the yard. I dont know exactly how long it had been leaking but it was probably not more than a few weeks. The valve stem hole was completely rusted out to about the size of a silver dollar, and that was through good thick 1952 wheel steel. /w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif You really have not lived until you have tried to wrestle a tire of this size loaded with calcium onto a trailer to take it to the shop./w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif Seeing how corroded the rim was on the inside from this tiny leak I was very concerned that if I had not noticed the leak when I did the rim may have rusted out enough for the tire to just blow right off./w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif I know I will never put calcium in a tire again. The non toxic anti-freeze is more expensive and not a heavy as the calcium but it is worth it to me./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[W5FL]

If you do not want to fill the tires with water/antifreeze (non/toxic) then I would check with several dealers about after market wheel weights. The Kubota wheel weights seem to run about $1.00 or so per pound and the after market ones were considerably less expensive. The price quoted to me was for #512 wheelweight 214 pounds for $130.00.

 

[ejb]

Re: Tipping a tractor/ calcium chloride

I may be wrong about this, but I thought you could get away w/out using tubes and the reason was the calcium chloride wasn't corrosive until it was in contact with the air, and since theoretically the tire is sealed, it wouldn't cause any corrosion, under normal circumstances...that said, I have calcium chloride in my tires, AND have tubes installed, and wouldn't recommend it any other way.

 

[ejb]

Re: Tipping a tractor/ calcium chloride

Just came across the link dealing with tractor rollover injuries...interesting reading:

http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/nasd/docs2/as25800.html

 

[MJB]

Re: Tipping a tractor/ calcium chloride

EJB.. Tires loaded with calcium are not completely filled with fluid. Typically the tire is turned so that the valve stem is at the top of the wheel and the fluid is filled up to this point. The rest of the space is then filled with compressed air to bring the tire to the correct inflation pressure. Even if there was not any air in the tube the moment the calcium leaked out and came in contact with the rim, corrosion would begin./w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif They should call that stuff "Liquid Steel Dissolver"/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif MJB

 

[W5FL]

Re: Tipping a tractor/ calcium chloride

Now you are going to just have to decide who to believe. Kubota has a whole section in their owners manual on filling tires with Calcium. Firestone has a section in their Farm Tire book on the same subject. Neither even mention anti-freeze (non/toxic) filled tires, yet all of us seem to recommend against Calcium Chloride except in Tubes and there are some reservations then. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif I would have filled my tires with Calcium Chloride if it had been available simply due to the weight available at low cost and realizing that leaks were bad. I have not had a leak in a rear tire in many years on my place, so I would have taken the chance. Now they are filled with water/antifreeze (non/toxic) and I sure wouldn't change them, but the cost is a little higher.

 

[Bird]

MJB, the neighbor I was talking about bought the old Oliver used and knew it came from up north somewhere, but he didn't know it had ballast in the tires, and the first puncture he had was while he was mowing the road right-of-way next door and when he saw a stream of what he thought was water coming out of it, he pulled up on the grass in front of my shop. It was 2 years before any grass grew back in that spot./w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif And we used the front end loader on the Kubota to put the tire & wheel on a trailer for him to take it to town and get it fixed (and of course, the B7100 I had then could not pick it up, but I was able to lift and push with the little tractor and get it on the trailer)./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Bird

 

[pdxman]

I've been checking all of my possibilities as far as adding more ballast to my tractor since I had it on its side. One being that I probably should have my tiller on when doing loader work or some other 3 pt weight (the home made concrete 3 pt sounds like good idea). I did call a tire business up here (Oregon) and they do offer calcium c @ .65 cents a gallon. They thought my tires would take about 9 gals each and add 110 lbs per tire. I do not think the tires currently have tubes. I am still debating whether or not to fill the tires. Safety is my main concern right now and I want to do whats best. The calcium chloride issue does answer some questions to my childhood in the mid-west...we used to get tractor tire tubes from farmers to use in the lakes and rivers for floating. Always used to get a hell of a rash on some. These probably had Cal ChL in them and we didn't even know about it.

 

[Bird]

pdxman, obviously calcium chloride works for ballast, and it's heavier than the water and anti-freeze, but I sure don't want that corrosive stuff in my tires.

And there's nothing wrong with the homemade concrete 3-point weight for a counterweight when using the front end loader, but I don't want something else sitting around in my way when I'm not using it, so I just put the box blade on (and that's usually sufficient, although it's pretty easy to hang more weight on it when I want to - like a couple of pieces of railroad track that I have).

Bird

 

[W5FL]

Fill them with 50% Sierra Antifreeze and 50% water. Tubeless is ok. You will get 80# a tire and that will certainly help. Ask the dealer about the aftermarket weights also if you want more ballast. Ballast in the tires helps stability significantly. Keeping the bucket low is manditory as this can raise the cg and significantly decrease stability. Weight on the 3 point will help with the loader, but to be as effective as wheel weights the cg of the implement must be no higher than the rear axle (not hard to do).

You will definately get more stability with the calcium chloride. Most don't give trouble, and if they do you can buy another set of wheels. The cost of tubes must be considered in the cost.

Bird, I have a little over 1200 pounds of ballast in each rear tire. Just think I could have more than 1600 pounds with Calcium. /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif I suspect my wheels cost a little more too. I made the mistake of asking what a full set of tires and wheels cost. The retail was $2300.00. So I just have one set. /w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif

 

[ejb]

Where is the rollover point

I've been curious lately, with all of this talk about tipping tractors...at what angle does a rollover become likely? I know it depends on the tractor, where the loader is etc, but in general, say the loader is low to the ground and you are brush-hogging across a hill, at what angle should you start to get really concerned?

I have never rolled a tractor, and don't plan on starting now, but am curious about this. I have been assuming that they probably don't tip quite as easy as they feel like they are going to, but maybe that is just wishful thinking.

On my small tractor (a 2wd 27HP yanmar with turf tires, I can go just about anywhere and never worry), I guess I am not quite as comfortable on my big rig yet, cause even crossing little hills horizontally make me nervous...

Anyone?

 

[MChalkley]

Re: Where is the rollover point

ejb - Have you seen all the posts on the tiltmeter? The manufacturer's site is http://www.tiltmeter.com, and you can buy them directly from them, too. (But if you want the #7490 with the adjustable warning beeper, be prepared to wait a few weeks, because one state's highway department just ordered 1000 of them, so they're backordered.) If you don't have one of these (with or without the beeper), I'd highly recommend it. You can then have an accurate, reproducible indication of the exact angle of the tractor. Your behind is just not a very good indication of slope. At least mine isn't.

As you acknowledged, the rollover angle differs tremendously for various tractors. I've tested mine pretty extensively to get a feel for what it'll do under worst case circumstances (with the backhoe on the tractor, which raises the center of gravity, but lets me put out the stabilizers to catch it when the angle gets too steep), so I know what mine will do under those particular circumstances. I'm a little hesitant to give numbers, though, because I'm afraid someone would mistakenly assume that their tractor would behave similarly to mine, and that could likely cause them to have an accident.

I can tell you this: Once the angle of the tractor gets to 20 degrees, extreme caution is in order, even in the best of situations, with most tractors. If you've got a load in the bucket and it's not close to the ground, you'll not likely get near 20 degrees before it rolls over.

Depending on how interested you are, I could email you some numbers for very specific test situations, but I don't know how relevant they'd be, and I would have to strenuously emphasize the "don't try this at home, for comparison purposes only, your mileage may vary" caveats.

Mark

 

[ejb]

Re: Where is the rollover point

Mark, thanks for the info...I guess I don't need detailed stats..., 20 degress is lower than I thought...I'll take a look at the tiltmeter, but I don't suppose it can really tell you when you are going to tip, only when you reach a certain angle, but that may be worthwhile anyway...thanks.

EJB

 

[Bird]

Re: Where is the rollover point

I put one of the tiltmeters on my B2710; found it can stand 18 degrees (and I think it would survive 20 degrees), but my nerves have a hard time with 15 degrees./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Bird

 

[W5FL]

Re: Where is the rollover point

I'm not sure that I could survive having a horn go off while operating on a slope. What angle do they set the horns for?

I like the idea of having a tilt meter and will eventually get two of them (after I get a metal canopy). I have about two acres on a very flat rock mound and then it drops off about 12 feet and slopes down from there. I have never even considered taking a tractor down the transistion slope since it is pretty steep to walk down. I would guess it is between 20 and 30 degrees. I also don't know what the tank dam is, but have mowed it for years, although I really don't like to. It is probably 15 degrees or so. Mowing ditches is equally dangerous. Had a wheel drop off in some soft dirt with my old Massey 2WD. I was not really sure whether the tractor would slowly lay down or not. I finally managed to get it back out, but swore my next tractor would be a 4WD. The bigger wheels on the front go across small ditches rather than getting hung in them like the 2WD did.

 

[JimBinMI]

Re: Where is the rollover point

Mark,

I would have assumed that I was going past 20 degrees on small rolling slopes on my lawn, but now I don't know, I'll have to check them out.

You know with the super agritraction feature that NH will come out with in the near future you'll be able to hang upside down it you want to...just have to make sure your seatbelt is fastened! /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

JimBinMI

We boys and our toys!

 

[Bud]

Re: Where is the rollover point

Hi Bird
Since you put a tiltmeter on your tractor, I was wondering how you put it on? I have a B2400 so everything is the same on the top of the tractor, and would hate to drill holes in the plastic, especially when I'd like to trade it in on a B2900, which I don't need.
About no stones in Texas, my son lived in Georgetown, about 25 miles north of Austin, and had to buy dirt to make a garden.
Bud

 

[MChalkley]

Re: Where is the rollover point

ejb - I suspect 20 degrees would feel a lot steeper than you think if you were on it sideways. It sure feels steep enough to me!

Mark