tiltmeter meeting

[Anonymous Poster]

Re: tiltmeter / lawyers

Rick,
You have my admiration and respect. From every indication and report, you are an honest, more than fair, industrious business man attempting to market a useful product that seems well received by the potential user, and is a "safety"
contribution in an area of well-recognized need ( tractor/heavy equipment-rollover injuries/deaths are numerous and constantly discussed in studies of agriculture/construction "hazards").

That you are meeting with more frustration than success in this worthy endeavor is a SORRY comentary on the state of affairs in this country re. "litigation".

It is a national disgrace that we have somehow permitted a situation to develop so that self-interested lawyers appealing to the worst in human nature, steer us by the elbow, lawsuit-in-hand, toward one another, promoting the idea that EVERYTHING that happens "to" us in this life is surely "someone's" fault (someone ELSE, that is) and they should be made to PAY !

I wish I could agree with Mark, that the lack of intelligence of manufacturers is the problem (that would make me less-angry). But I am certain that it is the FEAR of lawyers.. fed of course by their own lawyers... who know the ways of their-own-kind all too well.

These people have caused the slow erosion of more freedom in this land than any other group with their manipulation-for-self-gain approach to "helping" us with our legal "needs"... needs that only exist because THEY do.

My fury is quite likely making me ramble a bit... but I can't bring myself to apologize.

I am convinced Will Shakespeare had the right idea about these parasites.
I am not so convinced that my father was right (although he usually was)... He put it this way " It isn't fair to blame all lawyers for what 99% of them are like!"

With that in mind, I hereby exempt from my tirade the pitifully-few-in-number individuals of integrity and honor who have chosen that profession as being an admirable application of their gifts. We all make mistakes (I nearly made this very one, myself).

Rick, I am sure the fine people of this discussion group join me in offering all the encouragement that the appreciation of your fellows can give! I would like that sentiment to be the main thrust of this post.

But I know that my resentment at the "influence" of this segment of our society permeates my message. Quite simply, it is an OUTRAGE that a deserving person such as yourself... an exemplary "American success-story" in-the making, should find this obstacle in your path.

*(If my vigorous "free speech" is considered too-much, and deletion is to be my fate, I would like it to be a part of the record that I refrained, at a great cost in effort, from "expressing" myself by means of the string-of-profanities that fill my mind when I consider this subject.)

Rick, I wish you every success... and I do it INTENSELY!!

 

[BobT]

Re: tiltmeter / lawyers

Hi Rick,

Congratulations on your meeting with the OEM regarding implementing the Tiltmeter as a standard or optional safety item. Of course virtually every tractor owner instantly (or within a few days of riding) sees the value of this device. It is blatantly obvious.

However, bringing a device into an OEM manufacturing line takes considerable time and effort, usually 1-3 years, under favorable circumstances.

Do not become discouraged. It is really a great step forward to have a "first" meeting with these guys. Now, request meetings with all of the other OEM’s, the other “Big Three.” Develop a "plan of attack." Here are a few ideas.

Get the names and contact info for the whole slew of involved persons, from the CEO on down (company lawyers, engineers, marketing, design, etc.) about ten per company, say a total of 40-50 people.

Next, you want to refine your stats. I am pretty sure Muhammad would cooperate in devising a poll which could run for a couple of months, enough time to get 1-2,000 "votes."

Also, collect with names and addresses, all of the customer comments you receive. Ditto for cooperation here on the board.

Next, write (or hire somebody to write) two or three "newsey" articles about tractor safety, and the solution you provide (cheaply and easily). Of course, you will add your contact info in each article, and give it away to the mags free. I have a list of about 150 farm, ag and gardening related magazines and newspapers.

Finally, get the government involved! Yes! You must do it! These manufacturers will only take action if forced to. I would determine which government agency is responsible for farm safety, or product safety, and start writing them letters. You might even be able to appear before a congressional committee and give testimony about lack of safety devices on tractors. Believe me, the OEMs will look like total fools if such a committee gets hold of this info and puts it out to the news media.

Okay, I realize all of the foregoing is a lot of work, and will cost some dough. But, that is the path to follow if you are serious and determined. It CAN BE DONE. If you are persistent, you will in the end prevail. I say this because there is a true need, and you have a perfect solution.

In my opinion, it is not the fear of lawsuits or the buyer perception at all which makes the OEMs hesitate. It is only money. They don’t want to add a measly $50-80 to their cost, is all it is. You'll have to bring PUBLIC OPINION PRESSURE on them.

The only problem(s) I see is whether or not you have any kind of patent on this device. If not, forget the OEMs and put more effort into selling direct. If you do, then the OEMs will have to deal with you, probably. I say that because as any lawyer can tell you, any patent can be ignored, engineered around, etc. It happens all the time. Lawyers make a lot of fees over patent litigation ($400 an hour).

Persistence is all that counts. If you want to pursue this and believe in your product, this will ultimately be a grand success, is my prediction.

All the best,

BobT.

A Indiana Boy

 

[BobT]

Re: tiltmeter / lawyers

Hi Rick,

P.S. Get a Trademark on the name of your product, and EVERY TIME you mention it, use the mark, like this
TiltmeterTM. This way you'll start to build a Brand Name for your product, and everyone will know this is the market leading product, the premium preferred choice. Who, after all, wants the discount brand of a device that can save their life?

BobT.

P.S. You can file the TM app yourself on the Govt page. It costs about $375 filing fee is all. You can do all the paperwork, and take it to a trademark lawyer (if you want) for a final review, and save yourself a couple of grand. Go to http://www.uspto.gov/teas/index.html.

A Indiana Boy

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Re: tiltmeter / lawyers

Bob T,

My compliments and thanks for your offering Rick some very constructive and practical advice, as opposed to the morally supportive (I hope) but not very useful comment I posted.

[You sound knowledgeable about these things... makes me wonder (I'm not asking!) if you're among my "the few.. the exempt"!]

Anyway, "Attaboy" for a helpful AND encouraging post,

Larry

 

[BobT]

Re: tiltmeter / lawyers

Uh, dare I ask? What are "the few ... the exempt."

BobT.

A Indiana Boy

 

[roysallis]

Re: tiltmeter / lawyers

Rick,
Maybe you should market the Tiltmeter to state and local governments to use on their tractors. When the OEMs know that the governments are using them they may change their minds. Also, this would be a great sales opportunity if you can get some government agencies using them.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Re: tiltmeter / lawyers

roysallis,
I have a nice market with many state highway depts. (28).
If comments keep coming like they are, along with my list
of current customers, and all other pertinent information I
can gather, I believe some o.e.m. will get the idea.
All I can say is I wish you guys all worked for me. Talk
about a sales force. We could sell Air conditioners to the
eskimos. Thanks, Rick

 

[bpence]

Rick, congratulations on some great firsts steps. You may be experiencing some degree of frustration over the outcome of your meeting with the OEM, but don't give up. Follow-up relentlessly, make suggestions, offer-offer-offer-offer, and then offer to help some more. I do speak from a position of some experience, working in a marketing/sales capacity for one of the big 3 auto companies in beautiful Southeast Michigan.

We, as consumers of tractors & related stuff, agree that there is a strong value proposition for your particular tiltmeter....a lot of us have put our money down for the product and more importantly, are "completely satisfied" with it. Sell that...."completely satisfied". In today's world you can't imagine the weight those two simple words can carry. Selling to an OEM is more than one presentation to a group of engineers, who as you probably learned are only part of the decision making group. You have to remember that ROPS and seatbelts, shielding, safety switch interlocks, and other safety related items were not installed on tractors willingly by the tractor manufacturers. Part of the reason some of those things are now standard equipment is due to a plea from the consumers as well as evolving government safety standards.

In the auto industry, safety in vehicles has become a major marketing tool for all of the companies. No one has "mandated" 100% of the safety items being built into cars and trucks to day, but the consumers (you and me) have made it clear through focus groups and other customer studies that they want safe vehicles. Period.

As tractor consumers, I would dare say we want safe tractors. I'm not talking about air bags and 5 mph bumpers, I'm suggesting things that help us operate the tractors in what I would call a "safe mode". To me, a tiltmeter is no different than a sticker on the visor of my Ford Explorer that warns me of the hazards of certain types of manuvers with an SUV type vehicle. I still have the choice to do as I choose, but I have been warned. Why is a tiltmeter or other safety oriented device any different?

I would recommend you ask the OEM to poll tractor customers about possible safety enhancements to their machines, including items like tiltemeters that don't necessarily prevent things from happening, but promote safer operation. Offer to help them do it. And not just their brand customers; they need feedback from a variety of tractor brand consumers. Let's be realistic, all manufacturers use focus groups, consumer test groups, in-market product reviews, and other means to gather data on product development and enhancement. No manufacturer wants to get into the nitty gritty safety stuff with customers if they don't have to, but if a company decides to get out in front on something like this, the right marketing approach can give them an edge on competition.

They talk about liability. Ask how many lawsuits are pending because a tractor rolled over, the operator was seriously injured, and was NOT wearing the seatbelt in conjunction with the ROPS. The lawsuits are there, I would guess in the product liability area. Good attorneys can easily move a jury from negligent operation to product design or flaw.

It's folks like me (and many of the folks on this board), the baby boomers, who will drive where the compact tractor industry goes over the next decade or two. They can choose to provide us what we want, or not. As a demographic group, we will get what what we want. Pretty demanding aren't we? That's fact, not hype. Have the folks you met with ask their marketing department who's buying their compact tractors and what kind of profile they have on the typical customer. Trust me on this one. We, the consuming generation, are the drivers here. If Kubota, John Deere, New Holland and all the other companies choose to listen to us, we'll buy their products. If not, someone will build the product we want......and we'll buy it. We're going to demand more than just a compact tractor. We're going to demand a safe and secure compact tractor.

OK, that's my 2 or 3 cents worth. A "completely satisfied" tiltmeter customer.

Bob Pence

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Re: tiltmeter / lawyers

Hi Bob,
The reference was to a statement in my original "tiltmeter/lawyer" post.

There are a "few" (possibly!) lawyers with character and integrity...who deserve to be "exempt" from my blanket condemnation of the breed.

This gives you the "flavor" of my post,... and explains my complimenting your "more useful" e-mail to Rick.

Larry

 

[BobT]

Re: tiltmeter / lawyers

Many things I am, but a lawyer is not one of them.

All the best,

BobT.

A Indiana Boy

 

[Anonymous Poster]

bpence,
Thank you for your EXTREMELY usefull comments and ideas.
I have already started using some of it. AND I already have
a new name to follow up with at the o.e.m. Many more to come
I hope. I get so tired and discouraged sometimes, but you
guys never fail to refuel the fires. TALLY HO. Rick

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Re: tiltmeter / lawyers

BobT
And thank you sir. The ball is rolling.
Rick

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Re: tiltmeter

Gee, I didn't want to be the only person not to comment on Tiltmeters. Rick, Don't forget to mention to the OEM folk that at least one production SUV (Nissan Patrol???) comes with a dash mounted clinometer (tiltmeter) to show degree of lean left-right and instructions of how to use it (only when stopped so acceleration effects are elliminated). Looks like an artificial horizon instrument out of an aircraft. So apparently some manufacturers aren't afraid to risk arming users with a safety device and advice on how to use it safely. Has Nissan gone out of business lately?

Good luck,

Patrick

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Re: tiltmeter

Hi Patrick,
Excellent point!!!!! This will be added to my list of
reasons for the o.e.m.s Once I get all of this info.
compiled I hope to be able to put it into a professional
format, that is simple but to the point. Anyone out there
good at this ????? I might even send info. to a few
magazines as an editorial. Maybe some will print. If any of
the big o.e.m.s see it, it might help. I might start
contacting a few today, to see if they might print opinions
shown here, and direct them to this site. Again, anyone good
at writing the article ????? Or I will write it and see if
Muhammad would let me post it for you all to review.
Meanwhile, PLEASE keep the opinions coming. The more ammo
the better. I have had outstanding support here, but there
are alot of members that have not given an opinion. They
are all appreciated. Maybe together, we can get the big
guys attention. To be fair, if anyone does not think there
is a need for the tiltmeters, I need to know this also.
Rick

 

[MChalkley]

Re: tiltmeter

Rick - This is off topic somewhat, but I'll tell you what I'd love to see, though it's probably a project you'll want to shelve until you get through the current marketing barriers that we've been talking about. The last thing you need is an expensive R&D project right now. Anyway:

I'd love to see a small waterproof "black box" sensor module that could be mounted anywhere containing side-to-side and front-to-back sensors in it. It would have either an integrated beeper or outputs for one. There would also be a waterproof gauge module with dual LED gauges and 2 knobs or setscrews to adjust the beeper warning angles. I've got some other ideas about it, but that's the whole concept in a nutshell. TiltMeter II! E-TiltMeter!

MarkC

 

[bpence]

Re: tiltmeter

Rick, another avenue you may want to pursue, if you haven't already is to, what I would call, quasi-mass market to the tractor dealer body. If you hit the major tractor manufacturer websites you can get dealer locations and addresses for particular states. Create a small data base for each brand that'll allow you to generate a personalized letter for each particular dealership. It might be worth a mailing to Kubota, JD, NH dealers describing and offering your products to them. There would be a definable cost associated with this so you wouldn't have to blow your total marketing budget and you might even consider including a sample tiltmeter so they can touch the product and begin to see the value.

In the auto industry, many of the options you see on vehicles today began as dealer or other supplier installed aftermarket items. Tractor dealers also sell a lot of "stuff" and this is one of those things that could have a dealer logo imprinted on it and be used as a "thank you" for buying from me, a tractor birthday mail-out, used in a sales display in the sales area or on the parts counter, or probably 100 different uses.

Again, from a marketing perspective you could define the cost associated with this initiative (important) and could easily measure (real important) the take rate on the offer to various manufacturer's tractor dealers. Maybe try it with a "test" group of each manufacturer's dealers in selected states. Heck, you might even find dealers that install it as a dealer installed accessory on all of their stock unit tractors.

Just a thought. Use it if it works for you.

Bob Pence

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Re: tiltmeter

MarkC,
Hi Mark, I do have a small black box switch module now,
but it is for switching a circuit side to side only. I have
experimented with a dual axis module, but it is not yet
perfected. Do you want to be the one to test one?????
It works independently from the indicator, and can be
mounted anywhere. However it has a small green l.e.d. light
that comes on with power. Red l.e.d. comes on when beeper
comes on. It will also control a relay that can turn on/off
circuits. Not sure if adjustable is feasable yet. Don't want
someone to remove it and put on something different, or sell
the tractor and new operator not know how to adjust and get
hurt. The one I have now is adjustable, but takes a few
minutes to adjust. Will send one to you to test when done
if you like. No problem if you would rather not.
Thanks for your ideas and help. Rick

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Re: tiltmeter

Bob,
Again, an excellent idea from you guys. I will try to start
on this idea soon also. Budget is not as big a problem as
time and knowledge of this %$#&*)! computer. Thanks, Rick

 

[MChalkley]

Re: tiltmeter

Rick - What kind of display are you using to show the degree of tilt? Or does it not send signals to a display at all, like the current single-axis beeper model I have? Would I be interested in testing such a module? You betcha! As long as you think I'm qualified... (I could maybe come up with some scenarios for more extreme usage of my tractor, just for you.)

What I'd really love to see at a future date is the LED meter type readout of degree of tilt in both directions, i.e. a totally electronic tiltmeter.

MarkC