Tiller Tiller

ddl · Feb 15, 2002

I agree with you, but would you put the same tiller or larger one on a tractor with 15 pto horsepower. I an not sure what the PTO hoprsepower of a 7300 or 7500 but I bet is a lot smaller than the B2400 or 2410. What I was responding to was the statement to get a tiller wider than your ttractor tires, the problem that I see is you should get the size rated for your tractor not buying onr wider than your tractor, for the horsepower will be too small. The other part was trying to tell someone that they can over size the tiller and have no problem with out knowing the soil conditions. Sometimes I wish I had a klarger tiller, but than I get into someone yard and the one I have is too big. I just talked to a kubota tractor dealer and he told me he would never sell tiller larger than the manual suggests, because he wants repeat business and he has to look hinself in the mirror every day.

Dan L

Knight9 · Feb 15, 2002

Dan,

I'll do my best here.../w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

would you put the same tiller or larger one on a tractor with 15 pto horsepower According to the manufacturer you can put that tiller on a tractor with 12 hp (I wouldn't as I'm thinking it would be under powered or the slip clutch would be slipping a lot!) See attached picture from their site.

I an not sure what the PTO hoprsepower of a 7300 or 7500 but I bet is a lot smaller than the B2400 or 2410
The 2410 has 18 HP at the PTO and the 7500HSD has 16 HP. The 7500DT has 17HP.

he told me he would never sell tiller larger than the manual suggests Very wise for a Kubota salesman!!! However, as a Kubota owner, I'm of the opinion that I need the tool that suites my needs. In my case I wanted a larger tiller and hunted around until I found one that was rated within my HP category. I also purchased a larger rotary cutter than the 4' one the manual says to stick with. I'm pretty sure that I'm not wrecking my 2410 /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

I certainly agree that people should be advised to consider their circumstances when purchasing implements. I bought both of mine knowing that there would be a little more "hard work" early that may require smaller or slower passes (first cut of the pasture, first till of the garden etc). However, once I'm maintaining the larger implements will help make that chore easier and faster.

Thanks for your response.
Kevin

Bird · Feb 15, 2002

several things you are missing, the biggest part is that the soil type is propably different 

Nope, I didn't miss anything. Type of soil, moisture content, whether there are rocks, etc. will certainly affect the quality of work the tiller does, speed at which you travel, and number of passes required to get the the quality you want. It does not affect my opinion that nearly everyone will be happier with a tiller as wide as their rear tires.

The tires of the tractor was even going in revrse trying to hold the tiller pushing the tractor

???OK. That I'd love to see./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif I've run my tiller on dry clay that was so hard it only scratched the surface. The tiller can bounce up and down, get noisy, etc. and I don't like it and don't do it much. But as far as pushing the tractor . . . well, I'd heard of that so I did quite a bit of experimenting with a 40" tiller on a B7100 (tiller the same width as the rear tires). If I put the tractor in neutral, the tiller would push it forward (but since tractors are equipped with brakes - certainly no danger), with the tractor in high range, 2WD, the tiller could push the tractor forward intermittently depending on the condition of the ground, and in low range, 4WD, it wouldn't push it forward at all. Now I have a B2710 and the same tiller offset to cover my rear track. I till in mid-range, 2WD, and the tiller does not push the tractor forward, so I tried high range and it still does not push the tractor forward in the garden, but I haven't tried it on other terrain, as I did with the B7100. So I'm serious in that I'd really like to see what you did.

the biggest problem is the stress you are putting on the tractors three point system by over weight

I never said to get an overweight tiller; I said to get one as wide as, or the next size wider than, your rear tires. Now I don't know how you till, or whether you do, but I lower my 3-point all the way (float) so the 3-point is carrying no weight while tilling. The weight concern is for lifting and transporting the tiller, and if it's excessively heavy, the front end of the tractor may be light and cause a steering problem (easily corrected with front weights or by leaving the FEL on the tractor). Certainly, you could put too much weight on any 3-point, but I don't know of a tiller of the size I recommended that would be too heavy for the 3-point. Obviously, we're talking about different size tillers for different size tractors, and any tiller I've seen that was no more than a foot or so wider than the tractor's rear tires would not be too heavy (and I'll admit I haven't seen every tiller in the world so maybe such a tiller exists).

You say you used the tiller for four years

A little over four years on a B7100 and now more than 2 years on a B2710. Since the B2710 has an outside rear tread width of about 54 inches, I wish I had a 54" to 62" tiller now, but since this one still works very well, I just won't spend the money to buy another one.

how many acreas did you till in that period that was not yours

I have no idea. Besides my current garden of about 9,000 sq. ft., I've also regularly tilled a neighbor's garden that is slightly smaller. Another neighbor had a bull dozer come in and remove a bunch of big cedar trees from his yard, and then had two truckloads of sandy loam dumped in the yard. I spread that dirt, tilled it in, leveled, etc. I sure tilled up a lot of tree roots and sometimes the tiller bounced pretty bad on them. I don't like that, but I've never had any damage or a single repair to the tiller. I've also tilled my brother-in-law's garden (he had lots of smooth round rocks that I don't have), and I had a neighbor hire me to till all around a house he had just bought and unknown to either of us there was a brick sidewalk under about an inch of dirt. I tilled up a lot of bricks. Four other neighbors have hired me to till their gardens, and I don't know how much tilling I've done at my brother's place. After we removed the old willow trees from a dried up pond, I tilled the whole bottom of the pond (more tree roots). And I've used the tiller many times just to break up hard dry clay so when I moved it to where I wanted it with the FEL, I could spread it easier. Now the tines on my tiller definitely show some wear/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif, but nothing has ever broken. On one single heavy clay garden that was far too wet, I was able to bog the tractor down and had to raise the tiller slightly to keep from stalling the engine on the B7100, but that was only in one little corner of one garden one day.

Now of course, I've either used or watched some other tillers in operation. A former next door neighbor had one (I don't remember the size, but it was definitely wider than his rear tires) and my cousin uses a 62" tiller on his TC29D, and one fellow in the area has a really big tiller behind his big John Deere (I don't remember the size for sure but think he said it was 8').

What size does the tractor manual suggest for a tiller. Why do you think they may suggest a certain size

I suppose I assume (and know that will be wrong at times) that people have read their manual, and if they want to go strictly by the manual, then there would be no reason to ask on this or any other forum. I know that Kubota manuals are quite conservative, and so does my Kubota dealer from whom I bought the tiller. Of course, one reason is because they know a novice may put an implement on that is so heavy when he picks it up that the front end is too light to steer. But if anyone wants to stay within the manual recommendations, that's fine, but if they ask for opinons, I usually give them mine and they're certainly free to ignore it if they wish, and no hard feelings at all if they ignore and/or disagree with my opinion.

But since I've been married to the same woman for nearly 37 years and raised two daughters, I don't feel that I really need you to tell me how dumb I am; they've always taken care of that./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif/w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

ddl · Feb 16, 2002

don't mean to insult you at all, just be open to actually learn

Dan L

Boondox · Feb 16, 2002

A tiller has long been on my tractor wish list, but my wife, who is a certified organic gardener, doesn't believe in them! /w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif Her idea of building up the soil is to confine the chickens on that area for a couple of years till all the seeds are gone and the ground fertilized, then bury the place in mulch hay to a depth of a foot, planting her seeds directly in the mulch. My way is to tear up everything in my path with a tiller, then plant. But it's her garden, not mine. Maybe I can still justify a tiller for weed control.

Pete

Bird · Feb 16, 2002

Pete, that's interesting. When you apply the "mulch" hay, does that mean it's been finely chopped or "mulched" (or composted) to the texture of soil? And how soon after applying it does she plant seed in it, how deep does she put the seed, etc.? I'm thinking if it were just hay, it would be too loose to hold moisture, or to keep the seed from falling on to the bottom. I also wonder what kind of hay. I used some hay and found it had too many grass seeds in it; had to fight grass that year in the garden, so I haven't used any hay since; just straw. I have one neighbor in the area who had hothouses and he and his wife were certified organic farmers until they both had heart attacks awhile back (she got a pacemaker and he had bypass surgery), so they got out of it. I'm not a certified organic gardener, but just haven't used any chemicals of any kind on my garden so far. However, since I quit raising rabbits and therefore lost my source of the best fertilizer I ever found, I may have to start using some chemical fertilizers in the future. And if the grasshoppers are as bad as some are predicting for the coming year, I may even have to use insecticides if I want a garden.

My radishes and turnips are up, and I finally got my potatoes and beets planted today, and tilled a neighbor's garden so they can plant potatoes tomorrow. And I bought my onion sets today and hope to get them in the ground tomorrow.

When I had the narrower tractor, I used the tiller between the rows all summer as a cultivator so I didn't have to use a hoe. And I use either oat or wheat straw for mulch around my tomato plants, pepper, and cabbage plants, then till it in when the season is over.

I was driving the tool truck all the past week, and one of the places we call on is my Kubota dealer. He told me he has sold my '95 B7100 four times./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif He sold it to me new in '95, then I traded it in on the B2710 in August '99. He then sold it to an equipment rental company and they used it for a rental unit for about a year, and traded it back in on a new one with power steering. Next he sold it to a guy who bought it as a Christmas present for his wife (delivered it on 12/17/00 and hid it in a barn). She used it nearly a year, then when her horse threw her and busted up her shoulder, she traded it back in on a new BX2200 with FEL and MMM to get power steering. And now he's sold it again recently./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif And he said it still only has a little over 700 hours on it, and of course, is in great condition./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif No telling how much money he's made off that one tractor./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

Chuck52 · Feb 16, 2002

My turn!

I went and got my KK 60" tiller this afternoon. Now the story: We just got back from taking our youngest to tour a university he thought he might like. It's about 500 miles away, and we drove there Thursday, taking nine hours for the trip because there basically is no good way to get there from here. Then we spent all day Friday touring the school and drove a couple hours that evening so we wouldn't have to drive all day today. The dash lights were out on the van, which makes driving at night something of an adventure. We drove about five hours today, getting home about 1PM. I have this incredible head cold or something...anyway my head is completely stopped up, and that always affects my judgement. What, you might ask, does all this have to do with tillers? Ah Ha! As I say, my judgement is somewhat suspect when my head is stopped up, and a few days of driving doesn't help either. So....I was worried that the store would sell the last tiller, or I'd miss the sale, or something. /w3tcompact/icons/tongue.gif So, I schlep myself into town to get my tiller in my good ole F150!/w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif I get to the store, and they're more than happy to sell me the tiller and load it in my truck. When the forklift gently sets it down, longways, in the truck bed, I notice that the rear tires get significantly flatter....good thing they're new! As I'm slowly driving home, I remember my good friend Bill's offer of his trailer, "Because it'll be lots easier to unload than from the truck." Bottom line: I now have a 700lb tiller in the back of my truck. I got no FEL. I got no boom pole. I'm now having a couple of beers and will contemplate how to unload my new toy tomorrow. My tractor, BTW, is an antique Kubota L210. In the event I am able to get the tiller off my truck and mount it on the tractor, I will report back to my fellow TBNers how this combination works. I know I'm gonna have to put some weights on the front end. The front end almost levitates when I lift my 5' finishing mower, which weighs maybe 500lbs.

I will report my progress tomorrow, or maybe my son will send pictures of the old man under the tiller!/w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif

Chuck

Bird · Feb 16, 2002

Very good, Chuck./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif But since that tiller is obviously far too heavy for you to unload, much less use on your tractor, just drive on down to Texas and I'll unload it for you and put a 366# loader in the truck in its place./w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

Chuck52 · Feb 17, 2002

Bird, I was fishing for someone to offer to come here to help unload. /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif Besides, it ain't gonna be too heavy. I'll let my son drive the tractor while I sit on the bumper....more than enough weight! /w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif

Actually, the guy who helped me load it said I could probably just pull it off with my tractor and it is so bomb-proof it probably wouldn't hurt it. I think I'll be a bit more gentle than that! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif I plan to use a ramp and slide it off with the tractor.

I've got very good dirt. No rocks. No roots. In fact, I'm having some additions put on the house and the soil they excavated is all top-soil quality. They had to go down a ways to find clay to set the footings on. Now I've got several cubic yards of good top soil to use for other things...really wish I had the FEL. Anyway, I think my soil conditions are such that I can use this tiller with my tractor even if I am pushing the envelope.

BTW, the previous occupant of this place gardened like Pete was describing...no till and mulch. She left me a heck of a garden spot. As with your experience, I mulched last year around my tomatoes with straw, and got lots of grass. I assume it was wheat straw, but it was still full of seeds.

If I have trouble getting the tiller off my truck, the fellow I bought this place from lives right behind me. He's a retired farmer/equipment dealer and he has more toys than you can imagine. The grass I now mow with a 5' finishing mower, he worked with one of those setups with three six-foot mowers, so he was doing 18 foot strips. If I ask him for help he may show up with a crane! /w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif

Chuck

TerryinMD · Feb 17, 2002

ddl,

I just read through this thread and as usual the TBN membership shows their true colors - the trading of information based on experience and common sense and moderation.

I will reserve my comments and thoughts on this remark - don't mean to insult you at all, just be open to actually learn. /w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif But it does seem somewhat contradictory.

Terry

Boondox · Feb 17, 2002

Chuck -- Do you have an embankment somewhere you could back the trusty old Ford up to? In the days before my FEL I used to back up to a high spot and drag the heavy stuff right out where it didn't have so far to fall.

If you don't have a high spot, I'd suggest buying an FEL, heaping up some dirt... /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

Glad to hear that heavy mulch no till method actually works.

Pete

bgott · Feb 17, 2002

Back the truck into a ditch, use the tractor to pull the tiller out of the truck and then use the tractor to pull the truck out of the ditch.

Steelfan · Feb 17, 2002

My wife, and I got a great laugh out of this one. She said it sounds like something I would do. Thanks for the idea. Kent

Bird · Feb 17, 2002

it ain't gonna be too heavy

That's too bad, Chuck. Thought maybe I'd found a trade for the size I want./w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif I suspect you'll enjoy it.

I assume it was wheat straw, but it was still full of seeds

That would not be good. I got oat straw from one neighbor and then wheat straw from another neighbor and so far there hasn't appeared to be any seed in either, so I've been very pleased with both.

Chuck52 · Feb 17, 2002

Dang bgott, I read your suggestion too late. I have a fine ditch for that technique, and instead of pulling the truck out after off-loading the tiller, I could have just left it there as part of the bridge I need to build! /w3tcompact/icons/tongue.gif

In fact, I used my compost pile as an un-loading dock. Turned out to be no biggie. My son and I levered the tiller in it's skeleton crate up enough to slide some plywood under it. Then we just slid it off onto the nice soft pile and drove the truck out from under it. We were then able to wrestle it to the ground and prop it up in good position to hook it up to the tractor. Turns out my old L210 lifts it without too much groaning. I think the lift points on this tractor may be closer than the average new tractors, which helps with the lifting. Unfortunately it also means I have to shorten the pto shaft by about 3". Doesn't look like too big a deal; should be able to do it with my hacksaw. Anyway, I've got it all oiled up and greased, so I'm gonna shorten the shaft and try it out. The garden spot is probably too wet for good tilling, but I'll make a pass or two just to see how it goes. I may have to get some paint. The KK yellow clashes rather badly with Kubota orange. As a Volunteer, I think I'll go with orange!

Thanks for all the suggestions. Nice to know I did it about like most folks would have.

Chuck

Chuck52 · Feb 17, 2002

OK. Three hours later, and I've shortened the pto shaft, tilled my small garden and also some pretty deep ruts the excavator left in moving dirt from here to there. So far, the only times I blew black smoke (or rather the L210 did...I blow green smoke occasionally) were when I was going along the edge of the garden tilling up really thick sod, and when I was smoothing out the ruts, which were also through thick sod. I didn't adjust the depth setting on the tiller, which is set at the center hole in a set of five (I think). When it started laboring, I lifted it a bit with the 3ph. I could use some more weight on the front of the tractor, but I can get by with it as is. I have front wheel weights, and I'll probably rig up something to add 100lbs or so to the front.

BTW, before cutting the pto shaft I did a search and found Bird telling someone or other how easy it was. I think he said "like cutting butter". Must be that Texas butter. Missouri butter is quite a bit harder. I went through three hacksaw blades cutting the two shafts. Of course Bird was talking about using a sawsall, and I was using my hacksaw (and I buy cheap blades), but that shouldn't make much difference, right? /w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif I spent more time cutting the pto shaft than tilling, but it looks like I can do what I need to do with this setup.

Chuck

Bird · Feb 17, 2002

Chuck, if I had to cut one now, I'd sure use my air saw, but at the time I did it on the tiller, I didn't have the air saw; just used an old fashioned manual hacksaw and didn't even wear out one blade./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif Actually, I was very surprised at how easy it was to cut. Maybe Bush Hog uses softer metal for their drive shafts than the King Kutter does./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif Of course, I also had the shaft in a vise on the workbench, so it was held firmly in place. Don't know whether you did or whether you were just holding it and sawing, but that could make a difference, too./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

At least I'll bet you're not as tired as I am after planting 12 bundles of onion sets this morning./w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif

Chuck52 · Feb 17, 2002

Bird, I did have it in a vise, but I was trying to be gentle with it and not distort it so much it might warp below my cut. Anyway, I couldn't lean into it as well as I should have. The @#$% cheap blades were most of the problem however. You get what you pay for, or at least sometimes you do.....well maybe not too often anymore....but you sure don't get much cheap!

If someone hasn't already done it, a good invention would be a simple device to plant onion sets while standing. All that bending over does me in real quick. I wonder if you couldn't drop them down a piece of pvc and then poke them in with a padded rod. I usually just push them in with my fingers...no need to dig a hole if the soil is nice and fluffy like I'll make it with my new toy. /w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif The problem would then be to figure some kind of manifold to load it up so you wouldn't have to pull the rod all the way out. Or I guess you could dig a furrow, use the tube to position the bulbs, and then rake the soil over them. That might work with beans and other big seeds too. Am I a genius or a reinventor of the wheel? Anyway, I sure hate the bending stuff. Those were the bare onion sets and not the slips, right?

Chuck

Anonymous Poster · Feb 17, 2002

Titanic

I have a 7500 brochure in front of me and it lists in the
implement chart a BL52C 49"(1250mm) tiller. I'd say the 50"
is OK.

Bird · Feb 18, 2002

Chuck, I've tried a number of ways of planting those onions and concluded there ain't no good way./w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif I always use the onion slips (just don't hear them called that around here). Never have tried the little bulbs. The ones I got this year are some of the largest, best looking plants I've gotten. The crate said they were bundled (with a rubber band) with 60 plants per bundle, but of course you actually get quite a few more than that I think. I've been just tilling the row, stretch my string to mark it, then get down on my hands and knees and stick them in the ground one at a time (always wind up with either too few to finish the last row or a little too many). So this time I ran the tiller down the rows, stretched my string, then with my little "V" bladed hoe make a little trench and just laid them out in the trench. Then I went back and went down the rows standing them up and pulling the dirt in on each side. That worked faster than anything else I've tried. The soil tilled quite well, but was just a little damper than I would prefer. Of course, I plant them only about 2" apart, and when they start to grow, we'll pull about every other one for green onions and to let the others have room to grow.