Tiller PTO shaft

[OhioGuy]

I recently purchased a Yanmar 1303 tiller to use with my 1220. Everything is about what I expected with a little hitch. The PTO shaft is only engaging about two of the six inches on the splined shaft and if I add a 4" PTO extension the shaft is at too extreme an angle when raised to rotate.

It looks like I'd be OK if I only engage the PTO when the tines are just about to contact the soil and as the tiller is lowered, I get more PTO shaft coupling.

Should I be looking at some other options?

Thanks,
Curt

 

[Inspector507]

I'd get a longer PTO shaft and cut it to fit right.

 

[Bird]

Curt, I'm not sure I understand your problem. Are you talking about only a 2" overlap in the two pieces of the driveshaft (in which case, I'd agree that you need a new driveshaft of the proper length) or are you talking about the driveshaft not going all the way onto the splined PTO output shaft on the tractor? If so, are you pressing the little pin or pulling the collar back (depending on which type of driveshaft you have) in order to slide it all the way on?

 

[jimg]

Is the female portion of the drive line deep enough to fit fully over the PTO? If so whats obstructing it? If the connector is split then the bolts need to be removed before itll fit all the way on.

 

[OhioGuy]

Thanks for the suggestions, let me try to explain a little better.
The Yanmar tillers use the quick connect option on both ends of the PTO shaft, in other words, the button is depressed and the shaft is slid on the tractors PTO untill it locks, and the same quick connect is on the tiller end of the PTO. When I use the four inch PTO extension and raise the tiller, when turning the shaft by hand there isn't adequate clearance in the universal, but the splined PTO shafts are fully engaged. When I remove the 4" PTO extension, the universals have clearance (just barely) but only when the tiller is almost down on CONCRETE. It will be 8" inches lower when I'm tilling. I'll post a couple of pictures tonight, I'm sure that will illustrate the problem more clearly.

I run a 4 ft brushhog and 5 ft finish mower without any PTO problems. The distance from the tractor to implement PTO connection is probably twice as long on either of those.
I'm already running 32" lower arms, can't get it out there much further.

I'm even more concerned because of the lack of a shearpin on this setup, in reading the Yanmar posts, it was common for them to have the quick disconnects on both ends of the PTO and no shearpin. so when I hit the king of all boulders what happens? Yea, I know, something gives! /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Good thing I've got a month before it's dry enough to till in NE Ohio /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[jimg]

Right. I just got a tiller and was surprised how much closer it is that my other attachments. I think I'd spring for a new drive line which facilitiates either a clutch or shear bolt. In that way you get to cut it to a length that fits your machinery and you also get some protection too. Im sure a new drive line is less expensive than a tiller or transmission work. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[OhioGuy]

Here are a couple of pix that show the problem. I could resolve the poor mating of the PTO by lengthening the spline side of the shaft (Weld some bar stock inline) or I might just give it a go the way it sits. Its too bad the tiller side of the PTO is splined and won't accomodate a shearpin.
It's always somethin /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

If I put a slip clutch inline, the universal angle increases, thats a bad thing! If I hit the King of all boulders without a shearpin or slipclutch, thats a really bad thing. What to do?

 

[OhioGuy]

Here's another picture.
Curt

 

[AMP762]

I have this problem with my Mitsu. and a JD tiller, if you shorten the top link it will help both.



Don't worry,nothings going to be alrite

 

[sweettractors]

I am another in favor of making the toplink shorter to help this situation--Ken Sweet
Sweet Farm Equipment LLC *New 48 to 90 inch "First Choice" roto tillers in stock*

 

[Egon]

Looking at the photos it would appear there are design and geometry problems.

I think the tiller is too close the tractor, thus the short shaft and steep angles. At present my biggest concern would be damage to the tractor pto when in the fully raised position. IE. it could exert a linear force on the pto.

Perhaps an extension to the lower links would enable the installation of a longer driveshaft and better angles.

Egon

 

[jimg]

I dont see how shortening the top link solves the problem. It would just move the problem to the fully down position. That is, if you shorten the top link in the fully up position you solve the problem until the tiller is dropped to working height. At that point the problem resurfaces b/c the tiller shaft is pointing down at an acute angle. So you have to mess w/ the top link before lifting and dropping the tiller. That seems like a huge hassel. So, what am I missing?

"When I remove the 4" PTO extension, the universals have clearance (just barely) but only when the tiller is almost down on CONCRETE. It will be 8" inches lower when I'm tilling. I'll post a couple of pictures tonight, I'm sure that will illustrate the problem more clearly. "
Seems something more is needed esp since theres so much travel in in this setup.

Ohioguy:
Have you compared this tiller for size etc w/ others? Seems hard to believe it could be so wrong.

 

[kensfarm]

Looking at the picture.. are your lower 3pt arms new.. they actually look too long for that tractor. I agree w/ the others that your top link needs to be shortened.. this will raise the back end of the tiller and the angle of the PTO won't be so great.

 

[OhioGuy]

Thanks for the suggestions, shortening the toplink also gives me more PTO mating. I've got the current link as short as it will go, maybe I'll replace the toplink temporarily with a piece of chain to see how much it improves the angle.

OK, what I should have done was started with locating a manual for the tiller or going to Kingcutter or any other manufacturers website and downloaded a manual for any tiller. But you know, sometimes it's more fun to just go in blind /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Anyway, with all the help I'm getting, I'm making progress.

This is a great Bulletin Board, Thanks!!

Curt

 

[sweettractors]

"By George" I think you may on to something--The bar codes are still on the arms and they do look to be too far behind the tires--I remind my customers to set the stop on your lift control lever on the up side as well as the down side--I have seen more blown u-joints from being lifted too high as opposed to going too low--Ken Sweet
Sweet Farm Equipment LLC *New "First Choice Grooming Mowers and Roto Tillers in stock*

 

[rambler]

You have 2 things working against you - non-standard lift arms, and non-standard pto shaft.

Also this tractor appears to have a very low pto - most tractors have the opposite problem, where the shaft compresses as you raise the implement, goes to max extention when you have the implement totally lowered. You will have the opposite problem, which is what is confusing some folks.

You mention you have 'the longest' lower arms, so I spuspect you are not at the 'right' length. Changing the bottom can have unexpected results - your 3pt now lifts higher which is heck on pto shafts. It also changes the geometry of the upper arm, which creates the bad angle (the tiller is hangine down in back) that we see in the picture. This is your biggest issue.

You have to do what you have to do to make the tiller raise level, parallel to the ground, at all times. A new upper arm is probably the cheapest, you should be able to find a shorter one. This will be perhaps the easiest fix, so I would really persue this - might need to order a top link if nothing local from Valu-Bilt or the like. With your tractor you will run into this issue again, might as well be prepared.

You really need to limit how high the tiller raises. My 1720NH came with the 3pt arms in the top hole, so it raised very high. Niffty! Until I put the snow blower on it, then it raised so high the pto knuckles clattered. No good. (My snow blower was already modified, see below.) The vertical arms that hold the 3pt on my tractor have 3 holes, and I had to lower it a hole. Your 3pt seems to lift from the bottom, not pull up with rods, so don't know how you adjust this?

I used to have my snow blower on a bigger tractor. I could not make the pto work - angle too steep when lowered, and as I pulled the 3pt up, the pto shaft would compress until it hit. Just no room for any workable adjustment on the top link.

So, I had some stiff strap iron straps cut & drilled, bolted them on to my snow blower where the pins bolted on, and this extened my lower links on the blower - which is where the real problem was. Only added about 2" (moved the pins on my blower 2" farther out), but made a world of difference.

I could get some pics if this is clear as mud, but I'm kinda infrequent here so you better PM me as a reminder....

--->Paul

 

[OhioGuy]

Hi Paul,
I got a lot of different suggestions and opinions on this, they were helpful. My next plan was to substitute a piece of chain for the toplink and see how much a shorter toplink improved angles. I also realized after doing a bit of research that the lower arms on this tractor were probably 26 or 28 inches, not the 32 inch I'm running. The longer arms were all that was available at TSC when I bought the brushhog and they worked fine for that longer PTO shaft. I'm gonna reread your post when I get home and see if any light come on /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

When I look at the shroud on the tiller it's not completely clear to me where level is.

Have you ever been in a contorted position and tried removing a bolt/nut by turning the wrong way, that's the way my brain is perceiving the 3 pt at times. Up is down, left is right.

Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment. I may be the poster boy for that one!!

 

[OhioGuy]

Well, I bought this three point setup on Ebay for $145. It's off a 1320 so it should be the same as the original equipment. I'm pretty confident it's going to solve the three point geometry problems. I attached a picture. I'll post again after I get it installed, thanks for all the suggestions.
Curt