tic, tic, tic.....bang!

[Tractor_Dawg]

I have an International 544 (68) that is making some strange noises. We haven't run the tractor much the past few years but it always cranks right up and runs great. About two weeks ago I was bush hogging a friend of mines property and I hit a stump I didn't see. Well, it appears the clutch on the hog was too tight and it broke the bottom bearing on the blade shaft which made the blades run like a poorly hung ceiling fan.

That however, is not my problem. Since bringing the tractor back to my place, everytime I go into reverse there is a loud ticking noise (I say ticking because I don't know exactly how to describe it). It is coming from the rear end (directly beneath the seat) and sounds like metal hitting metal. The noise increases with speed. Also, it is loud in reverse, but I swear I'm hearing something going forward just real faint.

I'm quite sure the jolt it took from the bushhog caused it, but I have no clue what to do. I would normally take it to the mechanic, but I need this thing working yesterday. Anything you guys could suggest would be extremely appreciated.

Thanks

 

[GaryK]

Sounds like you might have chipped a tooth in the trans

 

[SPIKER]

sounds like maybe a took on a gear problem? not sure as I'm not aware of the internal workings of the IH anyhow if it is increasing with speed then it probalby is a ring gear which either sheared off or bent and is causing a wear/ of the other meshing gears on pinion or such. like I said not may going to be able to help you with this problem but will give advice on WHAT to look for untill you get inside no one will KNOW what it was. maybe try disengauging the PTO to see if it helps or not... but in my thinking that if it is loud in revers then more than likely in drive gears and has little or nothing to do wiht pto...

Mark M
/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[Tractor_Dawg]

Wouldn't a gear problem cause a hesitation in motion or some kind of jerk? The tractor runs smoothly (no hesitation) which leads me to believe it may not be a gear problem.

Spiker, I checked out your website. That's a nice place you have. When can I come deer hunting?

 

[Darren]

You might sense a hesitation in the direction you travel when hearing the noise. Add my vote for a chipped gear tooth.

 

[JimR]

My old Ford 8N had rivets holding the ring gear to the chuck assembly. I remember hearing noises in the rear end on that beast once. I pulled the rear end only to find that half of the rivets had sheared off and the other half were stretched out. I replaced the rivets with hardened bolts. Something is bound to stretch, twist or give out anytime you hit something that will stop your tractor. I would pull it apart before you do severe damage to it. I also cracked one of the spider gears in the rear end once. That made a clicking sound.

 

[GRUMPA]

Like most said, it sounds like a broken gear. I've worked on many of transmissions in my life (MANUAL) from 3 speeds to the very large diesel type and they all work on the same principle. Being a machinist for over 25 years helps when it comes to types of metal used in these things. The gears in transmissions are made of a metal that is *VERY* hard when heat treated and aren't meant to bend under stress but break.

And it really sounds like something broke. That said I wouldn't be surprised if you have a piece/chunk of metal floating around in there and if the conditions are right will get caught up in the other gears and take them with it as well. From what I can get from this post it sounds like the reverse gear and/or reverse idler gear is the problem. In either case you will have to disassemble the trans, which does take a couple of specialized tools to take the gears off of the intermediate shaft because I think since its in the reverse part of it, it will be on the output shaft of the transmission.

If you tackle this job or have someone do it for you (believe me they charge an arm and a leg, Thats why I learned to do it on my own) 1 thing I've *ALWAYS done is buy 2 very strong and small magnets and set them in the bottom of the trans, that way in the future all metal particles will stick to them rather than floating around in the trans. I've worked on many and very few have magnets in them.

 

[Junkman]

I concur with Grumpa and the rest of the group. The sad part is that if it is a gear, and you don't repair it quickly, it will continue to self destruct and when you do get around to repairing it, it will be very expensive. Some of those gears are very expensive and may be out of production stock, which makes them both expensive and hard to find. It would be cheaper to rent another tractor than to continue to use the damaged one because of the damage that is being done. If you have never been into a transmission, get some experienced help or leave it to a professional. You can do the bull work to remove it and save some money there. Also while you are in there, might as well do the clutch assembly also....

 

[ByronBob]

Dawg
I would find the broken piece of metal before you do anything else. It has to be in there somewhere if the theory we all have is correct.
Why didn't the shear pin give first? It seems if the tooth broke off in forward gear the tooth would have bent that way before it broke. But in reverse the forward broken tooth now going in the other direction makes it loud because the meshing effect isn't smooth in reverse.

 

[slowrev]

I have a 68 IH 444 but my manual does not cover the 544 so I can only give general advise. Does your 544 have a 2 stage clutch with a PTO engagement lever or an independent PTO engagement lever ? Does the noise occur with the PTO disengaged ? If a 2 stage clutch then the problem is probably in the clutch or the PTO mechanism/shaft thru the transmission. If you have an independent PTO then the gear driving the PTO is probably damaged/broken. My 444 has a 2 stage clutch with a lever on the leftside to engage the PTO shaft dog. These lever shafts have been known to get bent and cause the PTO to be partially engaging when they are to appearances off, or the engagement dog inside the transmission could be damaged.

Just a reminder to all, always loosen and readjust your slip clutches at the beginning of each mowing season as they can/will rust up and stick. There is probably a shear bolt as well, be sure and use the proper grade of bolt there as too hard of a bolt will cause other things to break.

I agree with the other posters here that continued use of the tractor in it's present condition could make your problem worse and more expensive to repair.

Please let us know how your repair tuns out. And good luck.

 

[Tractor_Dawg]

First of all, thanks to everyone for your feedback.
I'm definately letting Big Red take a rest. Hearing that noise makes me cringe.
I have an independent PTO engagement lever. The noise is there regardless of whether the PTO is engaged or not. Turning the PTO on and off does not effect the noise. How could a heavy torque load on the PTO shaft cause a problem with the drive gears? I have no idea how the PTO is driven, but I always assumed it was independent of the drive. Was it just a coincidence?
Another thing I'm curious about is the brakes. The brakes are located in the same location and have never worked real well, could the brakes be causing some kind of noise??
I'm probably ignoring the obvious, but what you guys are saying is making me sick to my stomach.
You guys wouldn't recommend an amateur making an attempt on this? I have more time than money if you know what I mean, but if it's gonna cost me the same in parts & tools, I might as well give it to the professionals.
Thanks again for your help.

 

[slowrev]

I don't think the brakes are the problem, and they were never really great on this series of tractors. Somewhere in the PTO drive train there is about a 4 to 1 gear reduction. This makes your PTO speed max out at about 540 RPM while the engine maxes out at approx 2,000 RPM. One of these gears that reduce the PTO speed could be broken.

I don't think this is an easy job for a beginner. It would probably begin with removing the lift box off of the top of the transmission. Very heavy... You might also have to split the transmission off of the rear of the tractor....

I would recommend getting a repair manual for your tractor, they can be obtained from binderbooks dot com for about $30. You can study it and decide if you want to do the job yourself. I do understand about more time than money, although I seem to be crimped on both /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[oliver28472]

If you haven't already, you may want to post your question on ytmag.com. There are discussion forums there for several brands. Ususally some good answers. I am sure there are other good forums for IH.