Thoughts on planting maple seeds in alfalfa

[nmu98]

I have been working on planting my 5 acre alfalfa field into trees. Currently I till up a large are and plant the trees in rows so I can keep tilling close to them to keep the alfalfa and weeds down. It takes a lot of time that I could use in other ares of the field. The rest of the 20 acres is currently trees that I have planted over the last 5 years.

So, I was thinking, I could pick up a ton of the maple seeds that are dropping now and spread them through the alfalfa. That would allow me to get a more forest like look since they would not be in rows and it would keep the weeds down around them and force them to grow tall instead of outward. But my fear is that the alfalfa will choke them out.

Ideas? Suggestions?

 

[Egon]

Try it. Nothing lost.

You could also transplant small seedlings and see what happens.:thumbsup:

Throw in a few other Hardwoods??

Some Bird friendly trees?

A few shrubs?

 

[Oldchuck]

Red Maple (soft maple) grow pretty well in open fields. They love sun and wet. Sugar Maple (hard) is shade tolerant and prefer low light levels when they are sprouting.

 

[nmu98]

Try it. Nothing lost.

You could also transplant small seedlings and see what happens.:thumbsup:

Throw in a few other Hardwoods??

Some Bird friendly trees?

A few shrubs?

I have 15 other acres of various trees. What I have learned from planting this farm field into a woods is that it is easier to start with a fast growwing tree like a poplar or silver maple and then plant the more expensive hardwoods later once the other trees have the weeds tamed back a bit. since the maples are free, I thought I would try it. The cost to me is what I would make on selling the hay. So I really do not want trial and error, if possible.

Red Maple (soft maple) grow pretty well in open fields. They love sun and wet. Sugar Maple (hard) is shade tolerant and prefer low light levels when they are sprouting.

I have some sugar maples mixed in on the edge of the alfalfa and they are not thrilled about it. They are growing at a 1/3 of the rate the others are. Thats what scares me about putting trees in the middle of the alfalfa. There is not much water......... But also not much wind either...... I think I am planting silver maple, or slight variations of it.

 

[studor]

I think the alfalfa will probably choke them out. A forester told me that I should disc or shallow plow around the forest edge on my place to let the seed trees natually re-populate old fields. The grass tends to choke them out. Happens in a grazed woodlot once grass grows --- new trees take quite a while to establish unless the grass is taken off.
If you plant the maple seeds in dirt they will grow -JMHO

 

[Ford850]

I fall disk and then brodcast red, white, and burr oak acorns, black walnuts, shagbark, shellbark, bitternut and pignut hickory nuts, and hard maple seeds. I disk the seeded area lightly and then run a culitpacker over it. Squirrels and birds 'plant' many other varieties that are bird and game friendly. I let the weeds take over which slows the growth for a few years but it is low maintenance. I did try to frost seed (broadcast in Feb) red clover over the last tree seeded area this past winter, but it is mostly weeds so far. Time will tell on that area. A better plan would be to kill the weeds well in advance of tree seed planting, but I didn't do that. If you have alfalfa, you could just disk that and plant the tree seeds, and then plant clover if you'd like. I used to plant hundreds of seedlings yearly but the broadcasting of seed gets MUCH better results with less work. I pick up the seeds by the bucket full at state or metro park areas. Anything from the white oak family germinates shortly after dropping from the tree so you have to collect them right away.

 

[reddog176]

Why not spray round-up or something similar to kill off the alfalfa first?

 

[MossRoad]

For what it's worth, we reforested a 4 acre field 20 years ago. Our goal is veneer timber for our ancestors. :laughing: Anyhow, if you want tall, straight trees, you have to stress them when they are young to get them to reach for the sunlight. We planted alternating rows of pines and mixed hardwoods. The pines grow fast and are wide at the bottom and skinny at the top, just the opposite of a hardwood tree. The pine rows force the hardwoods to grow tall and straight between the rows to reach for the sun. I can honestly say the the pines are pushing 40' and the hardwoods are tall, straight poles with their branches poking out above the pines.

When we planted the trees, we got into a government program that helped pay for part of the planting. Since our soil is highly erodible, the state wants to stabilize the soil. They ended up paying for 75% of the cost. So we got 2150 trees bought, planted and side sprayed for under $300.00... all done in one day. I suggest you look into programs like this in your state.

The only stipulation was that for the first 5 years we MUST side spray the trees once a year to keep weeds down OR we MUST mow between the rows to keep the weeds down as needed. The state forester stressed that weeds and tall grass is the enemy of the trees and the program would be void if we did not control the weeds. So after the first year, we mowed between the rows. After 6 years I could hardly get the tractor down there anymore anyway because the pines bushed out as planned.

I really didn't think the hardwoods were doing all that well for the first 10-12 years, as they were skinny and spindly. Well, then they started adding height and popped over the pines about 4-5 years ago. Now they are adding girth! :thumbsup: Most of the pines are around 12" diameter at 3' up from the ground. Most of the hardwoods are 8-10" at 3' now. They were only 3-4" just 4-5 years ago.

If I were you and wanted to start my own seedlings, I would:
1. Start them in a nursery bed where you can control the weeds for the first 2-3 years.
2. Don't transplant them out to the field until they are 3' high.
3. Make sure you have a plan to control weeds for the first 5 years.
4. DO NOT plant only 1 or 2 types of trees. If a disease or pest comes through, it will wipe your entire forest. Plant MIXED HARDWOODS (we've got 7 different Oaks, poplar, maple, walnut, cherry and a few other species).
5. Consider planting a windbreak around the field with a double row of pines then shorter trees like crab apples, then shrubs on the outside that bear fruit and berries. The bunnies and deer like fruit and berries more than they like tree saplings. They will eat those instead of your trees.

We lost MAYBE 10 trees total out of that first 2150. We were very lucky. The place is full of deer, turkeys, bunnies, etc... I was just out there this weekend and it is now a forest. We may start cutting pines out in the next few years as they have done their job well. :thumbsup:

 

[JCB]

nmu,

I'm basically doing the same thing as you converting alfalfa to trees and tilling, planting and mowing, mowing, mowing every year.

Wisconsin DNR says that if you're not gonna bother with weed control then don't even bother planting. Probably goes double for alfalfa as that chokes out most everything.

You can certainly try broadcasting seed and hoping for the best, but with your experience tilling, mowing and converting other parts of the field to trees I bet you know how broadcast seeding is gonna turn out.

Best of luck,

 

[nmu98]

I hate to have all my trees in rows, but I think trying to take the easy way out is going to result in poor production. I guess its time to til up more alfalfa and plant some trees.

Thanks for the input guys.

 

[forgeblast]

look into crp or crep programs, the .gov will cost share you to plant trees. if you do a search in rural living you will see my crp planting.

I would not till it up. What i have/would do is take a backback sprayer of round up and every 15 feet where you want to plant spray a row, then go back the other way. you will end up with a checker board. this keeps the soil from eroding all over the place.
where the lines intersect plant a tree. use tree tubes, bluex are the cheap ones, tubex are the expensive ones....worth it in my opinion. go with the 5' if deer are around.
they also protect against voles. voles will eat the roots of any trees you plant if you do not have the grass around the tubes low/rounded up and have tubes. they can do more damage then the deer.
I planted 150 trees and 70 shrubes in 3 days by having it all planned out(by myself). I also went and pre dug some holes because our area is rocky.
If you have seedlings either tube them, or plant them in a protected area until they get bigger and then transplant.
another trick to reforest a field is to take 50' of 4' chicken wire/fencing. make a big circle and stake it to the ground. nature will grow in there, but the deer will not jump in they dont want to be fenced in. (i saw this done at a local park with a good deal of success).
good luck

 

[Ford850]

It depends on your goal. If you want to grow lumber, then planting in rows and keeping all competitive vegetation down is the way to go. I didn't plan for lumber though. I started my project 5 years ago. Now I add a new 10' strip next to exisiting fence rows each year, about 2500' in length total. The long narrow strips are easy to prepare and plant. I wanted some acres to go back to forest but didn't want to wait for the natural process. By planting seeds that I can get at no cost I have planted several acres and have thousands of trees that are growing fast now. They are growing above the weeds that they have fought for the past several years. It takes about 3 years for them to really get a boost in growth and now many are growing 2 - 3 feet each year. Some of the first trees are over 10' tall now. Most of the trees are the various hardwoods, but there are a lot of poplar, sasafras, apple, etc that are volunteers starting now in the thinner areas. For the first 3 years it looks like there are only a handful of trees that germinated in a strip, and then when they break out of the weeds there are actually hundreds. The deer, rabbits, and turkey love the thick cover. Just as the briars and rose starts to get thick, the trees are growing above that. Overall I am pleased with the results and enjoy adding to it each year.

 

[MossRoad]

I hate to have all my trees in rows, but I think trying to take the easy way out is going to result in poor production. I guess its time to til up more alfalfa and plant some trees.

Thanks for the input guys.

You don't have to plant them in rows. It just depends on what you want. Production timber?
Firewood factory?
Or a forest with no formal rows.

You can take a dibble (a pokey thing to poke holes in the ground) and just plant them where you want them. Just leave enough room so you can take a small tractor, quad, etc... pulling a sprayer in there to side spray them once a year. Or you could use a backpack or tank sprayer, too. It will take more work than planting in rows, but the end result will be what you want. :thumbsup: