The WICKED Root & Debris GRAPPLE!!!!!!!

[Eric102]

One question - I was thinking there was a spring attached to the hoses that kept the hydro lines up and away from the action? Is that an optional item? or aftermarket? If so anyone have a link? Thanks.

On my EA 55" I zip tied the hoses together and then formed a loop that lays on the torque tube which works well most of the time. The only time the loop falls below the tube is on the rare occasion that I max out the curl.

 

[IslandTractor]

Maybe you missed this post I made? I'm not going to plow with my FEL. Since I'm not going to plow with my FEL there is no need to limit myself with a skinny single lid grapple. For my uses I'd rather have the full size twin lid setup.

How another person uses their tractor and what implements they choose is up to them.

I got your point. Perhaps you haven't noticed that EA does show off the grapple as a device to sink into the ground and drive forward as a root ripper. That can be dangerous (to the FEL). We ALL rip roots but the safe way to do that is with a BB or subsoiler or with a grapple that is not moving at more than a slow crawl. Much more efficient to use the BB as you can travel at whatever speed you like. Grapples are certainly fine for ripping roots when the tractor is stationary as when maneuvering around a stump and stopping to rip roots as you go around. Again, consider the physics of a long spindly FEL on a CUT compared to the stubby short arms of a bulldozer....there is a reason for those design differences and a proper use for each. Professional land clearing is done with bulldozers when root ripping is required/desired. The pros know why.

Yes, folks can use and abuse their equipment anyway they want but as most grapple owners are making purchase decisions before they have ANY grapple experience, I think it behooves EA to be scrupulous about teaching proper technique and avoiding the "hold my beer" examples.

As for single versus dual lids, all I can say is that I've never seen someone on TBN who purchased a single lid grapple complain that he wished he'd paid more for a dual lid so he could have less net lift. And I've never had any trouble grappling whatever load I needed to wide or narrow. Why pay more for a grapple with less practical capability? Do any of you guys who purchased duals actually test them out against singles before reading off your VISA card numbers??? Me thinks probably not and that most decisions for wide duals are made on the basis of zero experience and falling for the all American bigger is better scam. Again, I said most. Some folks have well thought out reasons for buying different grapples based on a specific need or their past experience.

 

[IslandTractor]

With my wider (than my tractor) grapple I am able to test the space in which I will run my tractor through, test to see if I will fit (with a bit of wiggle room). I can also probe off to the sides where I don't know what's in the underlying brush: I have a lot of logging debris to contend with.

I have found that (because I can never seem to perfect the art of determining the perfect balancing point) in cases in which I have an off-center load that the wider grapple base works well to hold a load: most times I don't have the best angle to attack things- it's my world, I'm pretty used to working in it Travis, I think that you had recently posted some pictures of such loads that I'd placed in another thread. Does it put a twisting strain on the loader? Sure. But but with a more concentrated load in a smaller grapple you can have a load shift and present an equally, if not an ever greater, twisting force: this argument is overblown. A wider grapple also allows one to rip a wider section when ripping up roots: I have lots of area to clear, lots of blackberries and salmon berries- LOTS of roots! (with bush hog in the rear and the grapple in the front I'm able to make for pretty quick work of this)

It's a BIG world out there. Sometimes one has to have a BIG grapple! :thumbsup:

I don't get it. You work in constricted spaces so you have a grapple wider than your tractor to prevent you from getting into certain spaces.????? I also work in constricted spaces. My grapple doesn't prevent me from entering any space between trees. If my front tires don't fit then I know to back out. There just doesn't seem to be a reason to be actually LIMITED by the grapple width. Just this weekend I was maneuvering through trees to get at a ditch I was cleaning out with a backhoe. I drove the grapple through the brush to remove enough so I could see where I was going and then backed the tractor in to do the job. Tight squeeze but the grapple wasn't a limiting factor and I could get the BH into the appropriate spot to finish. Couldn't have done it with a grapple wider than my wheels.

As for balancing point, I think you have it backwards. If you pick up an off center load with a wide grapple you are MORE likely to have a dangerously imbalanced tractor. The leverage of the imbalanced load on the outboard edge of your wide grapple is greater than that on a narrow grapple. That means greater risk of tipping.

I've already commented on using a grapple to plow through fields of brush. Simply not the right tool if you want to do it quickly and safely. If you know there are zero boulders or stumps in an area you'll be OK but that is often hard to determine when the ground is covered by thorny brush that prevents a walk through.

 

[4570Man]

The WICKED Root & Debris GRAPPLE!!!!!!!

Big grapples are awesome. Just not on small machines. On this machine I think duel lids are a definite advantage. Compact tractors, not so much.

 

[IslandTractor]

Re: The WICKED Root & Debris GRAPPLE!!!!!!!

Big grapples are awesome. Just not on small machines. On this machine I think duel lids are a definite advantage. Compact tractors, not so much. View attachment 512798

Absolutely. That is the machine the big dual lid grapples were designed for. With few exceptions, like the EA 50" single, grapples used on CUTs are simply grapples designed originally for skidsteers. Look at the size of the loader arms on that puppy. Looks like it has been on a steroid diet while CUT FEL arms look like 99lb weaklings in comparison.

 

[DieselBound]

I don't get it. You work in constricted spaces so you have a grapple wider than your tractor to prevent you from getting into certain spaces.????? I also work in constricted spaces. My grapple doesn't prevent me from entering any space between trees. If my front tires don't fit then I know to back out. There just doesn't seem to be a reason to be actually LIMITED by the grapple width. Just this weekend I was maneuvering through trees to get at a ditch I was cleaning out with a backhoe. I drove the grapple through the brush to remove enough so I could see where I was going and then backed the tractor in to do the job. Tight squeeze but the grapple wasn't a limiting factor and I could get the BH into the appropriate spot to finish. Couldn't have done it with a grapple wider than my wheels.

As for balancing point, I think you have it backwards. If you pick up an off center load with a wide grapple you are MORE likely to have a dangerously imbalanced tractor. The leverage of the imbalanced load on the outboard edge of your wide grapple is greater than that on a narrow grapple. That means greater risk of tipping.

I've already commented on using a grapple to plow through fields of brush. Simply not the right tool if you want to do it quickly and safely. If you know there are zero boulders or stumps in an area you'll be OK but that is often hard to determine when the ground is covered by thorny brush that prevents a walk through.

Of course you're not going to "get it."

Life has risk. While you spend an inordinate amount of time ridiculing others' here I'm out working and doing the things that you say shouldn't be done.

Not everyone has the ability to stock on every "right tool for the job." (I do rent rent equipment such as excavators for digging out big stumps and doing trenching). If one is afraid to push the envelope with something then by all means, they shouldn't do it: a skilled operator is more readily able to get a tool/machine to do more than an unskilled operator- an unskilled operator if pressed to do the same is more likely to break something. In over 1,200 hrs of, what you would consider "overstressing" my equipment, I haven't broken anything as a result: I've had common issues, but no major breakages. And what I've done would give you a coronary. Life is tough. Sometimes you just have to step aside and let those who are able and willing to push things do so.

Again, I'm managing to do all the things that you seem to imply shouldn't and cannot be done. Pissing about here on an Internet forum means little. So, carry on and claim this thread as your crown jewel. I'm out of here- I have work to do...

 

[IslandTractor]

Of course you're not going to "get it."

Life has risk. While you spend an inordinate amount of time ridiculing others' here I'm out working and doing the things that you say shouldn't be done.

Not everyone has the ability to stock on every "right tool for the job." (I do rent rent equipment such as excavators for digging out big stumps and doing trenching). If one is afraid to push the envelope with something then by all means, they shouldn't do it: a skilled operator is more readily able to get a tool/machine to do more than an unskilled operator- an unskilled operator if pressed to do the same is more likely to break something. In over 1,200 hrs of, what you would consider "overstressing" my equipment, I haven't broken anything as a result: I've had common issues, but no major breakages. And what I've done would give you a coronary. Life is tough. Sometimes you just have to step aside and let those who are able and willing to push things do so.

Again, I'm managing to do all the things that you seem to imply shouldn't and cannot be done. Pissing about here on an Internet forum means little. So, carry on and claim this thread as your crown jewel. I'm out of here- I have work to do...

Hey Bubba, I don't really care what you do or don't do with your equipment. My focus is on newbies who are trying to learn as they consider purchases. Better they should learn the basic principles from the start and not over spend on equipment just because some yahoo thinks bigger is better. We all eventually push equipment but it is nearly always better to learn how to do something properly before you start cutting corners and bending rules.

 

[Sysop]

I think the main friction in this thread stems from the fact that folk are thinking that their thinking is the only line of thinking. "Newbies" honestly require input from all sources, ones that go big and ones that go small, and then they need to make their own decisions based on their own uses.

Take the 'tractor stability' bit on wider versus narrow grapples. Above someone said a wider grapple can make a tractor more unstable, but that is a blanket statement based on a specific set of uses and honestly doesn't always hold true. If you grab a long timber uncentered, it really doesn't matter how wide the grapple is as much as how uneven the weight is balanced. Any weight added by a wide grapple is evenly distributed, so doesn't affect the balance any at all. Same timber, balanced the same, but with a narrow grapple and start driving along with it and the heavy end is bouncing some due to terrain, those forces are much greater than they would be with a wider grapple supporting more of the timber; simply because more of the timber is sticking out to bounce around creating greater leverage forces. That being said, where the narrower grapple may allow more bouncing, the wider grapple will transfer more of those twisting forces into the FEL frame. Either can create an unstable situation. Centering up the load on a small grapple still allows more bouncing at the ends, but you can get a slightly heavier load with it. Heavier load with more bounce at the ends may not be a good thing. Whichever works best, is at best, a case by case basis. Which someone should choose, is totally up to them.

What about the "tines to grub up roots". Soil varies all over, as do the types of roots encountered. I've never heard EA saying you should be removing large tree stumps and deep roots with these things, what I've always heard discussed by EA is brush roots that are just below the sod. I think a lot of this argument is simply a case of the various loaders being built differently for different machines. I'm sure my loader on my 5000lbs tractor is built to take more pressure than my brother in law's 3000lbs tractor (both are 40HP). If someone goes plowing their FEL into stones and stumps and bends things, they should have read the manual for their FEL and understood the limitations. It is something that should be pointed out, but not argued about like it has been. Not all equipment is made equal, unless you have or have had the exact tractor as a person inquiring, you're clueless about what their risk level is on such tasks.

Above are ideal examples of why people need to simply state their own uses, opinions, likes, and dislikes and leave it at that. Try to keep in mind, a person thinks so highly of their opinion they feel they must dispute any other opinions, generally ends up disregarded in the end.

 

[IslandTractor]

I think the main friction in this thread stems from the fact that folk are thinking that their thinking is the only line of thinking. "Newbies" honestly require input from all sources, ones that go big and ones that go small, and then they need to make their own decisions based on their own uses.

Take the 'tractor stability' bit on wider versus narrow grapples. Above someone said a wider grapple can make a tractor more unstable, but that is a blanket statement based on a specific set of uses and honestly doesn't always hold true. If you grab a long timber uncentered, it really doesn't matter how wide the grapple is as much as how uneven the weight is balanced. Any weight added by a wide grapple is evenly distributed, so doesn't affect the balance any at all. Same timber, balanced the same, but with a narrow grapple and start driving along with it and the heavy end is bouncing some due to terrain, those forces are much greater than they would be with a wider grapple supporting more of the timber; simply because more of the timber is sticking out to bounce around creating greater leverage forces. That being said, where the narrower grapple may allow more bouncing, the wider grapple will transfer more of those twisting forces into the FEL frame. Either can create an unstable situation. Centering up the load on a small grapple still allows more bouncing at the ends, but you can get a slightly heavier load with it. Heavier load with more bounce at the ends may not be a good thing. Whichever works best is, at best, a case by case basis. Which someone should choose, is totally up to them.

What about the "tines to grub up roots". Soil varies all over, as do the types of roots encountered. I've never heard EA saying you should be removing large tree stumps and deep roots with these things, what I've always heard discussed by EA is brush roots that are just below the sod. I think a lot of this argument is simply a case of the various loaders being built differently for different machines. I'm sure my loader on my 5000lbs tractor is built to take more pressure than my brother in law's 3000lbs tractor (both are 40HP). If someone goes plowing their FEL into stones and stumps and bends things, they should have read the manual for their FEL and understood the limitations. It is something that should be pointed out, but not argued about like it has been. Not all equipment is made equal, unless you have or have had the exact tractor as a person inquiring, you're clueless about what their risk level is on such tasks.

Above are ideal examples of why people need to simply state their own uses, opinions, likes, and dislikes and leave it at that. Try to keep in mind, a person thinks so highly of their opinion they feel they must dispute any other opinions, generally ends up disregarded in the end.

Your basic comparison points are very reasonable but I dispute the idea that "people need to simply state their own uses, opinions, likes and dislikes and leave it at that". Debate is useful. Better to challenge and get down to basic principles than just record and tally opinions. Listing preferences when none of us has operated each and every type of tractor or implement doesn't really tell us that much. Having some guy state that he just loves his F350 to go grocery shopping and leave it at that isn't really that helpful to someone trying to decide what vehicle to purchase. Debating pros and cons is almost always more helpful than just taking a poll. Debates can get contentious on the interweb but in this day and age almost everyone knows that so while discourse is sometimes less than polite most readers know that the woofing is just that.

 

[Cataclysm]

I got your point. Perhaps you haven't noticed that EA does show off the grapple as a device to sink into the ground and drive forward as a root ripper. That can be dangerous (to the FEL). We ALL rip roots but the safe way to do that is with a BB or subsoiler or with a grapple that is not moving at more than a slow crawl. Much more efficient to use the BB as you can travel at whatever speed you like. Grapples are certainly fine for ripping roots when the tractor is stationary as when maneuvering around a stump and stopping to rip roots as you go around. Again, consider the physics of a long spindly FEL on a CUT compared to the stubby short arms of a bulldozer....there is a reason for those design differences and a proper use for each. Professional land clearing is done with bulldozers when root ripping is required/desired. The pros know why.

Yes, folks can use and abuse their equipment anyway they want but as most grapple owners are making purchase decisions before they have ANY grapple experience, I think it behooves EA to be scrupulous about teaching proper technique and avoiding the "hold my beer" examples.

As for single versus dual lids, all I can say is that I've never seen someone on TBN who purchased a single lid grapple complain that he wished he'd paid more for a dual lid so he could have less net lift. And I've never had any trouble grappling whatever load I needed to wide or narrow. Why pay more for a grapple with less practical capability? Do any of you guys who purchased duals actually test them out against singles before reading off your VISA card numbers??? Me thinks probably not and that most decisions for wide duals are made on the basis of zero experience and falling for the all American bigger is better scam. Again, I said most. Some folks have well thought out reasons for buying different grapples based on a specific need or their past experience.

I could care less how EA shows off their equipment. It's theirs to show case any way they want. Maybe you didn't notice EA is clear that they test their equipment to extremes to find design/material limits. Hooray for them!

What I am missing is why your stressing the same point over and over again to the same person who has clearly stated they are not plowing with a FEL.

There are more equipment use video's that EA's. They are just one data point. All of us here posting differing needs and uses adds data points. One person posting over and over again the same data point doesn't add data points.

"Hold my beer" examples count towards how not to do something. If a person can't see that they have bigger problems than worrying about grapple size.

Isn't the consensus here to buy one size tractor bigger than you think you need? How does that thought process suddenly fail when it comes to grapples? If you followed that consensus isn't your tractor big enough to run a full size grapple and still be well under lift capacity? What if you can figure out how to use that one size up tractor and a full size grapple to some new advantage? Maybe someone has?

The other side of that is if you running your lift capacity so close that a few pounds make or breaks any particular lift then just make two trips. Its no big deal to an experienced operator.

There is no single vs dual lid issue. Get the one that works for you and your uses. You seem happy with your skinny single lid, great, enjoy! Don't sweat my wide dual lid, you have no idea what uses I have in mind.

I see where you said "most" on the disparaging "American bigger is better scam" comment. That's twice that you've ran that by me. Is there some particular reason? Can you somehow deduce a persons nationality based on grapple choice? Can you also deduce eye color or how they comb their hair from that same grapple choice? I ask half joking but half serious. You could get into serious trouble making comments like that in a work place, even if it's not directed at an individual.

We should probably stick with the grapple usage/size discussion.

Tell you what, when my full size twin lid gets here, bring your skinny single lid down and lets have a Wicked Root Grapple Battle Royale! EA will love us and we will sell millions of grapples for EA! (You know I'm just havin fun here, right?)