The Real Problem With the Titan Ballast Box

[Suburban Plowboy]

I got my Titan ballast box painted and attached. I had 700 pounds of sand waiting. The ads say it has an 800-pound capacity, and they say you can fill it with rocks or sand.

Guess how much sand it holds?

I have 350 pounds in the box right now, and it's nearly full. I believe it would hold 375. Add 375 to the weight of the box, and what do you get? Answer: 505 pounds. That's not 800 plus 130. It's not even 800.

Based on figures from a person who knows a lot about sand and concrete, at best, concrete would weigh 1.5 times as much, so I could conceivably get 560 pounds in there. That brings the total weight up to 690. That's a best-case scenario. It could be a lot less.

In order to equal the manufacturer's stated capacity, I would have to use metal. I could combine metal and other materials in order to avoid buying hundreds of dollars' worth of steel, but there is no way to do it without metal, if the figures quoted to me are right.

Gravel would presumably be the worst thing to use, because it would contain a lot of air.

I kind of think the ad should say something like, "Capacity (sand): 375 pounds." It never occurred to me to take the capacity of the box, look up the density of sand, and see if it would fit.

Still better than dragging a bush hog around everywhere.

 

[Einthewoods]

If it is the one I am seeing it has 5.3 cu ft of space in it. If a cu ft of concrete weighs 150 lbs., that would get you pretty close to the 800 number (795). So, I would go with concrete if you want to get to that weight.

 

[treedawg]

Might consider adding water to the sand.

Wet sand is a whole lot heavier than dry sand.

td

 

[Suburban Plowboy]

I am suspicious of the volume claim. The lightest figure I have for sand is 100 pounds per cubic foot, so 530 pounds for the box. I didn't get anything close to that.

 

[Einthewoods]

I am suspicious of the volume claim. The lightest figure I have for sand is 100 pounds per cubic foot, so 530 pounds for the box. I didn't get anything close to that.

It's a bummer for sure, sorry it isn't working out for you. Any sizeable rocks around your place you could add in? I assume they are heavier than sand?

I know a few people with lead in their arse I would be happy to have you haul around on your 3 pt. LOL :laughing:

 

[oosik]

The dimensions stated for the red box actually come out to a little more than 5.6 cu ft. You could get approximately 840 pound of concrete in the box plus whatever the box weighs. However - I would not want to put concrete in the box.

Whoever wrote up the ad for that box did not understand the vast difference - volume wise - between 800 pounds of concrete or sand or gravel.

 

[dadster4]

Somebody did not know how to do volume to weight calculations. Maybe didn't even know how to calculate volume.

Not very nice :thumbdown:

 

[ruffdog]

The box is 24"x 24"x 15.7"= 2 x 2 x 1.308= 5.23cuft

concrete=150lbs/cuft x 5.23 = 785lbs
sand=120lbs/cuft x 5.23 = 628lbs

empty it weighs 132lbs

All info is subject to old guy calculations and internet info.....

 

[oosik]

Your calculations are correct - ruff dog. Unfortunately - those are not the dimensions listed in the ad for the red ballast box.

25.5" x 24.25" x 15.75" =9740 cu in. There are 1728 cu in per cu ft. 9740/1728 = 5.637 cu ft

 

[ruffdog]

I was going on the dimensions Amazon had for the green Titan box. I wonder what the dims of the OP's box??? Just a mistake? I know i'm having way more brain farts the older I get...I figure it is a good day when my feet are flat on the ground! :dance1:

 

[Einthewoods]

I wonder if the difference in the ad (that I saw anyhow on palletforks.com) which showed 5.3 and the 5.6 above is the box dimensions versus the actual volume being it has a couple tubes for tool storage.

Regardless, > 5 cu ft would get you to ~800 lbs of concrete.

Unfortunately the add is wring in saying "Engineered to hold up to 800 lb of concrete, sand, or steel...". They clearly mean that the box can take the stress of holding that much. Bad wording to make someone think 800 lbs of sand can actually fit in it.

 

[oosik]

NO - - ruffdog is right. I finally got the web site to open the spec sheet on the GREEN BOX. Must be because the green box is specific to JD that it is a slightly different dimension.

What ever - does not make much difference - 5.3 or 5.6 - not even Houdini could get 800 pound of sand in that space.

To get 800 pounds its either going to be concrete or start loading on chunks of railroad iron.

Short funny story - The OP, rightfully, thought this box would hold 800 pounds of sand. Most unfortunately, he has learned a lesson on volume and weight. About 25 years ago one of the two major railroad companies abandoned a section of their line and removed ties and iron. There was a great pile of ties and iron about 15 miles south of me. Neighbor got the OK to take one chunk of rail. So - he and I - dumb as green farts - proceeded down to the area with my pickup and tandem axle trailer. Quick lesson learned - there is no way on God's green earth that two guys with a pickup and trailer are going to leave that area with one length of railroad iron.

As I remember - all the iron came in lengths around 20 feet and I later learned that this "standard gauge" rail was around 130 pounds per yard. Twenty foot chunk = approximately 900 pounds.

I bet the railroad fellow that gave the OK had a real big chuckle on that deal.

 

[Einthewoods]

Yeah, pretty sure that's what we're all saying.

 

[Redlands Okie]

Many figures for concrete are when wet. Some are for dry. Will make a substantial difference.

 

[shooterdon]

As a bullet caster, I have a lot of lead available. I believe it weighs about 700 lb/cu ft. It costs about $1.00-1.20 a lb if you buy it but it can be scrounged for less.

When I build my ballast box, I intend to use it. As ingots, the weight is relatively easy to adjust and it will leave room in the box for tools and accessories.

 

[RayfromTX]

Dry concrete is not substantially lighter than wet concrete. Most of the water is used in the chemical reaction of the cure process and becomes part of the finished concrete mass. The part that evaporates is a very small amount of the weight of the wet concrete total weight and is dependent on the amount of excess water in the mix. In general the excess water should be kept to a minimum to create the strongest and most durable finished concrete. The excess water will slowly leave the curing concrete and what remains is more porous than if the concrete is poured with a lower slump and water to cement ratio.

Concrete is actually a very complex subject and would fill a large book but in general wet concrete and dry concrete are quite close to the same weight by volume. A yard of concrete weighs about 4,000 lbs. It may evaporate 10-20 lbs during curing. If it is placed on the dry side and properly hydrated during the curing process, it is possible for it to gain weight as it cures. That would be atypical in the real world because it is most often placed too wet to help the workability especially if the concrete crew is lazy or poorly trained. Concrete crews with decades of experience are often poorly trained and spend their entire careers placing concrete poorly through their ignorance.

There are no hard and fast rules of thumb. Concrete is chemistry. In chemistry, the details matter.

 

[newbury]

I got my Titan ballast box painted and attached. I had 700 pounds of sand waiting. The ads say it has an 800-pound capacity, and they say you can fill it with rocks or sand.

Guess how much sand it holds?

I have 350 pounds in the box right now, and it's nearly full. I believe it would hold 375. Add 375 to the weight of the box, and what do you get? Answer: 505 pounds. That's not 800 plus 130. It's not even 800.

Based on figures from a person who knows a lot about sand and concrete, at best, concrete would weigh 1.5 times as much, so I could conceivably get 560 pounds in there. That brings the total weight up to 690. That's a best-case scenario. It could be a lot less.

In order to equal the manufacturer's stated capacity, I would have to use metal. I could combine metal and other materials in order to avoid buying hundreds of dollars' worth of steel, but there is no way to do it without metal, if the figures quoted to me are right.

Gravel would presumably be the worst thing to use, because it would contain a lot of air.

I kind of think the ad should say something like, "Capacity (sand): 375 pounds." It never occurred to me to take the capacity of the box, look up the density of sand, and see if it would fit.

Still better than dragging a bush hog around everywhere.

If this is the ad:

- 800 lb Capacity
- Fits Standard 3 Point Category 1 Hitch
- 2" hitch ball receiver makes it easier to tow while using(Hitch ball not included)
- Large pockets on the bottom make it easy to move with a forklift
- Includes lower lift pins (2) and top link pin
- Sliding Front Door
- Use with Sand, Steel, Concrete, Gravel, Rocks, etc.

Most steel weighs about 480 lbs/cubic foot.
I have no idea what etc. weighs.
Would you have complained if it broke when you put 5.3 cubic foot of steel in it? (about 2,544 lbs).
I read that ad as like a trailer ad - My trailer has a 12K capacity.

 

[CincyFlyer]

I chopped up an old cast iron paper guillotine, and tossed in some old rebar and brake disks (which can usually be had for free). Then I mixed about 50/50 sand and concrete and dumped that in. I don't know what it weighs; it's likely "overweight", but it's now useful. I had tried sand, wasn't enough weight, and after a rain, my cardboard hole blockers gave way.

 

[CMV]

I have same box and read it same way - you can put up to X weight in it and it won't break.....Didn't assume simply filling it to capacity with any possible material would just = rated weight

Regardless, I think it's a nice piece. A little smallish now that I have a bigger machine so need to get mine heavier (just have lemon-sized crushed concrete in it now which was perfect for smaller machine). But overall good box for not a lot of $.

 

[ruffdog]

I would like to get a section of culvert, fill it with concrete with a 7/8 rod through it. I could use it for weight or a lawn roller.