The Project or the Tractor...Help!

[MaineTWLSB]

Which comes 1st???

Have been reading TBN for about 3 weeks now (has been very helpful) and was hoping some of the more experienced members (anyone is welcome to chime in) could advise me on a project that I don’t even have a tractor for yet.

Wife and I and 2 boys are moving in to my family’s old farmhouse (1850 at least I’d guess) and one of the stone walls in the basement was pushed in by frost this winter. A friend of mine who is a builder looked at it and suggested replacing as much of the wall(s) as possible. He estimated the whole project would be about $12k (I’m rounding that to 15k just to be safe). With roughly half of that being excavation.

My brother and I are talking about getting a tractor for the farm (not a working farm but that’s what we call it). I need it for snow removal (rear mount) and have already thought of endless other projects for it. He would like it for when he comes up from NY to winch logs from the woods (ever hear of a forester from Long Island?).

Sorry about the rambling. So here’s the question, instead of spending $6,000 to $8,000 on the excavation, buy a BH with the new tractor and do the digging myself (put in as part of the home improvement loan??). Can a 7 ½’ or 8 ½’ BH do this job? Would prefer a 7 ½’ BH to keep costs down on both the BH and the tractor. I’ll post some more pictures and dimensions of the project...

 

[MaineTWLSB]

Would a 7 ½’ BH go deep enough and/or be strong enough? The sill rests on large blocks of granite that run 6-7’ long, 13-19” high, and 8-10” thick.

 

[MaineTWLSB]

Have some room to work with in front of the house but not a whole lot. About 28’ from front of the house to the embankment going down to the road. Was thinking I would dig toward the embankment and ramp down into the basement. Does that make sense?

 

[MaineTWLSB]

As you can see I need to get this done before next winter…

Thanks for any input/advice….btw I’m looking at the Branson 3510/7620bh or Branson 3820/8620bh best price to spec ratio in my area that I’ve found….course my mind changes every half-hour or so… /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Thanks again
John

 

[djradz]

I like your reasoning! Keep in mind that the BH is a great thing to have around, but unless you plan to use it occasionally, (which you may with an old farm) you will be dropping $5K-$6K just to have it added to a tractor purchase. If you don't think you'll get that much use, buy the tractor anyway, and just rent a BH (or one as an attachment if available) and get a slightly bigger/better tractor instead, of course, with an FEL.

 

[MaineTWLSB]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( If you don't think you'll get that much use, buy the tractor anyway, and just rent a BH )</font>

djradz thats a very good point and I should have mentioned that the BH is something I would like to have anyway and would be very useful around the farm....thanks

 

[RobS]

I'm going to put your project into the "biggie" category. That doesn't mean you shouldn't try it, but you better be a very adept and experienced home improvement guy. Lots of things to go wrong when excavating around old houses.

Also, a tough way to learn a new machine will be smacking it into the side of your house.

Having said all that, what kind of other projects have you done in the past? With the right experience and mind-set, you should be fine with this one /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[beenthere]

What is that 28' like, meaning a lot of rock, boulders, or soil that a bucket on a FEL could dig into?

I would consider digging a trench (with the FEL bucket that has teeth) along the front wall of the house (I am presuming that is the wall that needs the help), replacing the wall, and then backfilling the trench with sand and non-clay soil that is well drained with tile and that will not expand when frozen to protect the new wall. A bit of landscaping in front of the house towards the road could be tailored into the project.

I don't see the real need for the backhoe. Possibly a skidsteer would work better than a FEL, but that may or may not fit into your plans.

A CUT with a logging winch (like the Farmi winch) would work great for your brother's needs in the timber. Equipped with a FEL and in the 35-40 HP range, it should do your dirt work and his logging work with great comfort and ease. Be in the $20,000 price range, but lots of potential for future needs on the 'farm'.

Just some thoughts from here without knowing all the ramifications and constraints that you have.

 

[jim_wilson]

Since you mentioned you had numerous needs for a backhoe besides just the foundation excavation buying a backhoe of some form sounds like a good idea. The fact that you have a pretty hefty bill coming up just for the excavation around the foundation makes the decision easier because you can use that money to buy a piece of equipment and be no worse off financially than if you paid somebody to do the work. The other option you could look into is buying a used trackhoe and buying a tractor. There has been a number of postings on tractorbynet about how the small trackhoes are much more efficient diggers than tractor mounted backhoes are. Normally a tractor mounted backhoe is a cheaper alternative but since you are talking about a 7 1/2 - 8 1/2 foot backhoe you are getting up to some good $$ and a used trackhoe might be in the same price range. Plus for digging next to a foundation the trackhoe might be a better piece of equipment. Having two pieces of equipment to maintain is a minus but having your backhoe not tie up the tractor is a plus - there will be a lot of jobs where having the two pieces of equipment will make the work go much faster. Check out Ebay - I have seen used Kubota and other brand trackhoes for $8000 - $10,000 with anywhere from 1500 - 2000 hours on them.

 

[MaineTWLSB]

I’ll try to answer some questions…

It is a very big project and probably done late in the summer (August). The bad wall is on the embankment side of the house (South face). Plan on replacing the entire corner meeting up with new wall that was put in when a bulkhead was add (see pic).

The “soil” is my biggest concern (no way a FEL will dig it with or without dentures). It is very rocky and I’m not sure what I’ll find once I start digging. I don’t believe there’s anything nasty like a ledge but could be some very big rocks. That’s why I’m curious what to expect from a BH on a CUT.

Should have plenty of help and will speak with the guy that would do the excavating if I don’t see what he thinks.

Anything else let me know

John

 

[KiotiJohn]

I'm just not so sure you should be the one to do this job. An insured expert would be better in my mind. Anything can happen when you're messing around with these walls. That's a big old heavy house, and if you undermine things, you could have more damage than you can shake a backhoe at.
Having said that, I think you could probably do the job with a 71/2 or 81/2' backhoe. I'm not sure how far down you're going to have to dig, but backhoes work the best when they're not at the full length, and in the curling phase they are strongest. If you have to go really deep, in rocks, you're going to start to lose power for digging in the extended position.
I like the idea of a rented or bought used trac hoe. Better reach, stronger hydraulics, and probably a better digger than any CUT backhoe. For all your other jobs a CUT BH should be just great, but I'm just not sure here, because there are too many variables I'm not privy to. Pics are not always worth the extra 1000 words needed.
John

 

[djradz]

With that much area around, he could scrape off a good foot of top soil from that entire side of the building before starting, and that might make the whole production a little less deep.

 

[MaineTWLSB]

The basement it's self is 6'6" deep, give or take a couple inches.

I'm not familar with a Trachoe and don't really want or need another piece of machinery. Mostly just thinking that if I have to take out the loan for the house repair anyways, that I should get as much out of it as possible ie. a BH. But of course I need to feel confident that I can do the job with the BH.

Thanks...keep the thoughts coming....

John

 

[beenthere]

I'd go for it, if it were me.

Support the house well from the inside (already looks like you are not depending on that wall to hold it up, given the steel posts shown in the pics).

If you need some heavy duty digging, hire someone on an hourly basis to come in and do that. Otherwise, give it a try, have a BH for later use, and put some sweat equity into it. Not a better way to build up your tool and toy base. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[AntrimMan]

You have a water problem caused by a poor grade and insufficient attention paid to the accumulation and freezing temps. I know it well. I walked away from what seemed to be good real estate deals because of it. When you fix that rubble stone wall how long will it be until the others need fixed also? This is no small job and it will never end. How much room is left on the lot. Is the house worth moving? There is a lot to be said for modern monolithic foundations and concrete floors.
Whatever you decide please be careful, falling houses take no prisoners.
Best of luck,
Martin

 

[djradz]

Martin, seems like you're being a little overly pessimistic. Looks to me like there is plenty of room to improve drainage and that all that may be required after the repair is some slope away from the house and proper routing of rain gutter runnoff. The area around the house appears to fall off, so there shouldn't be a problem with finding a way to direct the water to lower areas.

 

[MaineTWLSB]

We believe this little flower bed is the culprit (see pic). It was put in last summer and is right where the damaged wall is. Must have let more water into the ground creating more frost?? But the place has stood for at least 110+ years or more and is otherwise is in incredible shape. All floor joists, carrying beams, etc are dry and rot free (or at least very good for a house this old).

The house itself sits up on a hill and water drains away on all sides. I don’t believe drainage will be an issue once it’s done and filled properly.

Thanks again
John

 

[ducksjunk]

Go for the BH. You of course have to support the floor joist just inside the wall. You won't need to dig toward the bank. dig parrallel to the house about 36" out. that's all the room you need for a man to work on the outside of the wall. Most of the work will be done from inside. As for logging... A BH with a hook on the bucket and a few good chains works as well or better than a winch. Sometime a little slower, but more control since you can draw straight in or swing left/right as needed to snake a log out. You just shorten the chain with each draw towards the tractor. You also get some lift when you need it. I've done it this way for many years, and wouldn't be bothered with a winch. Also chains won't wrap around your neck like cables if they break. With that property you'll soon wonder how you ever lived without one. Pulling stumps, digging ditches, burying whatever?, planting trees, loading trucks/trailers. moving all sorts of things. All in all an indespensible tool. Like a third hand.
Richard.

 

[ducksjunk]

Just a P.S. to my previous post. That sounds like a rip off price to excavate the front of that house. Should be able to get that done for not more than $2000.00.
I did a barn foundation a while back in 3 days, and that was slow going, but included taking out the old broken wall. So whatever the hourly rate, you can do the math. A decent sized excavator shouldn't take more than a day to do that.
A backhoe a little longer.
R.

 

[Varmintmist]

Can you do it with a CUT back hoe?? Sure, the guy who put it in the first time used a shovel and a pick. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

If you have a use for the hoe you might as well give her a try. Dig away from the house itself and pull into your trench from the stuff that is close to the foundation. If you cant get deep enough, take the top of the ground off and lower the tractor.

That problem didnt happen last year, it has been there for a while. Look for drainage problems from the roof or across the front of the house.