The more I think it over the bigger it gets...

[Matt in Virginia]

Gentlemen,
I would like to begin by thanking everyone for your input on my John Deere versus Kubota question(s).

I was set to buy the JD 4720 until I started looking at the weight, or rather lack there of, and the ALUMINUM rear housings. I'm not casting aspersions to anyone with one of the tractors, however, I'll just say it was a shock to me. It has largely lead me to look back and the Kubotas, albeit larger models, and at heavier Deeres.

I realize we live in a global economy, for better or worse, and my simplistic remembrances of life behind the wheel of "true" John Deere farm tractors as a child(1982 4840) are not necessarily indicative of todays realities...

I've come to realize the following from MY perspective...

1. I prefer Green, however, I'm not going broke to get there.
2. I'm looking for a tractor with a bit more weight than either the JD 4720 or the Kubota 5740.
3. I think I need the cab due to allergies, however, Zyrtec goes along way for $10K...

4. I have discs, bedders, etc. that we still have on the farm from the 4 row era of farm equipment that does not leave me having to buy everything again if I start with a big enough machine. I even have an ultra heavy Bush Hog, sized for the 92 HP 4020, that is ready to roll.

5. I did not the like hydro transmissions in either machine(JD OR Kubota). I grew up with JD Synchro-Shifts, Quad Range, and Power Shifts. I prefer the first but can live with the latter two working in the field. I short I like a geared transmission...

I am coming down the same asinine choice that I made when I had to buy a new truck in 05'.... The ONLY two final choices were:

Toyota Tacoma Crew Cab 4x4, white, with Short Bed & V6 OR
Ford F-350 Super Duty Crew Cab Lariat 4x4, white, with Short Bed & Diesel Powerstroke.

In the end I choose the F-350 and I have never looked back. My world has changed tremendously over the last 5 years and the ability to hook my F350 on to my 3 axle equipment trailer with 24,000 pounds(pipe weight not trailer/truck weight) of 33" Ditch Pipe or a 26,000 pound unit of salt treated 8'x8'x20's banded together, and intended for semi movement, has been priceless. I know I was grossly over loaded, however, with a proper trailer and proper loading over the trailer axles it pulled perfectly. The rear end did not even squat. It actually looked just about perfect for the first time...

Moral of this seemingly unrelated story is that I am again looking at a Japanese Light Weight versus an American(German) Middle Weight. I've narrowed my choices down to a Kubota M6040 or M7040 Shuttle Shift OR a John Deere 6330 Premium with 673 Loader that has around 225 hours on it... Does this make me bipolar?... In all seriousness I know it is apples and oranges, however, I keep coming back to these two choices.

Here is the 6330 Premium...

In short I am reminded that in 2005 I had access to 5 of my father's KW W900s/T2000s with 460HP Red Head Cummins OR 550 HP CATs. Not to mention his trailers, insurance, ICC authority, to say nothing of trailers. That was a new 52' Raven Aluminum Deck shown beside my truck. Fast forward 5 years and I have NO access to those trucks, trailers, and most importantly of all my father(may he rest in peace).

Hence I'm caught in the Super Duty versus Tacoma Question. If everything would not have gone to **** in a hand basket I would not have needed the F350. That said it did and I did... Had I gone the Tacoma route I would have had to kiss a relatives A** to even move my 3 axle equipment trailer much less haul a load. The Super Duty has paid for it's premium many, many times not to mention having a Cab that offers far more room for those VA to CO jaunts. In short I'm very happy not to have gone with what I "needed" at the time and bought what I wanted.

I wonder if the 6330 is similar or entirely different kettle of fish... Thoughts? I do apologize if this is off topic...

In short the 6330 makes me less dependent...

Regards, Matt Garrett
Chesapeake, Virginia
757-581-6270

Btw, the Kubota is about 40K with the Cab, FEL, etc... The Deere is about 62K, with Superior Cab, FEL, etc. It also weighs about 10,000 pounds which is more than twice what the Kubota/JD light tractors weigh. While it is far from the 18,000 pound machine the 4840 was, it is **** a lot more Iron for the money than either of the lighter machines...

 

[tsteahr]

If you can manage to spend the extra money, you already know your answer. Make use of the lessons you learn in life. Nice post BTW.

 

[Matt in Virginia]

If you can manage to spend the extra money, you already know your answer. Make use of the lessons you learn in life. Nice post BTW.

tsheahr,
Thank you for the affirmation.

I was reading your equipment line and noticed your PTO generator. Granted I'm not wired up to make safe use of it, however, I have a nearly brand new 45KW PTO Generator that my father bought for the 4020. It does not take 85 PTO HP(6330), however, I dunno as the Kubota would be able to loaf under load like the bigger Deeres do with that unit...fwiw & Imho.

 

[om21braz]

If it is feasible, get what you want to start off with - it generally saves you money down the road (no second guessing) - BTW Nice JD & Ford!

 

[MarkV]

I'd have to know a bit more about your intended uses before offering a suggestion. That Deere sure is a beautiful tractor. It is also getting into a size range that is better for field work than general utility work around the homestead. To me it all has to do with what you plan to do with it.

MarkV

 

[TripleR]

I haven't gone back and reread the other post, but I kind of thought you were looking for a general utility tractor more than farm tractor. As mentioned, the job will dictate the size, but you know that with your back ground. All I can do is wish you luck as I know the feeling. The last two times I bought tractors, I came home with one smaller and one larger than I "wanted", but they were what I "needed".

 

[jenkinsph]

First, I think the aluminum housings you are referring to are on smaller tractors. The 4720 housings are cast iron, not aluminum. I agree these are light tractors. Prior to posting I checked with a magnet on my 4520.


To go from a compact to a 6330 indicates you are not sure what you want and that is okay too. I would try to figure this out and buy once though. I know I would like a better mower on the small end and a better large tractor for the ranch but I am concerned about the economy right now and will wait it out for now. The 6330 looks like a nice tractor to replace the OS4020 though.

 

[scoutcub]

Matt-

Interesting quandary you're in. Reading over your post a few times, as others have said, I think you've answered your own question. Assuming you have the land to work/need for HP as the older JD and existing implements would suggest, it's typically better to overpower vice underpower, as you also pointed out with the F350 scenario.
It's quite a bit of money for a tractor, but it's also quite a tractor(actually very nice!)....and you've only got pictures of 1 of the choices....
good luck!

 

[Matt in Virginia]

Gents,
As far as what I need or what I may need here is the situation...

I have two 20 acre plus properties that are not being rented out to a farmer. One is growing hay though the land is really not being taken care of... In short it is largely being allowed to lay out without suitable fertilizer, lime, etc.. In short the trace elements go down every year. The fellow who tends it has left the last two cuttings stand due reasons that he has not mentioned. In short he is in his Mid 60's and has made rumblings of letting his cows go. The reason he is, or more accurately was, round baling almost everything.

The second 20 acre property is about 6 miles down the road and recently came to me through an inheritance. It is the last part of a 120 acre farm that my father's father bought in 1945. The balance was given to his(grandfather) two other children who promptly sold it for about $600K. I had to laugh when it went back on the market, within a year, for $2.5 million. It is owned by a consortium of doctors who bought it with assorted pocket change found in the waiting room sofa...(grin)

In short my 20 acre parcel had a good deal of industrial castoffs thrown on the ground, at least on the front two acres, and it took me a few months with two Mexicans and a Hitachi 120-3 Excavator to clean it up. My father and I had very different ideas on being stewards of the land. The bad part is you never get everything up in a situation like that and most farmers don't want to put $200K worth of equipment on ground that may lead to a cut tire. At $2200 a piece the new radials are not cheap. Even an offer of free rent for two years has failed to draw any takers.

Not to mention I need to pay a business associate to do a bit of land leveling and ditching. To say this property has been VERY capital intensive, and still looks like crap, is an understatement.

Hence I have 20 acres that has not been tilled in three years and desperately needs attention. It has small trees growing up in what was previously field. If it does not get attention soon then we are back to a JD New Ground Disc. My uncle has one that my grandfather bought for the 4840. It is smaller than a 4 row disc, however, it would bring that 180 horse 4840 to stall if dropped in the ground fully. That said it cuts small trees cleanly into pieces. That said I don't have access to a 200HP tractor and hope not to need one...

I have another 50 acre tract that is currently being farmed by a good man and a good farmer, however, he is ill and I don't know how much longer he will be able/willing to brave the traffic in order to farm a rather small piece of land...

Hence I have 90 acres that stay on my mind as a potential problem. The 50 acre unit is the lesser of my worries, the hay farm comes second, and the God forsaken 20 I was cursed with/given takes up the majority of my worry time. Not to mention mowing around the barn which is almost a non issue...

I've thought of discing the 20 acre problem farm to powder, again must have enough tractor to pull a 4 row disc and cultipacker, and plant Black Walnut Trees. It would make a nice windfall for my children or grandchildren. Not to mention requiring the least annual heavy tillage. I would suspect I that after the planting I could get by with monthly mowing. This would greatly reduce my need for the Deere.

My other thought was about going to Hay would require the extra HP, a round baler, and a disc mower. Add a tedder and rake and the green required to put in good hay and maintain it. Round bales only as NO ONE around here wants to work anymore. That said that is a very expensive path when starting from scratch.

I should now preface this by saying, like Steve, that I am very weary of this economy and I don't want to put anymore money out than is necessary. 70 acres of the "problem" land is within spitting distance of high end retail and $1-3 million dollar homes. Pay no attention to the foreclosure signs amongst a few of these houses. That said it may not take THAT LONG to hold on to this property before development moves the quarter mile to my location. We've had offers in years past...

Again like Steve I am weary of both this economy AND I am reminded of how so many farmers went broke in the late seventies and early eighties. They signed on the dotted line with Deere, IH, etc and when the bottom fell out they had no way to pay the debt.

In all truth I know that I am not comfortable with $62-65K Utility Tractor purchase. I am not even happy about having to make a purchase at all. I have been painted into a corner and SOMETHING has to break. I just don't want it to be my piggy bank..

Out of all the tractors I have seen, minus the cab, the Kubota M6040 is the most comfortable and comes the closest to being doable without too much pain. I've spent time with a JD 6400, a few evolutions back, and was fairly impressed with the tractor.

The 6330 Premium with 673 loader is my first choice, however, I am beginning to wonder if I am not making a mountain out of a mole hill... In short I truly dunno...

Pros and Cons:

JD 6330

Cons
1. Purchase price is anything but comfortable right now. Painful may be more accurate. I have more irons in the fire than I can shake a stick at at the moment. 6 months ago it would have been no problem, however, the cursed ground required about $55K to satisfy a mortgage I was unaware of. It was not actually on the farm land but rather on the house at the front of the property. That said the house was valued at slightly less than 6 times that number and I could not allow it to go...

2. Some of the equipment for the 4020 is just completely worn out. It was used to tend 2,500 acres when my Maternal Grandfather was at his height and likely needs to go to the scrap yard.


Pros
1. I can use some remaining 4 row farm equipment again without have to depend on anyone. The bad part is most of the equipment is 40 years old and in need of a rebuild. Most importantly the HD JD Disc comes to mind. It needs bearing, and to be completely honest, blades. That said it is a HD Disc that was built for 6 row operation but never had the wings put on. This disc dates to the mid 60s. It also needs sand blasting and painting and likely a hydraulic line or two.

The cultipacker(sp?) is largely idiot proof and a shot of grease keeps it ready to go.

Caveat: This could be the opportunity to shuck a good deal of 40 year old equipment, clean up my new barn yard, and buy the few items the Kubota would actually need.

2. Tractor will pull the load of the as new 45KW PTO Generator in case of hurricane and/or power loss. Granted I am not setup for hookup to our current house so this may be a moot point.

Kubota M6040

Pros

1. The ROPS model is very, very doable. The price is comfortable and I actually like the layout of the tractor. Far more than I liked the Grands.

2. Will do a goodly majority of what I need done until we get around to serious work.

Cons

1. Will not pull the disc or my disk bedders for garden preperation. I could cut the bedders down to a doable size, however, the disk is largely a loss.

2. From experience with farm implements, and I'm thinking disc and cultipacker here, they work better the larger they are... The 4 row stuff works alright, however, the 30 foot JD off set discs leave the ground level enough to shoot marbles across. I am not excited with the prospect of going smaller. That said I may be ahead of the game to hire the work out to begin with...

3. I have to get used to that orange crush color...

4. The biggest issue I have is that I can't see putting 40K in M6040 with a Cab and FEL. This puts me 22-24K away from the Deere 6330. Granted I really need, unfortunately, the cab due to allergies and sinus trouble.

In short I am very much open and appreciative of your input. I have no one to talk this out with, that is not HEAVILY biased, and this forum has provided a good deal to think about.

I have a tendency to overbuy for the job. The F-350 saved my bacon, however, I've got a good deal of over large professional gear that sees very moderate use... That said it NEVER disappoints when the light duty gear fails. Which is nice...

Thoughts and observations appreciated...

Steve,
Sorry for the bum information on the aluminum castings, I read it on here somewhere and took it as fact. The fellow even mentioned buying a JD retrofit iron casting that strengthened the rear end...

Regards, Matt Garrett
757-581-6270

Btw, Feel free to give me a call if you would prefer to yack...

 

[TripleR]

Matt,

Just a few thoughts/observations. I found it next to impossible to make a decent profit running four row equipment on small acreage. The last person that I know who was farming this way quit about ten years ago. Of course he had to have a full time job off the farm too.

I am a firm believer in hiring work done or renting/bartering as opposed to buying whenever feasible rather than winding up with no longer needed equipment. We do this on back hoes, excavators and Skid Loaders. I won't buy a big truck and trailer to transport as I can hire it done a lot cheaper. I own a Toyota Tundra and my brother has a GMC dually, you can guess which one spends most of its life in the garage. Not knocking big trucks as some need them and I would "like" to have one but $$$$$$$$$$

I will be the first to admit that I don't always do this as I am retired and prefer to spend time on a tractor bush hogging, moving material and road maintenance rather than sitting on the porch or recliner. There is a point beyond which I won't go and that is largely regulated by cost.

I am sure this hasn't helped as you do have a pretty complex situation and you seem like the kind of guy who likes to do your own work.