The High Cost of Building a House

[webbmeister]

Hi Everybody:

Well, Thor (new 25D) is now paid for, and scheduled for delivery April 1st. I hope there is no significance to that date!

Anyway, we just got our quotes for the timber frame home back from the builders. The good news is that the bottom lines are similar. The bad news is that they are way way way over budget. So I have a short description, and then a question:

We are a family of two, and don't need a lot of bedrooms in the house. We'll die in this house, and we have no heirs. We couldn't care less about resale value. To make the house really open, we followed the lead of a Michigan couple and deleted the upstairs bedroom/bathroom area, so the rooms under that area now go straight up to the ceiling just as the greatroom does. To see this, you can go here (the area in question is directly above the kitchen, dining room, and breakfast nook):

http://www.riverbendtf.com/articles/article2.html

Here's the punchline/question. The size of the home was 3379 sq.ft. before the bedroom/bathroomectomy. The size of the home after this operation? 3379 sq.ft. Cost per square foot unchanged from version A (with bedrooms and bathroom) and version B (after removal of this second floor area,) and the contractors are using the sq. ft. number to calculate their bids. I don't understand how the sq. ft. doesn't change when you remove rooms. The architect explains that the exterior walls have to go up the same height as before, and the roof has to cover the same square footage. I say a floor, the walls and finish for two bedrooms, and an entire bathroom have been deleted.

Again, I don't get it! Anybody here smarter than me on this topic?

Thanks,Jim

 

[StoneHeartFarm]

webbmeister

From an architectural standpoint, the square footage may not change. From your Mortgage lender's standpoint it most likely will, since the appraiser is only going to look at usable square footage, a/k/a "gla" (gross living area). This is also a problem with losing bedrooms since Mortgage Lenders seem to think that 3 bedrooms is optimum and anything less than that the appraisers get battered, so they tend to have to discount somewhat for 2 bedroom units.

Still, it seems to me it should be somewhat cheaper since you are correct about the cost of the floor, walls, etc.

SHF

 

[Robert_in_NY]

It is a lot more work putting up second floor walls and ceilings when there is no second floor to work off of. The labor increases dramaticly even though some material decreases. Ends up off setting each other.

 

[JJT]

The price should go down but not by 100% of the deleted floor space. Let's say you deleted 20% of your total living space, the price should go down at least 10%, but not by the 20% downsize. Your footprint/foundation, walls and roof have not been downsized, and the HVAC cannot be downsized. Wiring may get more complex, with fewer interior walls to run things through and your windows will probably be upsized to take advantage of the tall walls.

What's your total living space? 3400 sq ft for 2 people would be a mansion around here... Are you doing any of the work yourself?

I built a timberframe home several years ago, ~3000sq ft, 3 bedrooms, 3 baths and lots of walk in closets. A few years later I added a 1000 sq ft TF garage. I spent a year cutting the white pine frame for the house, and another 18 months to get it livable. I'd do it again, but I don't think my wife would. We lived onsite for 3 years in a 60' mobile home with 2 kids and 2 newfies.

Feel free to drop me an email if you run into any roadblocks. Wiring, plumbing, HVAC can be a challenge. We hired a 10 ton truck crane for raising day, but he could only set the first bent, he was fully extended and didn't have the lift capacity to set bents 2 - 4. A few weeks later we had a 30 ton lattice crane set the last 3 bents.

 

[GlueGuy]

<font color=blue>The size of the home was 3379 sq.ft. before the bedroom/bathroomectomy. The size of the home after this operation? 3379 sq.ft.</font color=blue>

Unless the first floor changed dimensions, then these numbers are not apples to apples; they are apples to oranges. The square footage of the "footprint" may be the same, but the square footage of the living space has definitely changed.

If you have a plan, run the numbers yourself. It's not that hard.

 

[cp1969]

If it's 'way, way, over budget', I would suggest scaling it down. 3400 sq. ft. sounds like a huge house for two people.

 

[MarkV]

Jim,
If you are building something along the lines of the web site you listed, you are building my dream house. My wife and I are in a similar situation as you and yours. We have been looking and planning for that final home and timber frame is right at the top of our list. Unfortunately you and I are attracted to about the most expensive building system out there.

I’ve been in the building trades for a good many years and find that timber frame structures don’t follow any of the normal pricing guidelines. Such a high percentage of your building costs go to the frame and the skin over it that the interior partitions represents a very small percentage. It would seem with what you eliminated, particularly the bathroom, there should have been some change in the pricing. Robert brings up valid points but I would still expect a joist system, finish floor, staircase, partition walls, door units, electrical, plumbing, bath fixtures to represent something. I believe I would ask more questions.

By the way, DeKalb, Illinois is home ground for me. It has been 30 years since I’ve lived there but the folks are still up that way.

MarkV

 

[markinMn]

Jim, my wife and i spent the first 8 yrs of our marriage together dreaming of what kind of house to build and how to do it. We both spent the 70's and 80's with our noses glued to the pages of "Mother Earth News " and how we were going to in vest our money in some land and build a house out of salvaged matierals. We found 80 acres on the end of a township road and purchased c for deed. We had been saving garage-sale stuff for that 8 yrs in her uncles pole shed. When i say garage-sale stuff, i mean, doors,windows, lightfixtures, plumbing fixtures,(we found an old brass showerhead and valves for $3 that will wash your soul it has that much water coming at you) kitchen cabinets ect. Over this time, whenever any freinds or relatives needed help doing home projects like sheetrocking, roofing, remodling, or building,i would show up and help out. When asked what they owed me, i'd always tell them that someday i was going to build a cabin in the woods and would need their help then......In 1990, we were ready.We called menards and had materials delivered for a 26x36' garage. (2 ranch windows and no ovhd doors) We had the septic, and drilled well done, and a slab poured already to go.(done the week before by myself and cousins Jeff, and Roddy) Drain lines we installed first. Jeffrey went to plumbing school but never became one. Told zoning we were going to build a house but we were going to build a garage and live in that first while we built the house.( never did build THAT house) Fri. afternoon on a beautiful fall Oct. day my uncles, dad, and grandpa laid out the lumber after it was delivered to be ready the next day. On Sat., around 40 friends and relatives showed up with food, beer, tools. The men went to work framing, and the woman kept the worksite clean, and took care of the food. My wife had the neices and nephews painting door frames and window trim on saw horses( which was a real challenge) Sat.and Sun., the walls, siding and roof went up. Monday i had to go to work but my Dad, Grandpa, and neighbor of my Dads, showed up at the site and when i got there, they flipped me the keys! They had installed all the doors and windows! I got laid off 2 weeks later and spent the winter finishing the inside. Interior all open except one 1/4 was walled off for bathroom-utility room. Filled in spot between living area and bedroom area a few years later with book shelves. Oh yeah! We took out a pesonal loan for $8,000 to do all this! (yes that does include the drilled well and mound-type septic)......... Didn't mean to hog your thread, Jim, but maybe there's a few ideas to save a few bucks for you.......mark

 

[njrqs]

Being a Quantity Surveyor (Building Cost Estimator), we often price things by the m2 (Square Metre) - Square feet - same thing !!

Your Gross Floor Area (GFA) has reduced, there is no disputing that, but yes, some extra labour is needed for the nigher walls. So get them to revise their areas as there is something amiss there.

GFA is FECA (Fully Enclosed Covered Area) measured to the inside face of outside walls plus UCA (Unenclosed covered areas) eg. patios etc.

So while your GFA has reduced, the rate per square foot of remaining GFA may have increased.

Confused ????

Cheers

 

[JoeR]

I used to work in the family accounting business, and we have numerous contractors for customers. Many of them went out of business due to poor estimating. I have found that builders tend to over price custom homes for fear they are going to come up on the short end, while under price their spec homes. Of course, they built more spec homes, and in the end couldn't figure out why they were losing money...

When I went looking for a house, I asked around about good quality builders since I wanted a well built home. When I approached them with a 3,000 sqft plan I had, they all came up well over my budget. I then asked the builder if he had any plans that were close to what I was looking for. He said yes, and showed us the plan. His plan was 2,900 sqft. Since he had built the house before, he had a real good estimate on how much it would cost to build, and the price was $25K less than my custom plan. I realized that it was better to find a plan that the builder has already built, this way he does not add more money to the price for protection.

Good luck,

Joe

 

[Joe_W]

We are building a new house, and the original plans called for a 2nd story. We decided that the two of us didn't need the extra room, so we deleted the upstairs. We cut out about 1/3 of the square footage of the house, but retained the original roofline, and the price only came down by about 20%. Doesn't seem logical until you watch them building it, and then you see how little you reduced their work and materials.

Joe W.

 

[webbmeister]

Thanks for all the information everyone. I used quite a bit of what you've had to say when one of the two possible contractors visited tonight. I got the price down a little, but it didn't really come down a lot until I gave up my shop. Even then it was more than we are willing to put out, and to be truthful, I love woodworking and I'm not ready to give up my shop. So, back to the drawing board, literally.Thanks again. You guys are great!

 

[GlueGuy]

Have you considered building some of it yourself? It's a great way to reduce the cost of labor. A friend hired a contractor to do a remodel of his house and a new garage. The price came in too high, so he had them just pour the slab for the garage, and he & I built it. Not too big of a deal, and I think the quality of the construction was first rate. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

 

[MDNick]

Mark,

I have heard of lots of barn raisings, but that is the first House Raising I have ever heard of.

Saw on TLC or Discover over the weekend, a habitat for humanity house that they were going for the record time in building a full sized ranch home. 4hrs 35 mins I believe. They started from the foundation and slab. The framing, roof, drywall, electrical, trim, paint, carpet, etc. done in that time. Something like 300 people total. I wondered about the drywall, how they got that done, used something called 20 minute mud. Sandable in 20 minutes. 4 inspectors on the job, claimed to be to the quality of any standard framed built home. Don't know the square footage, but that's a lot of work in 4 hrs and 35 mins.

Nick

 

[Robert_in_NY]

They would probally have used ezsand 20. It sets up extremly fast and you can sand it and paint it in 20 minutes just don't mix too much or you have a lot of fun cleaning up your equipment. We use ezsand 45 as it gives us more play time in case we run into any problems.

 

[kiphorn]

I'm preparing to start construction on a log home next month. Over the last several years I spoke to several people that saved some money by having a contractor erect the shell of the house and they completed the interior work themselves. If your handy and know a plumber, electrican and heating contractor that will work cheap this could save you $$$.

I considered this option but my wife wanted to get in the house right away. It would have definitely taken longer because I could only work on the house evenings and weekends.

Good luck, don't give up on your dream yet!


Kip

 

[hwp]

When we bought our current house its was just a shell. The exterior was sided but there was no interior finishing- just insulation and vapour barrier. I was fortunate to be able to be able to arrange my work schedule to get a lot of time to work on the house. A friend who is a carpenter helped me. I had tradespeople do all the techincal stuff - wiring, plumbing, heating, etc. but we did every thing else. We moved into thehouse three months after we bought it. I never priced it out but my guess is that we saved at least $50 000 and got much better quality because we took the time to do things right.

 

[Thomas]

When I built my home back in late 70's it cost $55.oo a square to have a contractor to build it.
After talking to many others I decide to built it myself.
I did about everything except the drilling of the well,septic,cement foundation,dozing.
One honest contactor did tell me 2/3 of the cost having a house built is labor,and I could pound nails as good as the next guy,and if I wanted to take a break it wouldn't cost me anything.
I'm not sure what it would cost far as square foot to have a house bulit,but do what ever you can by yourself to save.

 

[shade2u2]

I've been piecing things together for the past 2 years for building our house. Originally, I planned to contract myself while doing some of the work myself, but determined that it wasn't the best way to go for me. I finally put a deal together with a good local general contractor to build our dream house -> 28X32 2 story - 2 car attached garage - 24X32 barn. The house (1792 sq ft) comes out about $52/sq ft /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif -including the garage in that price. A buddy(w/trac-hoe) & I are doing the drive, utility hookups, & septic. The contractor seems great so far... I think that my patience has paid off. This is just a basic farm house, but with the important items (large footers with inside & outside drains, poured walls, walk out basement, 8' deep(X32) front porch, 2X6 walls, tyvek, just 6/12 pitch, layered shingles, cedar look vinyl, chimney & extras that we wanted - not a fancy mansion to most... but everything that we want. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[DVerbarg]

The cost of builing a house is a rather sore topic around here. We started a house building project estimating the cost around $100/sq ft. After 9 months of changes, upgrades, etc we ended up moving into the house 95% done but at a cost of over $120/sq ft /w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif and we still have some expenses left (gutters, landscaping, basement electrical) that will drive that up even more. This was after doing many things ourselves. Saved over $40k in labor costs!

We fell into the "were doing this once, so do it right" trap and as a result will take 12 years to pay off instead of 4. Ooops! But we enjoy the house and will enjoy it even more once we finish! /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif