The gully to pond project

[jinman]

With all the dams he is planning an old earth mover scraper would really do the job. They scoop it up, haul 17 tons per load, depending on size, and spread it at the delivery point.
Some of the old ones can be had for $20-40k.

Ron, at some point you either have to have a BUNCH of money tied up in equipment or take the chance on having to spend a BUNCH of money to fix it. With this TLB I own, my repairs have really been minor, being mostly hose replacements. I'm very afraid of buying an old dozer or scraper and end up with it broke and being a yard ornament because I can't afford to fix it. That has me thinking about hiring a dozer or renting one. I can pay someone for 100 hours of dozer operation much easier than getting stuck with a $10k-$20k bill for fixing something broken on a machine I own.

 

[pacerron]

Ron, at some point you either have to have a BUNCH of money tied up in equipment or take the chance on having to spend a BUNCH of money to fix it. With this TLB I own, my repairs have really been minor, being mostly hose replacements. I'm very afraid of buying an old dozer or scraper and end up with it broke and being a yard ornament because I can't afford to fix it. That has me thinking about hiring a dozer or renting one. I can pay someone for 100 hours of dozer operation much easier than getting stuck with a $10k-$20k bill for fixing something broken on a machine I own.

I agree with the expense factor.
However, after looking at your Hollywood production on U-tube, a dozer alone having to push dirt all the way from your "clay mine" would not be anymore efficient than your FEL method. Perhaps a dozer and a Yuke or a dozer and a scraper earthmover in combination. Either renting the equipment or hiring the work done, after a good plan is drawn up and any drainage materials are on hand could give you a finished group of ponds with plenty to do yourself getting ground cover established to control erosion and maintaining it.
I really think you enjoy doing it yourself by your present method.
Your comment about "there's gotta be a better way" is very true, but we all say that whether we are making hay, cutting timber, building a barn, or worst of all, painting.
Besides, think of all the TBN "couch potatoes" that would have withdrawal symptoms if they couldn't follow your projects:thumbsup:

 

[beppington]

Jim - Maybe you could rent a dump truck & save the hours on your tractor?

 

[20 20]

Jim - Maybe you could rent a dump truck & save the hours on your tractor?

That's why I built a dump trailer, works much faster and tear things up less :thumbsup: I also have a small dump truck that has proven to be worth it's weight in gold, too me.

 

[jinman]

Guys, I have a 7-yd dump trailer, but have chosen not to use it for two primary reasons:

1. Dump trailers or dump trucks are most efficient when you have two operators. As a matter of fact, three dump trailers/trucks and operators is the best because you can always be filling one while the other two are dumping or in transit. I think it was Eddie Walker who pointed out just what a pain in the butt it is to fill a dump truck, shut off the tractor or leave it idling, get off the tractor and into the dump truck, transport the load and dump it, return to the tractor area, and get out of the truck and onto the tractor. One person running a tractor and dump vehicle is a butt whoopin'; especially for short runs of a few thousand feet.

2. With my 4WD TLB, I can drive down the slope on either side of the dam and put my load of dirt exactly where I need it. Since the gully is really a big "V" shape, I can enter at the bottom of the "V" or from one side or the other. My "V" is more of a "U" a it has water in front of it. It's also blocked from the rear by 100' of knee-deep silt where I can't drive the tractor. So I only have the sides of the gully to dump materials. That means I have to maneuver a large dump vehicle right up to the gully side and dump over into the gully. After several loads, I'd have to bring the tractor to move materials and spread them. So the dump can't put the materials at an exact location like the TLB.

I also have problems pulling the dump trailer when it is full with my 45 hp tractor that weighs in a bit over 5000 lb. With 4 yards of material, the trailer weighs about 12,000 lb. I can put that much into the trailer in 3 scoops with my TLB. My wife timed me and said I can make a full round-trip in 5 minutes. That means I can use my TLB and get the material hauled in 15 min that I would be able to haul with the trailer in ??? minutes for a cycle.

I guess it comes down to needing another person to run the trailer or needing to haul materials a half mile or more over flat terrain to make the dump trailer feasible. That's my reasoning at least.

Eddie Walker: If you see this post, please feel free to add your comments either in agreement or disagreement. Your experience probably is closer to mine than anybody else.

 

[beppington]

...

I guess it comes down to needing another person to run the trailer or needing to haul materials a half mile or more over flat terrain to make the dump trailer feasible. That's my reasoning at least.

...

Weeeelllll ... the wife can't be doing anything important anyway. Recruit her! :thumbsup: :laughing:

 

[EddieWalker]

Eddie Walker: If you see this post, please feel free to add your comments either in agreement or disagreement. Your experience probably is closer to mine than anybody else.

I don't have a dump trailer, so I'm not sure what tha't like. With my dump truck, I can load it with the backhoe and drive it to where I want it so much faster that it's not even comparable. The only time I haul dirt with my bucket is for very small jobs, or very short distances. A hundred yards and I'm using the dump truck.

I've also found that if the dirt has sat for awhile and compacted itself, or if I'm digging new dirt, it's faster and easier to dig and load with the hoe bucket then to use the front bucket. It takes too much time to load it, drive to the dump truck, dump it and do it all over again.

It just takes a few seconds to get off the backhoe and into the dump truck, so the transition from one to the other really isn't a factor. When my Dad is here, he will drive the dump truck, but overall, I don't think we really save much time. While he's dumping the load, I reposition and clean up the loading area, but mostly I just sit and wait. If I could trust him on the dozer, I would load and drive while he worked at spreading the dirt. Or if I could trust him to load without digging a deeper hole or doing something that I have to come back and undo, then I would be on the dozer. That would speed things up considerably.

As for the hoses, it only gets worse. You will get faster at the easy hoses, but there are some under your backhoe that will require five hoses to come off to get to the one that is leaking!!!!

Field repairs make it even more memorable

To cut the hoses, I like to use my cordless sawzall with a fine tooth, metal cutting blade. I've found that once the hose is cut, I can sometimes get it off my just turning the hose with my hand. Other times, it just gives me the room to get in there and get enough leverage to break it loose.

Hoses are nothing compared to rebuilding the cylinders. The worse ones are the ones that move the hoe from side to side. That is just pure MISERY!!!!

Eddie

 

[jinman]

Thanks for the summary, Eddie. I just may have to try my dump trailer if I can figure out a way to pull it where my smaller tractor can do it. A dump truck would be easier too, but I just don't see one of those in my future. When I was hauling in dirt for my garden, the dump trailer worked great. The only problem was pulling up steep slopes. But, that was a half-mile haul (mostly on gravel) instead of around 800 ft across rough terrain. I kinda feel like a bartender at a wine tasting room who only has a Swiss Army Knife to use as a corkscrew. My TLB will haul dirt, but like the knife that has the corkscrew, that's not what it does best.

 

[PAGUY]

I figure you both have the right idea for your particular situation. There is no right or wrong way to move dirt. You do what you have to do with the equipment you have to do the job. Excavators, scrapers, dozers are the way to go if you do it for a living as time is money and the easier heavy duty construction equipment is the way to go but for the D-I-Y labor time is not in the equation.

Eddie and Jim - You both make us proud of your accomplishments otherwise why would we return everyday to see what's new.

 

[beppington]

Thanks for the summary, Eddie. I just may have to try my dump trailer if I can figure out a way to pull it where my smaller tractor can do it. A dump truck would be easier too, but I just don't see one of those in my future. When I was hauling in dirt for my garden, the dump trailer worked great. The only problem was pulling up steep slopes. But, that was a half-mile haul (mostly on gravel) instead of around 800 ft across rough terrain. I kinda feel like a bartender at a wine tasting room who only has a Swiss Army Knife to use as a corkscrew. My TLB will haul dirt, but like the knife that has the corkscrew, that's not what it does best.

Rental?

 

[jinman]

Rental?

Maybe I just need a bigger tractor to pull my dump trailer. Hmm. . . that has a nice sound to it. For the next project, I'll think seriously about maybe buying a big used farm tractor with GOOD BRAKES to pull the trailer.

 

[pacerron]

Maybe I just need a bigger tractor to pull my dump trailer. Hmm. . . that has a nice sound to it. For the next project, I'll think seriously about maybe buying a big used farm tractor with GOOD BRAKES to pull the trailer.

Beppington's idea of rental of a dump truck sounds reasonable. If the construction industry is anywhere near as flat there as here there are probably many dump trucks, with driver that would help you for a good price just waiting for the phone to ring. Maybe even a local vocational school that would like to give the students an experience of more than moving a load of dirt from one side of a parking lot to another.
My original suggestion of an earthmover scraper probably was a bit far out for what your doing, although the scrap value of them almost equals the selling price anymore. I guess I was just reminiscing of days long past when
I was in USAF Prime Beef. Lots of big toys, for lots of big projects.
You know what they say: " The difference between men and boys, is the price of their toys"

 

[bindian]

Maybe I just need a bigger tractor to pull my dump trailer. Hmm. . . that has a nice sound to it. For the next project, I'll think seriously about maybe buying a big used farm tractor with GOOD BRAKES to pull the trailer.

Jim,
A big, old, farm tractor...only 2WD with no hydraulics, only a draw bar, can pull, pull, pull! They are cheap too!
hugs, Brandi

 

[ronjhall]

Maybe I just need a bigger tractor to pull my dump trailer. Hmm. . . that has a nice sound to it. For the next project, I'll think seriously about maybe buying a big used farm tractor with GOOD BRAKES to pull the trailer.

How about putting a brake controller on your current tractor?

 

[jinman]

How about putting a brake controller on your current tractor?

Well, brakes are not the issue with the blue tractor. Pulling uphill with the wheels spinning is its major problem. However, I am thinking of putting a brake controller on the trailer. It has its own battery for the hydraulic pump, so I could add a brake controller inside that box that should work with any towing vehicle. As Brandi pointed out, big ol' 2wd farm tractors are cheap, but many/most of them have poor brakes from pulling too many hay wagons or just neglect. I might have to buy a "beast" and fix its brakes right away.

 

[jinman]

Well, I get the dummy award for not getting pictures (I had my camera in the Kawasaki Mule, but forgot to use it.), but yesterday I stocked my first little pond that has been nearly full for several weeks. I put in 10 lb of fathead minnows (too many, I know), about 50 coppernose bluegill, and 30 channel catfish (4"-6"). I need to fertilize the pond in a hurry and will be feeding the catfish every other day. I also need to put in a spawing structure for the minnows. One article I read said to go to grocery stores and get their waxed cardboard boxes that frozen food comes in. That seems a bit trashy lookin' for a pond, so I may look for other methods. What you need is somewhere for the minnows to attach their eggs because they spawn 2 or 3 times per year.

 

[bindian]

Well, I get the dummy award for not getting pictures (I had my camera in the Kawasaki Mule, but forgot to use it.), but yesterday I stocked my first little pond that has been nearly full for several weeks. I put in 10 lb of fathead minnows (too many, I know), about 50 coppernose bluegill, and 30 channel catfish (4"-6"). I need to fertilize the pond in a hurry and will be feeding the catfish every other day. I also need to put in a spawing structure for the minnows. One article I read said to go to grocery stores and get their waxed cardboard boxes that frozen food comes in. That seems a bit trashy lookin' for a pond, so I may look for other methods. What you need is somewhere for the minnows to attach their eggs because they spawn 2 or 3 times per year.

Jim,
My county extension agent told me to put wooden (oak preferred) pallets in for the fatheads. The inner structure of the pallet gives the fatheads perfect places to attach eggs and it makes it harder for the cats to catch the fry. I change the pallet out every year. I weight it down with two cinder blocks.
hugs, Brandi

 

[jinman]

Jim,
My county extension agent told me to put wooden (oak preferred) pallets in for the fatheads. The inner structure of the pallet gives the fatheads perfect places to attach eggs and it makes it harder for the cats to catch the fry. I change the pallet out every year. I weight it down with two cinder blocks.
hugs, Brandi

I think I have the perfect solution. We have bunches of old black soaker hoses that have broken and are no longer used. I'm going to cut 2' sections and bundle them together in groups of a dozen so that there are 24 openings. I can make two of these from each 50' hose. I'll put maybe 10 of these at locations around the pond and weight them to be sure they reach the bottom. The inside of the hose sections should be ideal for the little minnows to lay eggs and be far away from bluegill or catfish coming to dine. I'll take pictures of my pond critters when I get them ready.

 

[jinman]

We threw out half a coffee can full of catfish food yesterday morning and just before sunset last night. I was hoping to see some of the little catfish fingerlings coming to the surface for a sample, but they didn't. All we saw was fathead minnows nibbling at the floating pellets and a couple of bluegill popping up to the surface for a bite. Perhaps the catfish were too shy. They may still be settling into their new home and not in the mood to eat.

I've also added another 3' to the dam over the last couple of days, but I'm not posting pictures until it gets dramatically bigger. Of course, it rains a bunch and water levels rise, I'll take photos of that. For now, it's just a dam getting taller at a slow and steady pace. I can tell you that compacting every square inch of the dam is very time consuming, but also so important. I sure am glad the shuttle lever on my tractor is brand new. It's gettin' a workout.

 

[EddieWalker]

I've read a lot of stories about structure, and seen some of the pictures that those guys come up with. I'm even guilty of building a few of them out of PVC pipe myself. Now I think that branches and trees work the best. Seeing the activity around my bush piles leaves no doubt that they use those area, and the more you have, the more fish will use it.

Just prune your trees and put the branches along the shore. Make a mess and pile them up. The uglier it is to us, the prettier it is for the fish!!!!

Eddie