Thanks to George...

/ Thanks to George... #21  
Re: Thanks to George...Not

DrDan, If you look into it carefully, you will find that the Democrats added the $300 that you will be getting back soon to the Republican bill. Your thanks for the $300 would have to go to the Democrats.

Andy
 
/ Thanks to George...
  • Thread Starter
#22  
Re: Thanks to George...Not

Oh well that shows ya what I know. I so damn busy just earning $$$ to pay taxes and health insurance that I don't get time to follow the bills. Sorry for the error. Them Dem's are the greatest <spenders I've ever seen>! I just think we are overgoverned. That's my opinion. I know the masses want more from government, but I'd prefer less and pay less tax. It is incredible that money can be squandered so senselessly by these people. The $350 toilet seat is for real! I think we need a massive phase out of the "do for me movement"! I don't even believe in unemployment. I figure if ya hungry enough you could do some menial labor at some occupation for a meal and a warm bed. If you are unproductive then you don't deserve much more. Where did the concept come from that we have to provide for those who take no initiative to provide for themselves? I just think anything government attempts to rule or do ends up a total disaster that the workers of the country have to fund.

Dr Dan
 
/ Thanks to George... #23  
Re: Thanks to George...Not

Now that's not true! What do you mean the democrats put that in? That has been on the table to give the taxpayers a refund since before Bush was even elected, the only question was how much he was going to be able to give back if he was elected. That is simply not true. From the time the election was over until the time this thing came to be passed by the house and into the senate the democrats opposed this tax cut using fear tactics saying this money was going to come from social security and medicare and their benefits would be cut to pay for it. The $300 was only a compromise not their idea!!!

18-35034-TRACTO~1.GIF
 
/ Thanks to George... #24  
Bird, I have to disagree with you on how government is funded. But before I begin, let me preface my remarks by saying that my own philosophy is mainstream conservative Republican. I believe in efficient govenment, not no government. The government's budget and spending priorities are not developed in a vacuum, they are driven by the tax-paying constituents back at home. We're all guilty-every last one of us, of requesting goodies from the government. Inner city poor folks certainly have different priorities than us rural folks, but we all like our services. Come-on, fess up -what's the difference between urban health care for the poor, Veterens Administration free health care for every ex-military person, or USDA programs for rural landowners? Everyone thinks that their own want is somehow special, and very few of us are willing to give up our special service. Collectively, all of these demands reach the federal government and the budget is formed. Nobody is willing to admit that they actually like things the way they are, they just don't want to pay for them. Sure, the government spends lots of our money. Take a look in the mirror to find out why. Personally, I would be willing to give up some services in exchange for keeping more of my money. But my opinion is no doubt in the minority.
 
/ Thanks to George... #25  
Jim, your point's well taken, and quite true. But of course nothing's quite as simple as either of us make it sound in our messages here./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

Bird
 
/ Thanks to George... #26  
Re: Thanks to George...Not

The tax cuts is the perfect way to tell the difference between the dems and reps. The dems wanted the tax cut to be welfare, and the reason for this is that dems need victims for their support. Victims never find success. All of us can relate for at ny point in time in our lives, when we start to feel like failures, we will fail. When we get out mindset right, we succeed. Why do dems fight inproving public education, thy want to have victims or failures so they have a base of voters they can promise to give thing to, which they never do anyway. Our country needs to be based on success and victims. Who would want a job if you are payed the same amount as someone who has been working in the field for years, no growth, no future. Everyone should pay the same amount of tax no matter of income. If that happen everyone would pay less.

Dan L
 
/ Thanks to George... #27  
jyoutz,
Yes I believe you are right that alot of people want something from the government but I strongly disagree that we all do. The problem is that as Bird and some others have said is that the fed. government has grown so massive, #1 employer in the country, and gotten into so many people's back pockets on purpose!!! They give to everyone and promise to everyone so that they can get you hooked. It truly is a two-headed monster out of control. I talked to an ex-senator last year and he is the one that told me all of this. He said their plan has always been to get as many people as possible dependent on the government since the FDR years. I for one and I'm sure others here do not want a thing from the government except to just let us be. Yes we need to pay taxes and we need government but it doesn't have to be the #1 employer in the country and it doesn't have to be in every single person's back pocket. I can't think of one single thing that the government gives me. I have roads, police, army, etc. and I'm all for those things but I don't get any other special deals and I don't want any.

Here in Iowa right now all anyone can talk about is how much money they're going to get from the government to rebuild from the flood, what a bunch of bull!! This same thing happened a few years ago and we knew it was going to happen again yet people just took the free money and built again. Now it's happened again and they just want the free money to build up again. What a waste. These people know they are in a flood plain, they knew it would flood again, why is that the federal taxpayers problem? Now tornados, hurricanes, etc. fine help them out but this is a bunch of bull these people knew that this would happen again but they didn't care because they knew that the government would just give them the money to rebuild. When the federal guy was here to assess the situation he said that he wasn't sure if funds were going to be given to the people here because they knew this would happen again and still rebuilt in the same flood plains and nothing was done from the 100 million they were given the last time to keep this from happening again. That's the kind of waste I'm talking about.

Lastly as far as taxes go why not just have a flat tax? Throw out all the loopholes and everything and just pay x amount of what you make. I'd be all for that. I know there is no perfect system but everyday we move more and more towards a socialist republic, we're really already there except for healthcare, and maybe that's what people want but it's not what I want.

18-35034-TRACTO~1.GIF
 
/ Thanks to George... #28  
That's the best reason to keep money local instead of sending it off to Washington. If the locals had to rebuild with their own money they wouldn't do it. With our current system we send $0.01 to the local governent, $0.20 to the state governement and a $1.00 to the federal governemnt. The feds skim off $0.75 and makes the locals jump through hoops fighting among themselves to get $0.25 back for local projects. The $0.25 has so many strings attached it's almost not worth the effort. How did we get here? Why must the Fed be given the money first. It's like the corrupt charities. You feel good giving them $1.00 but then you find out that after administration costs they only have $0.10 for the intended purpose.
When the liberal voters realize that the Federal Government isn't their rich uncle handing out money but instead a business middleman skimming we might be able to turn this around. I'm all for sending money to the Feds for a national defense, but I for the life of me don't understand why their involved in the offramp you take to get to my house.

Branch
 
/ Thanks to George... #29  
Your moniker is certainly appropriate. But let me clarify a few things, since you are a bit misguided, not to mention rude for getting so personal and aggressive, when everyone else has been throwing their opinions into the forum like gentlemen.

Teachers do test to get into the profession.
We do not manufacture a product, we help children develop their minds.
The work is not easy - as some children do not come to school on a regular basis, come to school unfed, come to school having been abused the night before - and some kids just don't care to learn.
And... if I teach a student to spell, or type the word COMMUNIST, and they still spell or type it CIOMMUNIST at their job interview - I must be to blame.
We are not a business, for crying out loud, we are dealing with our children.
And if I wanted to make money, trust me I would have left for the private sector - but I chose to teach. You may not realize this, but many talented, intelligent, ambitious individuals ignore the teaching profession because they can make more elsewhere.
After reading your bitter account of the state of affairs here in the U.S. - I wonder if maybe it isn't you who is living in the wrong country. I here Canada is beautiful.
 
/ Thanks to George... #30  
Three cheers for George WD40 Bush, Oil slick Dick Cheney,
and the Grand Old Petroleum, err I mean Grand Old Party!!!!
 
/ Thanks to George... #31  
Hess
You have my admiration for sticking it out as a teacher. There is no way I could sit in a class and try to teach the smart mouthed, hideous looking, little spoiled brats. What I saw of the kids that attended our local high school was enough to turn my stomach, especially with their parents backing them up.
I remember getting in trouble at school for questionable behavior and then getting in twice as much trouble when I got home. What I understood from the teachers at my kids school was that the parents would come in and raise hell if their little Johnny was corrected for anything. How can you possibly teach in that kind of environment.
My parents, and my wifes parents, were taught in one room schools where everything was shared because there wasn't enough to go around. Money wasn't just tight, it was non-existent. They learned to read, write, and go on to make something of themselves. So I come to the conclusion that money isn't at the root of the trouble, it's the parents. If the parents instill a desire to learn and then back it up with support it seems like a bad teacher would only be a small percentage of the problem. The kids don't have just one teacher like the old one room schools where one teacher taught it all. They have multiple teachers through the years so it would lead me to believe that every teacher would have to be bad, and that just isn't realistic.
What am I missing here?

Branch
 
/ Thanks to George... #32  
Branch, I think a lot of us grew up as you apparently did. I know we understood from the time we started school that if we got a whipping in school, we'd get another one when we got home, and my dad didn't believe in spanking kids; he believed in just beatin' the livin' stuffing out of 'em. So if we got in trouble at school, we sure as heck didn't say anything about it at home; just hoped the teacher didn't tell our parents.

And yes, there are bad teachers, just as there are good and bad in every profession. And some may get bad rapped when it isn't their fault. I'll never forget when our oldest daughter went into the 3rd grade, a couple of neighbors told my wife she should go to the school and ask that our daughter be put in a different class with a different teacher than the one she was assigned to. They said that old woman was just plain mean to the kids and too rough on them. So my wife was ready to do it, until I told her no, that we weren't going to do that because the kid was going to have to deal with all kinds of personalities later in life and she might just as well start learning that now. And you know she just got along fine with that teacher and never had a problem.

One thing that does concern me is the "social" promotions through school without the kids learning; maybe not the teachers' fault. But when I was in charge of our personnel division, we had job applicants with bachelors degrees who could not spell, could not write a complete sentence or paragraph, and frequently could not read at what I would consider junior high school level. And just as bad was the number of notes, announcements, etc. that our girls brought home from high school written by teachers, and the notes would be full of spelling and grammatical errors. That made me wonder about the quality of the teachers. And of course, not being much of a sports fan, the fact that the football coach was the highest paid "teacher" in the school really teed me off.

Ooops, time for me to get off my soapbox.

Bird
 
/ Thanks to George... #33  
Yeah Bird, I didn't mean to sound personal with my response, but I am a federal employee and I know first hand that many of the folks who complain about the government the most, are the first to call their congressman when their favorite federal goody is threatened. Since I'm a forester, I will use this example: most everyone is in favor of national forestlands to be set aside for public use, but people squeal like crazy when federal agencies attempt to harvest timber or lease grazing on these lands. Everyone wants a freebe place to recreate but nobody wants to pay the taxes to permit proper management of these lands. Oh yeah, the federal agencies must also protect private lands from wildfire and people also expect this for nothing. I could go on and on. My years with the government have caused me to firmly believe that the majority of the people are very happy with the system of government we have and the way that money is spent (rather or not it makes any sense). Congress really does respond to it's constituents, and most constituents say gimme. I don't think that any class of people are exempt. When I worked for state forestry, I was often surprised that the most vocal local landowners who vote conservative were the ones always calling me to ask about new federal cost-sharing money for conservation reserve, forestry incentives program, ect... Then they would have a letter to the editor in next weeks paper, complaining about federal spending and taxes.
 
/ Thanks to George... #34  
Cowboy Doc, I'm not saying that I don't agree with much of what you say here. I'm just saying that I think that we are greatly outnumbered by those who like things the way they are. Sadly, most Americans like a little bit of socialism. FDR's legacy (curse?) lives on. You've illustrated this point very well in your discussion about the Iowa flooding. I'm all for the flat tax, but of course the entrenched lawyers and charities (and many businesses) will never permit that to happen.
 
/ Thanks to George... #35  
Thanks Branch,
And, you're right things have gotten somewhat out of control. Much of what is wrong rests with the parents, and the way we finance our public school system. Neither of which is going to change anytime soon.
Parents are the greatest teachers to their children (good or bad), but there is no "test" in order to become one.
Second, schools should not be financed based on property values. This makes it next to impossible for poorer districts (inner city, rural areas) to afford the best teachers, who often choose to work in elite, suburban schools, where the pay is better.
Finally, I'd be a hypocrite not to acknowledge the rise in the number of poorly trained teachers coming into the profession over the past several years. And while unions have protected millions of Americans over the past century, they also shelter the incompetent. Our union is a strong one (for better and worse), and they represent everyone who pay their dues, equally.
Surprisingly, a lot of these "poor" teachers have come out of the private sector. For example, we have a medical doctor who now teaches science. Although he is certainly very knowledgeable man, he cannot control his classes, and he frequently stops by for advice.
I guess that its best to ask an electrician for electrical advice, a doctor for medical advice, and a trained teacher for advice on how to best educate young people.
And I know what you mean about your parents, my father was the same way with us. I learned a lot about respecting the authority of adults.
 
/ Thanks to George... #36  
I got a novel idea! How about charging every one a flat percentage of their income! No deductions ,just a flat tax..The more you make , the more you pay! But everybody pays the same pecentage...I guess something so simple would put all of the politicians out of work..

Hoghead
 
/ Thanks to George... #37  
Bird,
It still seems to go back to personal responsibility and intestinal fortitude. If we strive for excellence some will attain it. Others will fail like they always have. Social advancement just sets the bar so low we guarantee a mediocre outcome.
Looking back at the things people have accomplished in this country just makes you wonder how we got here. The people who put a man on the moon, eliminated polio, dreamed up the integrated circuit, radio, television. Just about everything we take for granted today came from people who learned the 3R's under a very remedial system by todays standards. We have the history to look back on and determine how we accomplished so much. There have always been great teachers and horrible teachers, great students and horrible students. Like Hess said, it's not a bussiness where you make something and have control over the raw material. WE send our kids to school and WE are responsible for the outcome. If my child can't read, I too have failed. I should have been tutoring my kids at night to guarantee they could read. No amount of money poured into the schools is going to change the fact that parents are responsible for their childrens welfare.
You made the decision to keep your daughter in that classroom for all the right reasons. I couldn't agree with you more. Life has it's ups and downs and the only way you become a well rounded person is to experience it. Adversity builds strength.
Friends of mine escaped communist Romania 17 years ago. They came here barely able to understand our language and took very low paying jobs so they could put food on the table. What they tell me is that the worst of times here was nothing compared to where they came from. They can't understand how anyone fails in the United States. They truly see nothing but great opportunity for those that want to work and they despise the lazy communists in Romania. To them communism is a wealthy ruling class that keeps the average person in mediocre living conditions so that they can be controlled. Make them believe that their hardships are caused by their greedy neighbors. In the end only those that rule have money, the masses bicker among themselves for the scraps. They own a business now and have some Romanians working for them that still haven't shrugged the communist work ethics. They still want to be cared for the way the government did back in Romania.
Self reliance is power, dependence is deterioration.

Branch
 
/ Thanks to George... #38  
<font color=blue>Lastly as far as taxes go why not just have a flat tax? Throw out all the loopholes and
everything and just pay x amount of what you make.</font color=blue>
Hey Richard, I think your on to something. But what about a flat rate SALES tax. You pay taxes only on stuff you buy(both state and federal). If you want to save your money for the future, It's tax free. Most states have sales tax collection systems already in place, expand on that to get a federal sales tax and do away with the income tax. If you go to work for a company at 45,000 a year, you take home 45,000 a year.

Steve
 
/ Thanks to George... #39  
<font color=blue>Hey Richard, I think your on to something. But what about a flat rate SALES tax. </font color=blue>

Steve,
Former Congressman Archer has been pushing a Sales (or Value Added) tax as a replacement for the income tax for years.

A key benefit is that savings and investment are encouraged. What you spend is taxed what you save is not, until you eventuly spend it.

The downside is the danger is that the income tax could come back and we would pay both.


Ed
 
/ Thanks to George... #40  
I'll agree with anything that is fair and simple like that. Same thing you know why do we have to have a 7% sales tax, 15% state tax, and about a 5% property tax? And the 5% property tax is the most unfair of all!!! How in the world is it fair that you pay tax on the money that bought the property and then even after it's paid off you still have to pay tax just to own it? I mean seriously what kind of a midieval, frutal, archaic deal is that? I just don't get that one. Don't give me the crap about if you own property then you are worth something. I know people everyday that have to sell their property or farms because they can't even afford the property tax on them. Then like in Bozeman, MT where my wife is from it becomes the hottest spot for Calif. to move into. Well they go there and have tons of money and drive up the property values. Then the guy that was born and raised there and makes a simple and modest living gets his property taxes jacked up so high that he can no longer afford them. A state income tax and a sales tax should be enough.

18-35034-TRACTO~1.GIF
 

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