Texas Heat!

[RobertN]

Our department has lost two firefighters in the last five years. Cancer got them. One in late 30's, the other early 40's. For their funerals, most of our Dept attended, and the procession included all of our apparatus.

Our stations were backfilled by engine and ladder companies from surrounding districts. Most were crews that came in on their days off to staff their own backup equipment, in our District. Three of the engines even had a structure fire in the core of our District during one of the funerals. Our District has reciprocated in kind by helping in similar instances.

It is highly unusual to jump on another districts engine, without training and familiarity. Plus, there are Unions, liability, insurance...

Don,
Isn't that what firefighters do when they go to a funeral? Other department' firefighters man the absent fire fighter's equipment?i

 

[bindian]

Our department has lost two firefighters in the last five years. Cancer got them. One in late 30's, the other early 40's. For their funerals, most of our Dept attended, and the procession included all of our apparatus.

Our stations were backfilled by engine and ladder companies from surrounding districts. Most were crews that came in on their days off to staff their own backup equipment, in our District. Three of the engines even had a structure fire in the core of our District during one of the funerals. Our District has reciprocated in kind by helping in similar instances.

It is highly unusual to jump on another districts engine, without training and familiarity. Plus, there are Unions, liability, insurance...

Robert,
That may be all fine in California. But I was asking Txdon here in Texas about it, since he mentioned it and he is involved in the local departments.
Brandi

 

[charliepff]

Two Bit Score,
It was not a political shot. It was a fact that has affected the whole country not just Texas. Secondly, someone else tried to blame Ron Paul. Setting the facts straight in case someone would like to wright a letter to the people in charge to change the cutbacks.I believe first mentioned by Larry? I believe I have contributed to this thread in a positive and educational way. Nothing was my personal opinion. All of it was facts. Nothing was taking cheap shots at anyone. If I am not contributing in a positive way please tell me and I will stop posting.

Robert,
That may be all fine in California. But I was asking Txdon here in Texas about it, since he mentioned it and he is involved in the local departments.
Brandi

Brandi
Unfortanately there are standards to be followed across the US. Texas or not. When a fire gets this large it is head up by a multi agency National Incident Command System. This is very cut and dry and specific on who is in charge of what, where you should report and so on. This persons action affects accountability on a scene. Incident commanders need to know what people are on each piece, where they are and what they are doing at all times. I understand the need to help and motivation for it but it can turn into a bad situation really fast. Also, he is technically violating his chain of command. If I did that when I volunteered my Chief would have had my behind and would have every right to it.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

Robert,
That may be all fine in California. But I was asking Txdon here in Texas about it, since he mentioned it and he is involved in the local departments.
Brandi

Robert is an expert. He lives in a part of the country where wildfires are a part of life. If you send a bunch of amateurs out to fight a wildfire without a support framework, you will either have to spend a bunch of resources to rescue them when they get in trouble, or you will end up with a bunch of dead amateurs.

In this case, the Incident Commander decided not to resource anything smaller than an engine company. It was a sound decision. Texas or not, the rules of fire fighting don't change. It's apparent that Texas is not used to the wildfire conditions common farther west, which has led to a lack of both preparation and training. Your state will be better served by importing trained and equipped teams from other states.

 

[bindian]

Larry and Charlie,
Like Robert said, it is highly unusual. This said, national rules, regulations and chains of command are not being questioned here. There are numerous fires around here that are being fought by volunteer fire departments. Txdon mentioned maybe a crew could use another crew's equipment while they are resting. This is what I was inquiring about to Txdon. Since he is in the local volunteer departments, only he knows if volunteers "could" be needed elsewhere. This is why I am put off with the statement telling people that want to help to just go home.
The fire I commented about using my tractor on is an hour and a half drive away from the Bastrop fire. Volunteer fire departments are it. Thus said, not being a local can not answer with out being on the scene, like Txdon is.
hugs, Brandi

 

[two_bit_score]

Charliepff and Larry Caldwell, it's a real shame that a thread about Texas weather which later turned into a thread about a very unfortunate disaster was turned political by your cheap shots. No matter how you call it that is what your comments are.

 

[txdon]

Don,
Isn't that what firefighters do when they go to a funeral? Other department' firefighters man the absent fire fighter's equipment?

Have you talked to Mike lately? We would like an update on his house and his FIL's house.
hugs, Brandi

I haven't spoken to Mike lately but the fire has calmed down on his side. The wind started blowing from the north again further helping Mike at his location.

Paid fire departments do ride on other departments fired trucks during a funeral. However, the person driving (and probably a captain or acting captain) is assigned to that station or department.

If VFDs go to a funeral they are still on call, they do not usually take the fire truck, but if they do they do they are inservice and respond to fires also. We have not had a firefighter die on duty since I've been out here. The VFD trucks out here cannot accommodate a casket. Every VFD is different. Bastrop VFD gets funding and has very good equipment and they have required training. Lee County has no required training and each station gets $2,000.00 a year to pay for utilities for the fire stations. Everything else the Firefighters have fundraisers to buy equipment and trucks.

(I was at a fire when I was the only one that showed up at the station and at the scene had a landowner squirting water. Of course I called for another station to help but sometimes doing nothing is incomprehensible.)

The Texas Forest Service at the beginning of the year gave several hundred grants to VFDs to buy trucks. We got one and ours is being built at this time and should be delivered in a few months.

Parry is doing the will of the voters by not raising taxes and by cutting spending, he cannot be blamed for having less money to spend.

In the Bastrop situation, Lee County responded with two of it's most capable fire trucks from Giddings, then Dimebox covered Giddings, Lincoln covered Dimebox, and Fedor covered Lincoln (and Fedor). (There were 3 other fires that Lee County responded to Monday)

Mutual aid response is at the request of the incident commander, not at the other way around.

For the volunteers to be turned away means that the fire has enough personnel on the scene.

The intent was good but I would have contacted my chief to contact my county's EMO to see if mutual aid was requested or needed.

 

[bindian]

I haven't spoken to Mike lately but the fire has calmed down on his side. The wind started blowing from the north again further helping Mike at his location.

Paid fire departments do ride on other departments fired trucks during a funeral. However, the person driving (and probably a captain or acting captain) is assigned to that station or department.

If VFDs go to a funeral they are still on call, they do not usually take the fire truck, but if they do they do they are inservice and respond to fires also. We have not had a firefighter die on duty since I've been out here. The VFD trucks out here cannot accommodate a casket. Every VFD is different. Bastrop VFD gets funding and has very good equipment and they have required training. Lee County has no required training and each station gets $2,000.00 a year to pay for utilities for the fire stations. Everything else the Firefighters have fundraisers to buy equipment and trucks.

(I was at a fire when I was the only one that showed up at the station and at the scene had a landowner squirting water. Of course I called for another station to help but sometimes doing nothing is incomprehensible.)

The Texas Forest Service at the beginning of the year gave several hundred grants to VFDs to buy trucks. We got one and ours is being built at this time and should be delivered in a few months.

Parry is doing the will of the voters by not raising taxes but by cutting spending, he cannot be blamed for having less money to spend.

In the Bastrop situation, Lee County responded with two of it's most capable fire trucks from Giddings, then Dimebox covered Giddings, Lincoln covered Dimebox, and Fedor covered Lincoln (and Fedor). (There were 3 other fires that Lee County responded to Monday)

Mutual aid response is at the request of the incident commander, not at the other way around.

For the volunteers to be turned away means that the fire has enough personnel on the scene.

The intent was good but I would have contacted my county's EMO to see if mutual aid was requested. Your territory is your area of responsibility first.

Thanks Don. I will try to call Mike tomorrow afternoon.
hugs, Brandi

 

[RobertN]

This is true of all departments. Although we all fight fire, the local districts around here all have different equipment, and SOP's. Still follow NFPA and all, but engines are different, SCBA's are different ect.

Re: funerals - We have a parade rig, also used for funerals. Our rigs went to the two funerals I mentioned previously. Other local districts backfilled our stations with their own people and engines. FWIW, we are a mixed paid and volunteer district.

You describe what I think the rest of us were saying in regards to responding to the scene without being called out.

Over and above all of that, I hope and wish for the best for the fire crews that are out there right now, and all those affected by the fires.

I had family loose everything on their ranch but the house 20 years ago, in a big fire by Grass Valley, Ca. The fire went thru, and then came back thru due to shifting weather. Their entire chicken ranch operation, their livelihood, gone. Fortunately, the chickens had shipped out a few weeks before, otherwise 40,000+ chickens would have been in the chicken house that burnt to the ground. That was part of why I got involved in firefighting.

Prayers to those on the fireline, and those folks who lost everything.

Every VFD is different.

Mutual aid response is at the request of the incident commander, not at the other way around.

For the volunteers to be turned away means that the fire has enough personnel on the scene.

The intent was good but I would have contacted my chief to contact my county's EMO to see if mutual aid was requested or needed.

 

[Western]

On the news last night, they showed a "pile" of donated water , I wish I could have got a picture. It looked to be about 10 pallets worth of miscellaneous brands that locals where able to scrounge up.

I understand SOP's very well, being ex LE, I have worked around many Texas VF's, most do it as a sense of duty and community.

I agree too, that it is generally a US thing, but Being slightly "slanted" since I'm a Texan, I think the South is just a little more "open" about "jumping in" and do concede that can be a problem for an IC.

I know our volunteer fire fighters are a grace saving asset, as is our paid dept's. I also know if you "ring the bell" get out of the way, folks are coming. Most of theses guy's have houses, farms, businesses and jobs and drop everything to go. I respect that and also understand that they have a vested interest in their community.

It is generally remarkable how our Fire departments, paid and volunteer will work together, I know some of the Dallas highly trained FF went to the Palo Pinto fire and worked along side the VF, now that is Kewl..

Maybe it is just a "rural" thing, because I'm sure it is common in many areas of the country.

 

[jinman]

Surely, the number of homes and businesses destroyed in these fires is the most costly in terms of money and human physical and emotional stress. However, with the widespread nature of the fires, just think of the electrical power infrastructure as well as some natural gas and water utilties that will have extensive damage. Of course, the electrical power lines and poles take the most damage. Unlike a storm that produces local problems, the electrical grid throughout Bastrop County will be completely destroyed in the areas of wildfire. This will have a huge impact on people's abilty to even start rebuilding. They can clean off thier lots and start over, but electrical power will need to be restored first or everyone will be working off of generators. It just seems like a double and triple whammy.

 

[txdon]

With 1400 homes destroyed this will also affect the tax base of Bastrop County. Would the destroyed homes still have to pay 2011 property tax for the 2/3 year? I know when I moved the cabin in July (two years ago) I had to pay the complete years tax on it.

 

[jonyyuma]

I bet they will still send a tax bill out? I almost had to have oxygen when they cut ours a little this year for Fallen value of real estate? I am sure they will makeup for it next year here?

 

[Bird]

With 1400 homes destroyed this will also affect the tax base of Bastrop County. Would the destroyed homes still have to pay 2011 property tax for the 2/3 year? I know when I moved the cabin in July (two years ago) I had to pay the complete years tax on it.

I'll be surprised if they don't get a tax bill for the complete year.

 

[jinman]

With 1400 homes destroyed this will also affect the tax base of Bastrop County. Would the destroyed homes still have to pay 2011 property tax for the 2/3 year? I know when I moved the cabin in July (two years ago) I had to pay the complete years tax on it.

Don, I suspect those folks will be on tab for the full year unless they sell the property. It's like sales tax on a car. If you buy a car and then total it a month later, you still have to pay sales tax again on your replacement. What is it they say? Death and taxes are the two things you can't escape. My guess is that many of the lesser valued properties with total losses may also have no insurance. Those folks may just walk away and leave Bastrop County to figure out what to do.

 

[jonyyuma]

I would certainly hope that most people, there had some insurance in effect..be certain, the rates will really jump now due to them paying out..instead of just collecting?

 

[charlz]

Typically your property value is set until it gets re-assessed. I would think they will get the full tax bill and have to protest it to get value re-assessed and pro-rated. Although, there might be a political move to give 'fire relief' or something where the county pro-actively re-assess fire damaged properties.

 

[wroughtn_harv]

I would certainly hope that most people, there had some insurance in effect..be certain, the rates will really jump now due to them paying out..instead of just collecting?

We already have some of the highest home insurance rates in the nation.

 

[Bird]

Typically your property value is set until it gets re-assessed. I would think they will get the full tax bill and have to protest it to get value re-assessed and pro-rated. Although, there might be a political move to give 'fire relief' or something where the county pro-actively re-assess fire damaged properties.

Every year since we've been here, the central appraisal district raised the assessed value on our home. And each year, I went down in person to talk to them and they lowered it, except last year. I've always gone early and if you can't get an appraisor to agree to a number, you can appeal to a hearing board, but of course there's a time limit on filing the appeal. Last year I had a knee replaced, the news said home values in my town went down 3% but they jumped my appraisal up again, and I didn't go talk to anyone until after the deadline to appeal. So since they knew I couldn't file a formal appeal, they didn't change it; kept it high. Now this year they lowered it just a little, but still more than places like zillow.com say it's worth.

And like Harvey said, Texas already has some of the highest insurance premiums in the nation, but after this drought and the fires, I expect both insurance premiums and tax rates to go up.

 

[two_bit_score]

The deadline to file a property tax appraisal protest in Texas has expired. They are usually completed by the end of July so the rolls can be certified and the entities can start their budget process in August - September.

I don't know if the law provides anything for adjustments as the result of disasters after the rolls are certified.