Buying Advice Texas cab or no cab? (towing limit)

[jrbarnard]

Having a good dealer nearby is worth a lot. Being able to drop by and pickup filters, shredder blades, and the rest of the consumables often is the difference between getting something done this weekend vs. sometime after the parts come in the mail.

You are pretty close to me and the dealers that I was impressed with when I started my hunt were Kubota (great tractors but a little pricey on the one that I was looking at), Kioti (Paige Tractor and the dealer in Bryan), and the LS dealer in south Austin (did not have what I was looking for in stock and I was up against an end of the year deadline). I also would not rule out New Holland - they sell their version of the LS as a Boomer and I have seen a lot of them out pulling mowers. TYM (looked at them and was not impressed by the local dealer network and parts availability - they had to order in pretty much everything) recently bought Branson and it is not often that consumers win after a big M&A deal. I have heard good and bad about the local Mahindra dealers, some of the smaller Mitsubishi made machines look nice, but the two local dealerships that I have been in did not feel like a real tractor dealer with shelves and shelves of spare parts, more like overgrown mower dealers. Good luck in your hunt.

Great input, Mickey. I was worried about the LS dealer in Austin as most things usually come with a lot higher price tag when you go INto Austin, vs buying outside of them. Kubota, I have rented one a couple times and have a couple neighbors that have them and they seemed to be awful light and pretty...flimsy? Again, with a warranty... I take all that with a grain of salt, but was thinking a LS or maybe Branson might be different.. dunno. Still doing research with all you fine people I also heard Ewald in Cedar Creek or Del Rio, whatever that is, is high priced (again, I think due to Austin) and one guy at work bought like a 9k mower/tractor (whatever that thing is... lol) and they did not really take care of him when he had an issue and then wanted to trade it in. That may be one-sided, but, still... it's feedback.

Not sure who the Branson person is around us, but I totally agree... hoping to look more local, but willing to deal further away to get it done in a good price range. Back when I first started looking.. heck.. that was like 2 years ago... the TYM looked like an option, but none of them around that I know of so.. heh.. and the 45hp looked to be the smallest for a cab and that was simply too much for my needs.

Mahindra is a solid brand, but with a warranty, the price will dictate the brand for the most part. I know, maybe not the best way to look at it.. but I will temper that with good input from knowledgeable people and hopefully taking a friend with me that knows more about tractors to help me see the good and bad points of whatever I look at.

All in all, not ruling anything out. The wife is "on-board" with me getting one, just have to see if we can swing the financing and then see what we can afford from that and what is available.

Russ


p.s. I just noticed you are from Dime Box... my dad grew up in Old Dime Box (lived on a farm part-time with an uncle there I think)... even had a CB call-sign "Old Dime Box" heh

 

[MickeyDBC]

Great input, Mickey. I was worried about the LS dealer in Austin as most things usually come with a lot higher price tag when you go INto Austin, vs buying outside of them. Kubota, I have rented one a couple times and have a couple neighbors that have them and they seemed to be awful light and pretty...flimsy? Again, with a warranty... I take all that with a grain of salt, but was thinking a LS or maybe Branson might be different.. dunno. Still doing research with all you fine people I also heard Ewald in Cedar Creek or Del Rio, whatever that is, is high priced (again, I think due to Austin) and one guy at work bought like a 9k mower/tractor (whatever that thing is... lol) and they did not really take care of him when he had an issue and then wanted to trade it in. That may be one-sided, but, still... it's feedback.

Not sure who the Branson person is around us, but I totally agree... hoping to look more local, but willing to deal further away to get it done in a good price range. Back when I first started looking.. heck.. that was like 2 years ago... the TYM looked like an option, but none of them around that I know of so.. heh.. and the 45hp looked to be the smallest for a cab and that was simply too much for my needs.

Mahindra is a solid brand, but with a warranty, the price will dictate the brand for the most part. I know, maybe not the best way to look at it.. but I will temper that with good input from knowledgeable people and hopefully taking a friend with me that knows more about tractors to help me see the good and bad points of whatever I look at.

All in all, not ruling anything out. The wife is "on-board" with me getting one, just have to see if we can swing the financing and then see what we can afford from that and what is available.

Russ


p.s. I just noticed you are from Dime Box... my dad grew up in Old Dime Box (lived on a farm part-time with an uncle there I think)... even had a CB call-sign "Old Dime Box" heh

Kubotas are price high but they are pretty much the gold standard in compact tractors and are making a big mark in the utility sized and up. Very good machines. There is a TYM dealer outside of Caldwell, but they are very small and had just switched from LS to TYM - I like a little more stability. There is a Branson dealer in Grainger but I drove by the place and they were tiny. Only saw used there when I drove by on a Sunday. There is one outside of Temple that looks decent, but it involves driving on I-35 which causes me to say a lot of bad words. Might be worth a couple of phone calls.

 

[YLee Kioti]

You should go and check out the Kiotis and Yanmars over at Paige Tractor (about 25 miles from you - take 21 to 290 and go about five miles). I have bought two machines from them (Kioti tractor and a Kubota excavator) and have been very happy with them. They were the cheapest by $500 on the tractor and their implement prices are as low as I have seen anywhere. Been very happy dealing with them.

I second that. It was worth it for me to make the 85 mile drive.

 

[jrbarnard]

I called Jordan at Paige Tractors. He is going to throw some numbers together.

I just hope I can fit a cab with a/c into my budget.. heh... I know I can fit "a" tractor... but to have a/c... man, opens up a world of fun.. heh

R

 

[two_bit_score]

Thanks a ton. That helps a lot.

I do not mind getting a small tractor. I really would use the heck out of it, especially if I could haul it with my current truck. See, that is my biggest concern, if I go to big, I cannot haul it or cannot haul it easily or safely.

So, I am limited by a "window" of availability, more than anything. Too small, you get a cab but no A/C. Too big, you get it all but need a bigger trailer and thus bigger truck to haul it.

So, trying to find that right "sweet spot" and not get rooked on my first tractor.

So many choices

Thanks guys

Russ

Just get the bigger tractor. Build a big building at the farm to lock it up in. Get a good mower for the home place. That way you have what you need in place and usable for what you need it for.

Start looking for a bigger truck and trailer. You will need that too at some point. It's Texas.


TBS

 

[MickeyDBC]

I called Jordan at Paige Tractors. He is going to throw some numbers together.

I just hope I can fit a cab with a/c into my budget.. heh... I know I can fit "a" tractor... but to have a/c... man, opens up a world of fun.. heh

R

Jordan is who I dealt with when I bought mine. Easy to deal with and a good guy.

 

[Jchonline]

I was just helping my Father hunt for a tractor this past week. Here is the list of dealerships around your area (we live in Mabank). He has 100 acres of hay/cattle land.

We are looking at a 60 ish HP cab utility tractor. Visited Athens Tractor (Kubota) and United (formerly agpower - Deere). They look to have solid dealerships and service, but we dont have any direct experience. If it helps, Sam at Athens tractor is a Navy man. I doubt he will do you wrong.


1. Pineco - Mahindra
2. Smith and Sons - Massey Ferguson
3. Athens tractor - Kubota
4. Nortex tractor - new holland and Mahindra
5. Lowe tractor - Kubota
6. United ag and turf - Deere
7. McKinley farms - used Deere and Kubota
8. Big Tex - Branson
9. VN tractors - TYM
10. Deen Kubota
11. Alba Pittsburg tractor Kubota
12. Sandy land equipment-Ls tractor




Now about that towing.... you will need to figure out the final weight of the tractor+implements your truck can pull. It might seem easy but there are multiple weights and ratios to consider.

1. GVWR - you have 2 vehicles to consider. So you will have a GVWR for the truck (curb weight + cargo+passengers). Then a GVWR for the trailer (trailer weight + all cargo). Make sure these are within limits.
2. Tow weight - be sure your hitch can pull the GVWR of your trailer (trailer weight + all cargo loaded)
3. GCWR - Gross Combined weight ratio. GVWR of truck + GVWR of trailer loaded. Your truck will have a rating for this.
4. Max tongue weight - usually this is 10% or so of the max tow weight. Just dont get more trailer than you can tow.

The surprise here is that a new F150 V8 gas with a 9900GVWR trailer can really only tow a total GVWR trailer of 9100 lbs. If the trailer is 2500 lbs, you are down to 6600 lbs of load on the trailer. It is VERY easy to get a tractor over that weight once you add the loader, rear tire ballast/weights, and rear implements. My dad was surprised at how little he could safely tow. Others may have more experience, this was just based on my napkin math.

 

[vvanders]

+1 to everything above. The smallest cab tractor that LS makes starts at 3600lbs and most are in the 4k-4.5k range. That's before you add wheel weights or filled tires. Loader is going to weight ~1500-1800lbs so you very quickly get to that 6k mark without even having an implement on the tractor.

Been doing similar numbers to see what I can fit on our 7k trailer and is adds up really quick.

 

[jrbarnard]

Well, been doing a lot of thinking... not done yet heh.

So far, it really comes down to:

1 - How much I want to pay

2 - Is the difference worth the cost?

I got quotes on the following:

LS XR3140HC - with 6' box blade and 6' rotary cutter - $29,765-ish
LS XR3135C same implements - $27,469

No trailer, no backhoe, no auger.

Branson 3725 HST with cab, a/c, loader, 6ft brush hog, 6ft box blade, no trailer, no auger, no backhoe - $29,995

Branson 2400H with trailer, backhoe, loader, 4ft box blade, 4ft brush hog, auger (i.e. all the toys) - $22,695

A friend keeps beating me over the head to get a 6ft brush hog only (finishing mower)... not sure if anything below 28hp can pull a 6ft and not tear it up.

The Kioti CK3510 with just a loader $31,900

Nothing else added

The Yanmar YT235C with loader - $33,700

Nothing added.

The mower, they say, is another 1600 for each.

So, I think the Yanmar and Kioti are out of the running, just too expensive with too little to be competitive, for my needs.

So, comes down to how much I really want the CAB....vs, totally self-sufficient.

Thanks guys.

Russ

 

[Jchonline]

I drove the LS, that would be my pick from your choices. Go drive them and see what you like.

 

[Complete Turf Care]

One more thing to consider with cab vs. open station is using your phone.

For me, I run my own small business and could not answer phone calls from an open station. I have spent about 200 hours on one tractor and about 50 on the other tractor this year (both have cabs). I can easily take calls and conduct business from the cab. No way I could do this in an open station tractor.

And, I'm in South Louisiana and the heat here is just brutal now. I have also spent many hours working in the rain with mine. I won't buy a tractor without a cab again.

 

[jrbarnard]

Thanks, JC. I plan to do that, just getting my ducks in a row before I waste their time going in. I agree, until ya sit in the seat, the choice is just numbers. At this point...the down payments are not really that big a deal... and the payments are not so far off as to discount anything.

The questions I will have to ask, after driving each, is:

1 - is A/C worth having to ask someone to go with me to tow it home till I get a trailer?

2 - Is A/C worth having to rent or borrow extra attachments like the backhoe and auger?


$2,300 vs $2,900 down payment is not too huge a deal and then payments of $302 vs $400 is..again, not a huge deal breaker....so

Just something I gotta figure out heh.. but, like you said... sitting in it may be the last piece of the puzzle.

I appreciate you all 'talking' me through al of it. Will post photos when I finally break free and make a decision

Russ

 

[MickeyDBC]

Attachments can be picked up off of Craigslist and local sales as a good deal pops up and you need them, but if you want a backhoe buy it with the tractor installed so that you don't have to kluge something together later. All of the dealers that I talked to included free delivery, but if you needed work other than a recall done transport was on your dime. Unless you get a little baby tractor, it is very easy to have the weight of the tractor, an implement or two, and the trailer go over 10K pounds, so you are pretty much doomed anyway to having to hit up your buddies for a ride. For me, the difference between having AC vs not is the difference between getting stuff done all day long on the tractor vs. not. Just too hot during the summer and I am too old and fat to deal with it.

 

[jrbarnard]

Okay, so figuring out the "true" towing capacity:

on the door panel, it says

GAWR Front: 3700lb
GAWR Rear: 3900lb
GVWR: 6800lb


I go to a RV site and punch in my VIN and it tells me towing capacity is 4510.

The door sticker says the above.

Then I look up the VIN again on a different site and get this:


Gross Axle Wt Rating - Front 3700 lbs 3700.0 min 3700.0 max
Gross Axle Wt Rating - Rear 3900 lbs 3900.0 min 3900.0 max
Curb Weight - Front 2760 lbs 2760.0 min 2760.0 max
Curb Weight - Rear 2264 lbs 2264.0 min 2264.0 max
Gross Vehicle Weight Rating Cap 6900, 6950, 6800 lbs 6800.0 min 6950.0 max
Fuel Economy Est-Combined 20 (Est) MPG
EPA Fuel Economy Est - City 17 (Est) MPG
EPA Fuel Economy Est - Hwy 25 (Est) MPG
Gross Combined Wt Rating 13800, 13750, 9850 lbs 9850.0 min 13800.0 max
Dead Weight Hitch - Max Trailer Wt. 8070, 7860, 4510 lbs 4510.0 min 8070.0 max
Dead Weight Hitch - Max Tongue Wt. 807, 786, 451 lbs 451.0 min 807.0 max
Wt Distributing Hitch - Max Trailer Wt. 8070, 7860, 4510 lbs 4510.0 min 8070.0 max
Wt Distributing Hitch - Max Tongue Wt. 807, 786, 451 lbs 451.0 min 807.0 max
Maximum Trailering Capacity 8070, 7860, 4510 lbs 4510.0 min 8070.0 max

So, like usual, cannot swing a dead cat without hitting a different opinion.

Either way, I will also look at sway bars and stabilizers, if available, like when I towed a camper...if it works, anything to make it safer.

Going to make time this weekend to go try to look at a few models.

Thanks guys.
Russ

 

[Jchonline]

Okay, so figuring out the "true" towing capacity:

on the door panel, it says

GAWR Front: 3700lb
GAWR Rear: 3900lb
GVWR: 6800lb


I go to a RV site and punch in my VIN and it tells me towing capacity is 4510.

The door sticker says the above.

Then I look up the VIN again on a different site and get this:


Gross Axle Wt Rating - Front 3700 lbs 3700.0 min 3700.0 max
Gross Axle Wt Rating - Rear 3900 lbs 3900.0 min 3900.0 max
Curb Weight - Front 2760 lbs 2760.0 min 2760.0 max
Curb Weight - Rear 2264 lbs 2264.0 min 2264.0 max
Gross Vehicle Weight Rating Cap 6900, 6950, 6800 lbs 6800.0 min 6950.0 max
Fuel Economy Est-Combined 20 (Est) MPG
EPA Fuel Economy Est - City 17 (Est) MPG
EPA Fuel Economy Est - Hwy 25 (Est) MPG
Gross Combined Wt Rating 13800, 13750, 9850 lbs 9850.0 min 13800.0 max
Dead Weight Hitch - Max Trailer Wt. 8070, 7860, 4510 lbs 4510.0 min 8070.0 max
Dead Weight Hitch - Max Tongue Wt. 807, 786, 451 lbs 451.0 min 807.0 max
Wt Distributing Hitch - Max Trailer Wt. 8070, 7860, 4510 lbs 4510.0 min 8070.0 max
Wt Distributing Hitch - Max Tongue Wt. 807, 786, 451 lbs 451.0 min 807.0 max
Maximum Trailering Capacity 8070, 7860, 4510 lbs 4510.0 min 8070.0 max

So, like usual, cannot swing a dead cat without hitting a different opinion.

Either way, I will also look at sway bars and stabilizers, if available, like when I towed a camper...if it works, anything to make it safer.

Going to make time this weekend to go try to look at a few models.

Thanks guys.
Russ

Ya figuring out towing is a pain. I had to rebuild my truck on the Ford website (luckily it is a 2018 and that is still available) to get the bare curb weight.

The GAWR is the amount the axle can hold. I didn’t add those in my post above, most times they aren’t the overall limiting factor. However I suppose they could be in certain cases (GN over the rear axle maybe)?

Sometimes the best way to get your curb weight is to take it to a scale. Passenger and cargo weights are easy to figure out.

Towing weight will be dependent on a few things, including the hitch you have on the vehicle. There may be a sticker on your rear hitch...get a flashlight and go hunting!

If 4100 lbs is correct (that seems very low) then remember that includes the weight of the trailer.